Virtue/Moir #24: We Like it Hot

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Proustable, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Heard to be second in war-up is ideal place. But i dont think its good for T-S to skate just after D-W.
    Remember in Nice they skated last after I-K, when D-W were ealy in group. It was good.
    Did you really think D-W speed were so much better, then V-M? They gave D-W on 0,5 higher marks for transitions and CC. I disagree with this. Especially because commentatro on British Eurosport said V-M didnt made more then 2 steps in the same position. Isnt this show difficulty of this SD? All this details, moves - its not transitions?
    Then again - D-W not so fast, when they need to do so many jumpes and hoops, so i am not sure i agree with you.
    Plus i am sure judges will not give higher transitions and choreo marks in FD, then in SD, especially i am sure they will be such low, then D-W marks in SD. And "O, Esmeralda" with open mouthes and generick choreo, wich all saw three years in row will get 10th, when "Carmen" will be lucky enough if it get 9,75 in some PCS.
    So thats why i am really impressed with what Tessa and Scott are doing, that they could show strongest SD in this season at international level, get personal best score for SD. Great job, guys!
    Its too long untill FD :( I hope T-S will have great rest before FD and will show there best in FD, like they could did in SD. And will not pay attention to D-W and there marks. They are alwayse overscored, so what a big deal? :p
  2. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Here's the thing about speed and skating skills. V/M were incredibly fast last night--without sacrificing any of the other qualities their skating possesses. Speed was in no way an issue. Beyond that though, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, although it feels that way at times, speed is not the only factor in skating skills. So many other things are meant to be considered under that category--things that V/M unquestionably do better than D/W. Because of that, V/M should hands down be marked higher than D/W when it comes to skating skills.

    Also, while D/W are known for being speed demons, I've always thought they weren't as smooth over the ice as V/M and that they don't cover as much ice with each stroke. They're stroking more and not as smooth, which means they're working faster, and I think gives them the illusion that they're a bit faster than they actually are.
  3. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I don't like the ending pose either. Seems really forced or something.

    My only other nitpick is they were off unison at the end of the straightline. I wonder why they only got level 3 on the second polka pattern?
  4. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I am very pleasantly surprised how close the PCS is given V&M's bad start order for the SD. :lol:
  5. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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  6. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    ITA. Speed was the only possible explanation for the marks, but I agree it is not everything and IMO V&M should have an advantage in skating skills over everyone else.
  7. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I've always felt D&W sacrifice good line, unison and polish for speed. I don't like it. Watching V&M and D&W back to back, it's really noticeable how much superior V&M's line and extension are. I couldn't really tell a difference in speed. One thing that stands out to me though is that IMO V&M have a much better looking and larger polka pattern than D&W.

    I can see D&W getting higher PCS in Choreo, because it really is a clever piece of choreography, but I don't agree with the other PCS being higher. I know a lot of people love D&W's SD but at times I almost find it painful to watch because they are so UNballetic and yet are skating to a ballet. It really stands out with Charlie in particular to me....his leg looks bent half the time when he's extending behind him and there's no stretch in his foot. And there are times where I find Meryl's arms and hands unpolished/unballetic.

    I thought Marina looked quite nervous before D&W's marks came up.
  8. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    The ending looks rushed to me too. I'm afraid someone's going to get their nose smacked and end up with a nose-bleed. I wish they'd go back to the pose they had at the beginning of the season.
  9. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I've watched both programs back to back a number of times now and I think V&M outskated D&W. I personally think the judges were generous with D&W in comparison. I also have an issue with the whole speed debate. D&W create speed with lots of running, hops and pulling but compare the size of the pattern dance between the two teams and see who creates more speed. I think the changes V&M have made to the SD were the right ones and I think more in keeping with the spirit of the music Hopkins composed (if you saw the video of him in the audience listening to his music being played it's much more in the spirit of the newest SD version).

    I actually prefer V&M's SD now to Giselle for the first time this season.
  10. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    It is a great piece of choreo. It actually occurs to me that I would love to see what V&M, particularly Tessa, could do with it. :shuffle: I have never felt the opposite (wanted to see how D&W would skate a V&M piece).
  11. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice to see what Tessa and Scott could do with a ballet program. Don't think we┬┤ll get the chance before they retire.
  12. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I have given up questioning the judging. Now I am just allowing myself to watch each program and enjoy it best I can. Time is running out.

    I dont know what I will do at worlds. I hope I dont close my eyes!
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  13. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Do the judges see this though?

    To me it seems like D&W's FD has a lot of open skating/stroking into elements, a lot of times where they are apart from each other posing or just in hand-to-hand hold. The overall effect is that they do not skate close together.
  14. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Word. I take issue with the GOE's on the polka patterns because V/M and D/W both had 1's on both patterns, but the quality of V/M's patterns is infinitely better than that of D/W.

    I was just telling someone else nearly the exact same thing. I think that the current version of V/M's SD has just as good of choreography as D/W's SD, but D/W's SD choreography is quite brilliant. (So, I guess I'm saying both SD's are brilliant.) Like you though, I find it painful to watch D/W's SD because of the issues with lack of extension, unison, and line. You put it perfectly in that it's a ballet piece, but they are so UNballetic.
  15. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    On to more important things -- I have a feeling Scott will be gelling his hair again for the FD. :p :wuzrobbed His new haircut won't work in fierce!Carmen.
  16. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully then for Worlds that Christmas haircut will have grown out a bit :D
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thats what i alwayse try to explane - how both teams create speed. V-M, like a lot off people talking, create speed from nothing (like a lot off canadians skaters doing).
    I remeber in 2010 in Torino during Gala exibitions, D-W did the same element with Kerrs in the end. Kers did 2-3 steps and get speed they need for made element, when D-W need to go on circule and did 6 quik steps to generate the speed the same with Kerrs. But nobody else talked about this so i thought i am wrong.

    Just thought. because any other didnt give them 10th :D

    But only V-M ubers see this. So i think rules was changed and we cant understand nothing.

    Meryl look very unhappy with marks and nervouse before marks came up. Did she think they must have 80 at big ISU event, like on Nationals?

    I have bad feeling they try to gorw up Scott hair for soemthing for WCh :lol: My favorite haircut is from SC and CoR.
  18. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I too didn't think Meryl looked happy with the marks. I guess she was hoping for more.

    Side note, but can someone please give Meryl a cookie. Her arms and face are looking so emaciated to me it's scary.
    Habs and (deleted member) like this.
  19. cris_c

    cris_c Guest

    I am so lucky to have seen live three times Tessa and Scott competing against Meryl and Charlie, at Worlds 2010, 11 and 12. Every time, I noticed how much bigger they skate and how easy they gain speed without sacrificing lines and extensions at all. And every time I wondered how it is possible for the judges (with their trained eyes) to be even comparing the two couples and give them similar marks. Seen live, the difference between them as well as Tessa and Scott's superiority are overwhelming.
    I also agree with all the comments about the unballetic Meryl and Charlie's SD. I am a huge ballet admirer, so I cringe at the idea of one the most unballetic ice dance couple ever doing "Giselle", which is one of my most favourite ballets.
    Not necessarily linked to ice dance, but you really can't see Meryl and Charlie's arms, knees and toes after seeing these:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TcDzWRrk9I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw1OAP0BqTU
  20. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    I actually like this new haircut, as it reminds me a bit of how he wore his hair for PF and Mahler (which I also liked ;)) However, I thought his haircut for SC and CoR worked better for Carmen.

    Why do I like discussing hair so much? :p
  21. Fort

    Fort New Member

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    Because in ice dance, hair is nearly as important as the skating. :D
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  23. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  24. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    My Little Pony <333
  25. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    well said, Shayii.

    Thank you rainbowkisses, marikat, and pani for the links to their performance, and thank you elle123 for the protocols.

    Wow....they gave a clinic on turns, if you ask me. That footwork sequence was exceptional...so patient with those edges, so clean...I was renered speechless watching this SD. and I actually preferred the original concept--I love the melancholic aspects of it--but this dance is just gorgeous. and I agree with those who have remarked on the difficulty of these transitions--just look at how they are always skating on one foot, weaving around each other, changing directions, varying holds. This is exactly what that mark calls for. To me it is the most difficult SD in its transitions, so I disagree with the transitions mark among other things.. I do love D&W's SD as well, especially those little hops, which are very difficult. I like that they are pushing themselves to do more choreography in unison, and I think they capture the feel of the polka just beautifully. I think they will continue to work on line and extension with Alex.

    I also agree with many of the comments on skating skills. What I think Tessa and Scott do not always receive full credit for is they way in which they vary their speed, their ease of acceleration (speed out of nothing, as pani has noted), and the power of each stroke generated from those soft, rhythmic knees. They just float across the ice...I am still gobsmacked. exquisite skating.
  26. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    no problem! all the best for the new year!

    hehe, I love these discussions. I would like to see you face off with Macassar88 on this topic, lol;)

    word.

    Thanks.

    Also, for Canadian fans (sorry, everyone else:(), Canadian Tire is offering a free limited edition Olympic water bottle to each customer that spends $35 before noon. They come in 4 designs, one of which features Tessa and Scott (in their victory lap in Vancouver). People can view the bottles here:

    http://www.canadiantire.ca/home.jsp?site=WebStore

    nice to see them get this kind of recognition:)
  27. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Can you just buy the water bottle? I don't need anything at Canadian Tire--certainly not anything over $35. I still have the Patrick Chan water bottle, so I would like to complete the collection.
  28. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    You can "buy" the water bottle for $35 and consider whatever you bought as the "free" item. ;)
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
  30. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Hehe - I can't believe that you remember how much I fixate on Scott's hair!
  31. ofdarkness

    ofdarkness New Member

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    Can someone teach me a little on how to read the results? Like, you guys always talk of them getting level 4's, but all I see are 1's, 2's, and 3's haha. I'm a newbie at this.
  32. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Levels are written next to abbreviations of element names (left side). Or in the case of Yankee Polka sequences, if you see something like 2YP3+kpNYY, it's the second number that shows the level. Those 1s, 2s and 3s you see are GOE (grade of execution) marks. But a 3 for one element is not worth the same as a 3 for another element. They are all converted according to the base value of the element itself, so that's why you can see something like 1.43 or 0.79 under GOE next to the base value. If you were serious about that.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  33. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    i can't open pdfs so i can't tell you exactly, but

    CoSp4 3 3 3 3 3 3

    would be combination spin level 4. the numbers that go in a row after are goe, +3

    CStep3 (or something like that) 1 2 2 2 2 2

    Circular step sequence level 3, +2 goe's with one +1 goe
  34. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    CiSt3 ;)
  35. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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  36. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    short dance

    skate canada: okay
    nationals: lovely
    4cc: glorious! that music was made for them and this dance
  37. ofdarkness

    ofdarkness New Member

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    Ah, thank you all for clarifying! It makes much more sense now.
  38. whoa

    whoa Member

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    Of all the Giselles to be compared against, I don't know if anyone can match Alina!
    I love the power in D/W's SD, but it would be more effectively used with some other (any other!) music than Giselle. The hops, the costumes, everything hangs on the side of cheesy than genuine with that program for me. I liked their SD last year a lot more.
    I would love to see V&M do a ballet program but also don't see that happening anytime soon. A pity!
  39. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Really? I'm actually preferring the Nationals one right now. Everything seemed perfect there, the twizzles, the yankee polka, everything. And I also miss the hug.
  40. iggie

    iggie New Member

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