Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Proustable, Jan 20, 2013.
What do you mean, Shayii?
It doesn't bother me. I do have a Twitter and a Tumblr and I have read nasty comments, but what can I do? I do not pay attention to them. What we cannot do is make the mistake of generalizing and assume that "the skating community hate Virtue and Moir now". You are playing right into their hands if you do that. All this negativity and bad energy hurts you more than them. So, really, ignore them.
I'm not sure how to explain it Pani. There was something almost spiritual about it (I don't want to sound cheesy but that's the word that came to me). The emotion coming from the both of them I just felt it because they felt it; it's like they completely immersed themselves into this performance and forgot about everything that happened earlier. I'm sorry I don't know if what I just said made any sense.
ETA: Golightly, ignoring is the best but it can be hard sometimes. I actually don't have tumblr so I didn't see what's going on there. After reading a few comments on twitter yesterday I didn't go back. And I know forums to stay away from that are anti-V/M. What I wasn't expecting were some of the comments on YT and articles, but I will try to forget about it.
Thank you! Very inteteresting. I need to re-watch it
I don't see that Marina has to compromise at all in choreographing for her top two teams and they both know it. Fortunately for her, both have very different strengths and styles and she will be sure to create programs for next year that play to these strengths. D/W will have something fast, dynamic and powerful, V/M will have something with more finesse (and let's face it, some kind if sexual tension ).
Good point gerbil.
IMO since Vancouver there are several myths that have been widely accepted as the truth. I guess it's true that the more something is repeated the more it is seen to be true.
IIRC, the Canton teams had to make changes to reach their levels last season as well when Igor was still part of the team. Also didn't the Shibs also have issues this season? They followed Igor from Canton.
I've never believed that only Igor knows how to teach technical skating. Yes, he is one of the best techincal coaches in the field but he isn't alone.
I also agree that D&W and V&M should not have the same coaches. Tamara Moskvina was one of the only coaches I've ever seen who really seemed to manage to give her best equally to each team she worked with. There was never any discussion about the appearance that she favored one team over another. Whether it's true that Marina and Igor favored one team over another I suppose is left up to each persons interpretation. I'm one of those who felt that it certainly looked as if each of the then Canton coaches had different loyalites and last season it seemed that D&W were a priority for both.
It's more than likely that both V&M and D&W will go into and finish out next season still with Marina but I just don't think that arrangement is best for either team. But what the solution is? I have no idea aside from one of those teams changing coaches.
Carmen, the Shibs are still with Marina this year, but they started struggling last year when Igor was still around.
I agree that both teams will likely finish out their careers with Marina, but it's definitely not best for either team. Changing coaches is the best way to fix that, but given the lack in numbers of elite ice dance coaches, there aren't many/any other places to go.
The Shibs are still with Marina. It's Chock/Bates that left Canton to work with Igor and they've benefit from the extra attention (and politicking, probably) they must be receiving from Igor, since they've seemed to have surpassed the Shibs. They're probably his #2 team behind C/L? They were probably around 4/5th while Igor and Marina were still working together. I'm just speculating though. They were a really new team so it could just be that they're just starting to get more comfortable skating together.
I dont see why D-W need to leav Marina - all look OK for them, they fised there levels, wish was a problem at last season WCh, they look happy and healthy.
Tessa and Scott... Maybe they feel pressure much more. Not from rivals, but from super attention to them after coaches split up. They start working for the season late, changed choreoin summer, then had so many problems with levels during all season. So look like they could have some questions to there team. But look like Scott never will leav Marina.
So i prefer stop thinking about this and just focusing on Tessa health and there joy from skating. Honestly i feel a little upset if they will choose something more traditional next season, but hope they will be happy with next year programs, like they are happy with "Carmen".
So many people support them in home town. Sure a lot off them will wear yellow t-shirts and i wish T-S will made gift to this people - show spectacular "Carmen" with a lot off emotions and power
elle and gerbil, thanks for the correction about the Shibs.
I need to do some research it appears but one reason why C&B might be doing so well under Igor is that the Shibs seem to have stagnated (at times I almost feel as if they have gone a tad backwards) and that Igor doesn't have a large group of American skaters he is teaching who are going after the same postition. Or even just one rival team that they are trading places with.
This will probably make everyone cringe but after seeing what they did with Carmen I would LOVE to see them skate to Romeo and Juliet (Prokofiev). The music is fantastic and who better to play that couple than these two. Maybe an exhibition someday. I just really love what they were able to achieve with Carmen and think they could do a R&J program to make me forget A&P skated to it (and I loved the visuals in their program).
Moskvina is a brilliant coach of course, but it must be much easier to juggle top pairs. Landing jumps and throws is a lot more objective measure than hitting your levels. Clearly, a team like B&S is not going to wuzrob themselves for a performance like they had at the 1998 Olympics, but ice dancers rarely have that many major mistakes. Did K&D and B&S ever both go clean in a competition (as D&W and V&M have so many times)? I think the feeling at the time was that B&S had better skating skills and choreography and would win if clean, but if both teams don't usually skate clean at the same time, then it becomes more about competing with themselves to do their best than about worrying what programs the coach gave them.
I would be fascinated to hear some insight on the psychological differences between ice dancers who have always trained with their rivals (V&M) and ice dancers who have, at least at some point, been their coach's unquestionably top team (A&P, for example). V&M have always had rivals. B&A were there until 2008, and then in 2009 V&M were beaten by D&W at 4CC. They never had a time when they weren't competing directly with training mates.
Sometimes I wonder if they ever have the feeling that they cannot have complete honesty between them and the coaching team. For example, did Tessa have to downplay her injuries because her rivals were right there? If they hadn't been there, would she have approached things differently with Marina and Igor? Did it help her to put the pain out of her mind in 2009-10 season because she had to be "on" every day in practice? What about when they have quite normal feelings of lacking confidence in their programs and performances? Do they feel like if they say that in front of D&W it will motivate D&W to know that V&M are beatable? Or when they have to change choreography, do they feel like the advice they get from Marina may be a double edged sword because she doesn't care who wins? I just find it all so interesting how it could feel completely different for a team who feels like their coach is 100% unwaveringly in their corner and does not want anyone else to win ever.
Really good points, Cherub
Love is not a victory march will be the new title, is it ok for you? although i miss its connection with Tessa and Scott
It's a lyric from "Hallelujah".
Could someone tsrat new thread? I like this title
yep, but sounds a little out of place or pessimistic, hehe. "Road to home" is somehow more epic. i'll use this!
BTW, I just wanted to add that their performance to Halleluja was on totally another level this time as far as I could see.......It was ethereal and other-worldly and so beautifully skated. I was totally mesmerized like never before watching it. What a great come-back
I firmly believe they will be just awsome at Worlds. I really do have faith in them!