Virtue & Moir # 23 - Dance Me To The End Of Love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    :lol: I don't always include winking icons to my posts because I just always assume people understand. I find adding them is like explaining a joke. As for being angry or upset you are mistaking me for the poster I responded to who was upset over the insulting derogatory comments he was reading about V&M and that lift online. I'm guessing you haven't read any of those based on your post :p

    btw...on some of the photos where comments are being made Tessa is also in the process of dropping out of that lift.
     
  2. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course the idea is to be provocative. It's an interpretation of SEX. Every movement is deliberately portraying the sexual act because, get this, it's a dance about two people trying to dominate each other through sex. One wants to eclipse the woman's identity and own her; the other is desperately trying to rebel and keep her own self through her sexual power. Tell me, sir, what is wrong with that? This opera has been masterfully adapted in all forms of art, this is yet another take on it. So, tell me, why is the "provocativeness" an issue here? It's an honest question to the D-W fan that posted above. I honestly wish to know why the erotic elements bother you when they are consistent with the story.

    See, it's pretty valid to not like V-M. You can say that and it's fine. But then people go and call this porn (which it isn't because if there's something this program has in spades is substance); they go and call Tessa fat; they go and post pictures on Twitter with hashtags that diminish the program and make it look as the dirtiest thing ever done when, in truth, you simply don't like the team and are bound to reject anything they do.

    Now, it is one thing to reject, quite another to spread uninformed opinions about what this program is about. Take the time to at least read about Carmen. Another poster made a BRILLIANT observation about the binary oppositions present in the program, it's right here, read it. Every movement has a purpose. Sexual? Absolutely. It's a power struggle: two people fighting for it through sex. So, again, I ask: what's so wrong about it? Isn't it valid to use the theme of sex? If art is the representation of reality through the creation of a possible world, why is sex, one of the most real experiences in the universe, off limits? Can you answer me, please?
     
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  3. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, why are so many people bothered by what's on Twitter, etc.? If figure skating champions were decided by popular vote, I could see it. But otherwise?
     
  4. Sandypaws04

    Sandypaws04 New Member

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    You will have to read my post again, but first take the chip off your shoulder. I don't have anything against the provocative interpretation of the Carmen FD and I don't find anything wrong with sex or it's expression in the arts, so don't act like you know me. I was commenting on the use a photo of Meryl that was made to appear to have sexual intent when it did not, in an insulting fashion. I simply see no need for that. That is all. All the rest, you have attributed to me unfairly. So perhaps it is your opinion that is uninformed.
     
  5. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    On that we agree. There's no need to insult anyone. We make the mistake of generalizing and my post was not only addressed to you. My direct question was about the provocative interpretation, which you mentioned. I thought, perhaps wrongly, that in defending the non-sexual intent of that lift, you were putting down the other. If I made that mistake, I am sorry, my bad. As for the rest, again, I am not attributing it to you but to a certain group, I believe I said people not you. Still, the general idea applies.

    I do not like D-W as a team, I find there are many things in their skating that aren't appealing to me, but I do not feel I am insulting them by pointing out the things I find lacking in their skating, I am merely stating an opinion. I do not use snark or insults to do so. I am sure you feel similarly about V-M and that is okay. Why do we feel we have to tip-toe around everything we say when discussing a team we don't like? I will never know this.
     
  6. sequins

    sequins Active Member

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    I don't quite understand it either. Why can't we point out things/teams we don't like and why we feel someone else was better and not have it be perceived as insulting, bitter, bashing 'a new level of superiority'. There are plenty of vicious people out there as has been pointed out but I don't see how saying you simply don't care for a team/skater or program for such and such a reason is so horrible. I like D/W, P/B, but I hate their FD's this year why is that so awful to say? I like V/M and I love both their program and yes they are #1 for me always but I'm not above criticizing them if they came out with something I didn't like. and they deserved better at the GPF. But that's my opinion, it's not a slam on anyone personally, just a simple opinion and why that can't be discussed and debated in a rational form so that maybe we could all better understand one anothers perceptions and maybe be enlightened a bit, I will never know . Instead it's you in that coner, me in this corner and don't come over here and I'll just block you anyway so I don't have to hear what I don't want don't want to.

    BTW Golightly I loved your post defending Carmen. I thought it was great.
     
  7. Sandypaws04

    Sandypaws04 New Member

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    I agree with most of your post. I think the problem in discussing honestly, our opinions and our feelings about the dancers and their programs is knowing where to draw the line between honest discussion about elements, choice of music, skating skill, etc, and succumbing to the temptation, perhaps by frustration, to insulting and belittling the competition. I think that the amount of effort, time, training, and money and also the talent that all of the top skaters devote to what they put on the ice in competitions, demands that they be treated with the appropriate respect. I'm not lecturing anyone, these are just my feelings fwiw. It's just how I see a better, kinder way of discussing our love for what they bring us in those magical moments on ice. Whether I agree with the skaters' vision, say something new or out of the box, I always feel respect for their effort is important. I'm really grateful for what all the top teams bring to the table that allows us to enjoy the thrill of great competition.
     
  8. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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  9. Alixana

    Alixana who is on vacation!!

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  10. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Hi, guys!
    Hope you saw "Dance me to the end of love" banner on TV?
    I am sure V-M must have higher marks for choreo and transitions in FD.
    And D-W SD all about jumping, V-M - about watzing, so i dont know what is better? I think V-M ice coverage must be awarded by judges, no?
     
  11. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    i just want to say that what tanith said about how d/w draws you in is utter bs. tbh it was v/m who got me watching figure skating again. they are the ones who drew me back to the sport because i used to watch it as a kid but then i stopped. but when i saw their performance at the olympics i decided i wanted to watch it again.
     
  12. ddtpdx

    ddtpdx New Member

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    Talk about conflict of interest...
     
  13. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    V/M fans aren't going to be drawn in by D/W's skating, no matter what D/W do. But audiences are drawn in, and so are judges and that's what matters.
     
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  14. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    huh? pls dont judge me for being new.

    #publicrimjob :lol:;)

    all im trying to say is that v/m draw the audience in as well. and they interact with them as well on a special level. like i think scott said something about feeding off the energy of the audience in vancouver or something during their od (and you can tell as the louder the audience was the stronger their performance became) also it was v/m's carmen and their latin fd that got the audience clapping along with the beat. so saying v/m's programs excludes the audience/doesnt draw the audience in is utter bs they just have a different way of doing it
     
  15. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    NO..... I do think it's time to stop dishing other teams and concentrate on how we can dispose (preferably permanently) of the dreadful judges :lynch: Love love love everything about T/S. I think they are the class of the ice. BTW I do believe they are still good friends with D/W because I really like D/W, too, and in my psychotic little world everyone loves everyone:ROFL:. I wish D/W fans who don't love Tess and Scott would just hike right on out of here.
     
  16. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Tanith Belbin and Charlie White have been a couple since the 2009-2010 season and bought a condo together last year. She's not exactly an impartial source when it comes to V/M vs D/W.
     
  17. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    yeah i know that she is biased but i think she wasnt the first one to say something like that
     
  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Guys, wht happened with thread after GPF? It was positive one, but what happened now?
    After i read Ioanna post i didnt want to go to GS and even at close FSU. I thought safe place is there.
     
  19. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Indeed. A part of the audience and a part of the judges.;)

    Pani, can you give us more details about their performances, since you're the only one who got to watch them live?
    I hope T&S saw your banners and liked them. They looked great.
     
  20. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Pani as we said before most of us are women so it stands to reason that we go up and down....

    I would say D&W reach out to their audience and T&S draw you in to the program. That is why we feel we are in the inner circle of Hallelujah or even Carmen and felt slightly outside the loop in a program like FF where the emotions didnt draw us in... My take only.
     
  21. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    http://tessa-and-scott.livejournal.com/
    You could see all baners in this LG :D

    I dont know, what to say.
    Like i said before, they had more speed and power, then at GPF. In SD Scotdid mistake on twizzles, but try hard to get there levels in pattern dance.
    I dont like new ending. But in waltz they look good, they show soft skating, big skating. I think they improve skating since CoR.
    In FD didyou notice how he start madefirst lift? It was just like wow :D I think the bigest problem was with choreo lift and i think they will change it - i feel like its too hard to them do it without speed. And did you notice how long time similar lift took in P-B FD? This lift very cool and creative, but didnt ive a lo off points.
    I think last lift was very good. Again - ,ore speed and power. I think Tessa was good in acting.
    I want to say after this FD i feel something dark, maybe something out of usuall ice dance world. Its not only moves - this what i felt after this FD was end. She killed him - thats the end of story.
    I could say T-S have a lot off support after FD.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7rEbn_ygFS8
     
  22. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Pani! Welcome back I'm glad you got to go to both CoR and GPF. I've made my peace with them losing two days ago. I was just upset because Carmen wasn't getting appreciated, but as long as we see it and others see it I'm ok. Also I'm very very hopeful about the second half of the season. I must say after seeing some Instagram pics Tessa and Scott are very much loved in Russia even with other Russian skaters lol. Anyways yes let's bring back the positive energy in this thread.

    Just out of my annoying curiosity, rainbowkisses, did you by any chance use to go by the username Sliver98?
     
  23. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    T-S have a lt off support in Russia, like other skaters. But i think V-M more "russian classical style team".
    You know - i am not upset anymore. After this GPF my thoughts was - i will never see most part off this skaters again :( This is sad, but its life.
    And T-S are adults, so if they think they could work under this pressure - its OK. But i think they could show they are apy with there skating after SD amd FD now. Just enjoy this last 4 programs and thins limit times of competitions.

    Guys, how do you like new SD ending?
     
  24. elle123

    elle123 Member

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    DING DING DING ... now THERE's an idea. I will never understand why any haters or those who dislike a certain athlete/team feel it necessary to visit his/her/their fan thread, nonetheless stir up stuff. I do agree that bashing should be kept to a minimum (particularly about things that are not related to skating, i.e. physical appearance) but I think most of our points about D/W are valid reasons why we don't enjoy their skating. We're not saying that they're not great athletes, we just prefer T/S. I'm generalizing and I apologize if I'm misrepresenting the fans here but that's how I feel about this issue. I think a lot of our frustration stems from perceived under appreciation of Tessa and Scott and what they bring to their programs.

    Unfortunately, I don't think there's ever going to be a fix for the judging since a large component of ice dance is subjective and driven in part by politicking.
     
  25. elle123

    elle123 Member

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    I don't think the new ending is bad but I do prefer the old one.
     
  26. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Agree :)
     
  27. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Pani, thanks for your details! That thank you message from T&S was lovely.

    I can't say the new SD ending is bad either, but I much prefer the original one. I wish they'd go back to it.
    Many of us feel strongly about the choreo lift - that is, we love it - but yes, it might have to be replaced... We'll see what they decide.
     
  28. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Me too.
     
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    It look so good, when Tessa get this position. But its hard for Scott. Not because she is big or something, but because Scott is a human, not a robot, that why this lift a little longer, then they need. And this lift is on one place, so maybe judges want to see more dinamic finale.
     
  30. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    no why?