Virtue/Moir #24: We Like it Hot

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Proustable, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I felt the same way reading the article, I just didn't want to say it out loud. It felt like they're trying to prepare people for their inevitable loss. And no, it's not just that I'm panicking (I've already made my peace with it) I really think that is what will happen.
  2. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    I'm not panicking either. I am mad and upset though. Pre-determined results are not fun or fair.
  3. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  4. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    But who is preparing people? The newspaper? It doesn't have any quotes from Tessa, Scott, or Marina saying they are not ready. It's just an opinion piece. I will note two things from the article...

    First off, the home ice fairy tale doesnÂ’t happen very often.

    Only three times in history have Canadians won the worlds in their native land. Kurt Browning did it in Halifax in 1990 while pairs Jamie Sale and David Pelletier (2001 in Vancouver) and Barb Underhill and Paul Martini came through in 1984 at Ottawa.


    And how many times did Canadians win the Olympics in their home country? I can think of one. ;)

    Winning the title where you grew up is incredibly rare. Just ask Roman Kostomorov, a Russian ice dancer who, with partner Tatiana Navka, pulled off the feat in Moscow in 2005.

    It helps that they were the reigning World Champions in ice dance. ;)

    I actually feel pretty positive about Worlds. Not sure about 4CC. If there as an assumption out there that V&M will win Worlds, then the other events may be given away as consolation prizes. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if that is Marina's endgame. I can just see her going around at GPF telling the judges that Tessa and Scott are still getting ready, but oh, look how wonderful D&W are skating! And then to turn right around at Worlds and tell them look how beatifully V&M's programs came along, don't they look great? It is her job to keep two sides happy.
  5. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to be a fly on the wall behind the scenes at 4ccs and Worlds to hear what Marina is saying to judges, tech callers etc. I wouldn't be surprised if she's politicking more for Davis and White these days.
  6. rvi5

    rvi5 New Member

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    Saying Canadian skaters have only ever won Worlds on home soil 3 times in history, is not completely informative. There have been 60 World championships since 1952. Seven of those were held in Canada. That would be 3/7 = 43% success rate. If V/M win in London, that would rise to 4/8 = 50%
  7. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    True that it doesn't have any quotes, but this is V/M's hometown/home area newspaper and a journalist who has interviewed them many times before. Even without quotes, it doesn't mean that he hasn't been tipped off to put the idea out there for the hometown not to expect a win.

    This isn't little league soccer though. It's elite-level figure skating. Consolation prizes should not be handed out to D/W because people assume V/M will win worlds. V/M are the better team and the better team should win, end of story.

    I wouldn't be surprised either.
  8. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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  9. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    i think the article is an improvement from the nationals promo articles. it actually talks about how complicated the program is and how interesting and difficult it would be for v/m to win. legit hype, imo.

    eta: and when v/m win worlds, d/w fans will start complaining about home ice advantage (actually, they already are) so we can bring up this article to point out that even v/m's hometown paper didn't think that a win would come easily. in fact, it is actually the hardest worlds to win and will be v/m's greatest achievement, short of winning olympics in vancouver and defending their olympic title. :lol::p:D:scream:
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  10. Alixana

    Alixana recovering Oly-holic

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    I actually don't think there's anything sinister about the article, just a writer who neglected to check one fact .. number of world championships won by each couple. And even though he's a hometown writer, it doesn't mean that he's up to date on V&M and knowledgeable about figure skating. :)
  11. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Of course, we're already complaining that London is rigged to get D/W win.
  12. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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  13. Sahararainfall

    Sahararainfall New Member

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  14. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  15. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Now that you mention it, Tessa does look slimmer.
  16. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    i hope she's not making herself sick :(
  17. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    it could be the angle and the outfits, or that they're trying to get their weights down again in preparation for next year's olympics.
  18. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Whoa! She looks perfectly healthy, you guys.

    I can't believe some of you are actually giving up and saying outright they will not win. Remember who you're talking about. So much pessimism around here :confused:
  19. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying she doesn't look healthy, I'm just saying she looks slimmer, even from just three weeks ago (look at her chest area). And about being pessimistic you're probably right, but that's how I feel and it's not about Tessa and Scott. I have no doubt they are gonna give it their all and lay everything on the ice, but not sure that will be enough.

    ETA: I'm sorry. I can see you're replying to the post about her making herself sick. I very strongly disagree with that statement too.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  20. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    I think they have the SD exactly where they want it, and have spent the last month concentrating on the FD. I have great expectations, for me they are winners no matter what. M/C are spectacular skaters , imo, but seem to recycle programmes to different music.
  21. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    im only saying that because IIRC tessa said in their book that when they started competing again after her first surgery she always felt sick before a competition or something idk
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    At last OG Marina were with team Canada and Igor - with team USA at opening ceremony. What will happened this time? ;)

    :lol: Now i understand, why skaters couldnt leav Marina/
    What is Tenacious? Sorry for askking, but i translate online this word and cant undestand, what this mean.
    And what did she said about D-W?

    As for slim Tessa and Scott. I remeber Maria (V-M off-ice trainer) said Scott will become smaller during the season, becasue he need more speed. So i think this is plan. But honestly i love big Scott more (like he was at SC and CoR).

    Not good draw fro Tessa and Scott in SD - they will be in second group, when all amerivans in third one. I need to start nervouse now? :rolleyes:
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2013/SEG007.HTM
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  23. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    It means he doesn't give up easily; he fights for what he wants. Basically it means he probably doesn't think (and thank God) that they're not going to 4CC or Worlds lol.
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! :)
    I feel the same about this last article. Shayii. Maybe this is not a bad deal for Canada - Patrick gold and V-M silver and we must be ready for this. But Scott will never belive thy will lose IMHO.
    And i get bothering with all this OG. Never like OG too much. Skaters did such a great job every year, we see so many interesting programs, elements, bu tall must ne focising only at OG.
  25. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    No problem!

    I've been told that politics is such a huge part of figure skating and that's such a big turnoff to me. I wish they will just let the skaters skate and may the best person win; all these (supposedly) deal making going on behind closed doors is annoying. Let's see how it goes tomorrow, wishing them a great skate.
  26. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    Yeah. I am thinking they are going to lose too. I believe they may take the SD but barely .But I think they will lose the FD. it is brilliant but it hasn't been 100% yet and the judges don't seem to love it. Honestly I felt that M and C deserved to win the GP Final and I think you could argue that they deserved to win World's last year. But I am not really digging their FD at all this year. That is a first for me. it has moments and they always skate the lights out of it. But again there is always the franticness of their skating I just don't like. I prefer elegance, precision, and line over speed. V and M have that in spades. And Carmen is a masterpiece. To me they have the abandon of M and C and the precision they always have. Hopefully we will see it skated at its best at 4CC. The mistakes at Canadians are fixable. I just worry about the level 4's in the footwork. And they also seem to not be getting the judges won over with this dance. I don't know why. It is too provocative, it is too unlike them. I won't quibble about the technical as I am not an expert, although I still don't understand the level one spin. But it seems some changes need to be made in the COP. I get that particular edges are important for the marks but if it as the cost of losing some upper body movement that fresh and raw and different than i don't know. To me it is like when a jump is graded on difficulty do to it's entrance. It seems that what V and m were doing in the original footwork sequence in Carmen was very difficult but they were moving to a lesser edge to perform it. but if you are doing more with your whole body should the edges be that important. Does a difficult edge get higher marks with less body movement then a less difficult edge but with more body movement. Shouldn't they be equal in difficulty?
  27. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the first part - I do have great expectations of Tessa and Scott, although not such great expectations of them winning. But I can't quite agree with "M/C recycling programs to different music" part. Yes, they always use some of the same elements, but they always have some new ones as well - especially when it comes to lifts. And the choreography is different in most of their programs - can you really say that their tango FD, 'Die Fledermaus' and 'Notre Dame' all have the same choreography? I don't think that you can honestly say that.



    I am not getting my hopes up about Tessa and Scott winning 4CC or Worlds this season - it's very possible that they won't. But I will wait and see what happens at 4CC before I really start to panic. If they have the same technical base value as Meryl and Charlie in both dances, and still loose, then I'll understand that - yes, all is already decided for. But if, for instance, they have lower technical base value because they couldn't manage level 4 in any of their two FD step sequences, while D/W have at least one level 4, then I'll know that they simply gave the judges the opportunity to mark them lower. You all know very well that while fans and many colleagues may think that Tessa and Scott are the superior team, judges are never going to show that they are so much superior that they can still win while having a lower technical base than Meryl and Charlie.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  28. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I agree on both counts :)
  29. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    It's like Groundhog Day around here ;
  30. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  31. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Just notice technikal pannel
    Mr. Andrzej DOSTATNI
    I am worry about levels for T-S. And Chock-Bates will have all 4th.
  32. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Great. That's fabulous. Just Dandy. (I'm typing with sarcasm here, btw.) This just keeps going from bad to worse.
  33. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I didn't read the book so I don't know the exact reference, but there is a huge difference between feeling sick before a competition (nerves etc) and making yourself sick (which implies an eating disorder... not that having an ED makes you a bad person, but it wouldn't be a good thing for that to become a rumor based on an incorrect wording).

    Rewind the link I gave. D&W were discussed right before V&M. She said Meryl was beautiful and I can't remember what she said about Charlie.



    Meh, Dostatni plus that start order isn't good at all.
  34. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    This is pretty much bad to the point I don't know whether to cry or to laugh that it's so bad.

    Poor Tessa and Scott. I feel so badly for them.
  35. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    She said: Meryl/Beautiful, Charlie/energetic, Tessa/Phenomenal and Scott/tenacious

    Regarding the draw order and panel at least they should have Marina all to themselves and she won't have to run off in the K&C to be with the others so we can all have fun analyzing her reaction :lol:
  36. Scrufflet

    Scrufflet Active Member

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    I went back to read that article and to me, it was the old-style Canadian inferiority complex raising its ugly head! I remember watching American skating for years and Scotty would state that American nationals were more difficult than Worlds; this assertiveness was something quite foreign to me. Our male skaters always seemed to skirt the issue, never saying I'm the best. But Scott and Tessa seemed to be the first to say it outright! I think that's why they get criticism. I'm glad they dare!
    Don't worry, people! I don't know who's going to win but they truly are in a league of their own and have nothing to prove. They are giving us a superb program in Carmen.
    I don't know about politicking. Sadly we all know some is there but we really can't do much but hope.
    I'm glad for Yankowkas remarks.
  37. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Or you know the article may have been written that way to build excitement for the upcoming showdown, create some buzz and interest. Us being all doom and gloom isn't going to change the way they skate this weekend or how the judges will judge. I think the only effect negativity can have is if it reaches them that their fans don't think they can beat the system.

    I think we saw during Euro's that if I&K can win the FD that actually choreography, interpretation and innovation mean very little in ice dance. I've accepted that and hope they can nail those elements to the satistifaction of whatever panel they have to deal with. So with all that out of our control I think I will just sit back and enjoy their programs. Sometimes it takes hindsight for people to realize what they witnessed was legend and it might just be that way with Carmen.
  38. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Exactly. And I have faith they will.
  39. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Could only wish good luck to Tessa and Scott :) Wish they will be free and emotional in SD.
    I will not watching "live" (too early in the morning) and Eirosport will show ice dance after pairs short.

    Thank you!
  40. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    well one can make oneself sick and not have an ED
    i always make myself sick by worrying too much and i dont have an ed
    i purposely made that sentence ambiguous