Virtue/Moir #24: We Like it Hot

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Proustable, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they did spin all the season with three basic postions. I cant say nothing about "4 different variations of positions". Like i understand - first Scott position, Scott and Tessa in second half of spin and Tessa posotion in last part.
    Tech pannel did mistake, because this is NOT CoSp, but IS Sp.
    And for CoSp if they didnt made 3 revolutions in firts position - it will be level 1. But in Sp they did 2 and its OK.
  2. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Maybe they thought they were about to change a foot and didn't. I am so confused. I am pretty sure this is a spin and not a combination spin. Still, the level one would only make sense if they ignored the variations and only counted the rotations, right? After all, the only difference between a spin and a spin combination is that change of foot. So, let's suppose they thought this was a combo spin, meaning they noticed a change of foot, levels do not change much except for Level 1, which requires three (not six, sorry) rotations. They didn't consider the variations then? What on earth?
  3. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    No. For Sp they need to made two full ratations in difficult positions, when for CoSp - 3 full rotation in difficult postitions. This is Sp thats why V-M did 2 full rotations and this will be enough for level at least 3 if they didnt count some of there difficult position, but not 1.
  4. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Pani. I thought you needed to do three full rotations during Sp. Man, this is a glaring error from the judges, unless they noticed something we did not. I have watched it time and time and again and I do not see anything wrong with it. Can anyone break down the positions? I know there are three, all basic, correct? What about the variations?

    For Level 4:
    And now I can't remember if there's a change of direction. Is there? I don't think so.
  5. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    There is no change in direction.

    When I watched it, it appeared that at different points in the spin, both Tessa and Scott possibly had a skate that ever-so-slightly grazed the ice. That would have lost them levels right there. That said, the fact that the spin was called a combination spin is a glaring error in the calling.
  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    How could you change spin direction if you stay on the same foot or didnt put other foot on ice?

    aka_gerbil
    This wasnt postitions mistake. All was because they named this spin CoSp - for it they need to do 3 full rotations. But for reall spin Sp they need only 2. Thats all. So it was big caller mistake. And its sad V-M team didnt notice this. Maybe they really miss Igor in Canton.
  7. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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    They've made music changes?
    Where? I didn't notice. :confused:
  8. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  9. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    OK, so maybe they touched the ice as aka_gerbil. Now, wouldn't that invalidate the element altogether?
  10. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    But this was tech pannel mistake and now they change it. So you trust to this level? :D OK, hope this was there last level 1 in competitve skating ;)
  11. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. I am just trying to make sense of the level 1. So, if they entered it as a spin (and marked it as such), what are the requirements for a level 1?
  12. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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  13. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I understand that the problem at Nationals was not the number of variations, but either that the spin was named as Combination Spin, or something else (as it looks now). I was reading the rules because I wanted to understand the possible reasons for this, but then I noticed the part about "4 variations", and just started wondering about that. Because they clearly have just 3 difficult variations of 3 basic positions (first camel, then sit, and then upright - one variation from each position). Just one more thing to be confused about (if someone more knowledgeable doesn't explain this).


    Edit: I read the rules here - http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-204786-222009-173276-0-file,00.pdf (Spins part starts at page 22, but explanations about levels are from page 26 to 28).
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  14. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    You know, I'm not entirely sure. Good question.
  15. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    But changes in protocols at Nationals this season look werid :D
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  16. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I liked it too. It adds much more contrast between the Adagio and the Torero section that comes immediately afterwards.
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Read Eurosport will show 4CC :eek:
  18. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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  19. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Unbelievable :eek:. Do they intend to show it on Russian Eurosport too (because that's the only one that I can see on TV)?
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  20. Fort

    Fort New Member

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    About as basic as it gets -- three rotations. So it was a matter of them losing levels, through a series of mistakes, I guess, which is a lot more complicated. And I just rewatched the spin and I still can't tell why. From the handbook:

    Adjustments to Levels
    1. If the spinning movement has been started and one or both partners is/are still on two feet after half a rotation, the Level
    shall be reduced by one Level if one partner starts on two feet and by two Levels if both partners start on two feet.
    2. If a loss of control occurs after the Dance Spin has commenced, resulting in one of the following mistakes:
     additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s) by one partner,
     one partner off the ice without sustaining action,
     both partners not holding,
    for up to half a rotation, and the Dance Spin continues according to Dance Spin requirements after the mistake, the Level
    shall be reduced by 1 Level per mistake. But if the mistake lasts for more than half a rotation, this shall be considered as
    an interruption and additional principles of calling shall apply.
    Notes:
     this provision does not apply to staying on two feet during the change of foot in a Combination Spin. However, the
    Level shall be reduced by 1 Level per partner staying on two feet more than half a rotation;
     this provision does not apply to one partner off the ice with a sustaining action which qualifies this move as a
    Dance Lift.
    3. If one or both partners do not change foot (to the other foot) in a Combination Spin, it will be identified as Spin Level 1.
  21. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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    Where did you read it?
  22. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    That's great news.
  23. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I think they made a bad call. At one point I thought maybe it was a data entry mistake. For example if everyone else had done a CoSp that they just mistakenly continued the same entry. But looking at the protocols others also did a Sp instead of a CoSp so that can't be it. If the caller assumed they were doing a CoSp for whatever reason then that might make sense for the Level 1 call based on the bolded above. I noticed someone asked Pj on twitter if she could find out so hopefully she will. If she can't find out then I think it's clearly a mistake because if the panel didn't make a mistake you would think they would let someone know where they lost the levels.
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Read abo this at ussian message board. People saw advertisement on TV.
  25. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    Sometimes I wish we were privy to judges' feedback. I'm sure Tessa and Scott will receive a more in-depth explanation from the judges and hopefully it won't happen again. It's certainly puzzling but I don't think we need to worry too much about it.

    I keep watching the FD on my PVR and every time my mind is blown by Carmen and it never ceases to amaze me how much it has evolved. I can't wait to see it at 4CC and Worlds. Even without seeing any changes that D/W have made to their programs, I cannot fathom how they could beat V/M, assuming they get the same technical levels.
  26. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I´m more curious than worried. I'm sure Marina, Tessa and Scott know the reason behind the call by now. I just want to know :lol:
  27. Fort

    Fort New Member

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    I admit I'm a little frustrated, if only because I can't tell why it's a level one... I mean, I certainly can't judge these things myself, but if I am given a level to work with and either the rules or a commentator's comments, usually I can at least see why. This, I'm just confused and wanting to improve my own knowledge. I'd think there must be some sort of reason, because they bothered to go back and fix the calling from the CoSp to Sp, but there was no level changed, and so I figure there must be a justification there. But we'll probably never know why.

    On the other hand, regardless of the scoring details, it was their best outing of Carmen so far, I thought.
  28. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    I can't get enough of watching their programs from Canadians! They take my breath away!
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  29. rvi5

    rvi5 New Member

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    There were two coaches with little dogs in their bags? I know Seguin's coach had a little Terrier in her bag at the Kiss & Cry.
  30. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    This dog was with Marina even in Nice :D
  31. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Me too :swoon:
  32. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think it is safe to say this was their best outing of the season. Two amazing skates.

    ETA: Perhaps their two best outings since the Olympics?
  33. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I think in Nice they were amazing too. SD was :swoon:And they were so fast.
    I hope they save the best for WCh. It will be too high pressure on them.
  34. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I mean they were truly solid and bang on in both performances.
  35. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Overall, I really liked V/M's performances at Nats. The only disappointing thing were the ridiculous articles churned out by the "journalists" covering the event.
  36. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know. I felt that was true in all disciplines, not just ice dance. R.I.P. Randy Starkman :(
  37. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Some of articles was werid.
    Just watched ECh SD. Dont know, i didnt feel someone was better, then P-B and i miss them :(
    And it will be hard for W-P back to there top with such hih marks for B-S and I-K :(
    But i also didnt think this team could be close to T-S, sorry, maybe i am too uber. :D
  38. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Watching the SD again, I hope they change the ending. The "almost-kiss" is too cheesy. If they want to face each other, the ending they had at the beginning of the season was better.
  39. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    For me most importamt they will not return one from GPF :lol:
  40. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Polka is cheesy :D I think it fits with the new playfulness of the SD. The ending at the beginning of the season (not the GPF ending which I hated the most) suited their original SD theme..