Virtue and Moir #38: Simply Timeless

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Golightly, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    It will only be great to watch if the new Russian teams are ranked fairly. If they are given inflated marks just because one person in each team is a former Olympic medalist, that will not be fun to see. As it is, I&K themselves sometimes got inflated marks. Should they really have been so high after the SD in Saitaima after the major twizzle mistake?
  2. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, will be interesting to see how things will go for two new teams. Good to see fresh faces in new quad. And good, that all will skate, not like Crone and Samuelson who ended up because there patners want to skate with another girls.
  3. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    This, to some degree, is my fear. Actually, it could be applied to any team who is "athletic/acrobatic" when comparing them to the marks received by those teams who actually dance. I'd also like to see tech people calling what is happening on the ice on that particular day rather than giving out based on reputation. Same thing with the judges and their giving out +3 GOE and 10s when mistakes are made.

    Man, I'm missing V/M and they technically haven't retired. Please guys, stay?
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  5. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Getting marks based on reputation is a problem that has carried over from the old judging system. And it's something that we will probably see in all the disciplines for a while - men, ladies and pairs, too.

    In the event that V&M were to stay, they'd have to go to a new coach since it's been reported here that they have sold their homes in Michigan and moved back to Canada. Their relationship with Marina seems to be over.
  6. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Makes me wonder if Marina kicked them out??? :shuffle: Her ego probably couldn't handle the way the media took Scott's comment's out of context and made a big deal out of nothing.
  7. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I think that is carrying it too far. They were scheduled to leave and they did. They knew they would be in SOI Japan followed by CSOI.
  8. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Plan was to practice in Canton before OG and OG individual FD were the last day of TS 4 years plan.
    Now they need new plan. Will they doing shows, go to school, coaching or maybe will give us more years of competing - this will be new VM buisness and life plan.
  9. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I wish they would continue so they could get that GPF title they were so continuously robbed of. But it won't happen
  10. tourtiere

    tourtiere Member

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    parapluies :lol:


    Speaking of edges and technique, I like this tutorial like preview on skating edges and technique and what is GOOD and what is BAD from the 1994 Worlds:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPujutTOIGs

    0:26: "Here's a couple whose edges are not strong. They appear to skating on top of the ice as opposed to being down into it. Note the lack of depth"
    0:38: "By contrast this is a couple who carve their edges deep into the ice".
    She goes on to say that judges look for edges with a running glide to them, and edges riding on the toepick is bad.

    20 years later, all these rules have apparently been thrown out the window :D and what is frowned upon/bad is now looked upon as good. I knew there was something weird about all the "lightness" crap that has been said about team(s) that skate on top of the ice like they are not touching the surface :lol:
  11. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Well, I suppose if Marina was upset it's always possible that she kicked them out of her school. But she probably doesn't have the power to evict them from the state of Michigan unless she has pull with the Governor.;)

    It may just have been that Tessa & Scott were ready to leave anyway and that Scott commented about the coaching situation because he knew their relationship with Marina was concluded at that point.
  12. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    I hate the fact that Scott has been labeled by some as a whiner and complainer because he acknowledged what a large number of people suspected for some time. They have given Marina a huge amount of credit for their success over their careers and I think were genuinely blindsided by what they saw as a change of attitude towards them this year. I think, with most relationships - it starts out with just a feeling that things are different. You look for tangible signs that you are right or wrong. It sounds like they went to her numerous times and initiated the conversation about their marks and disappointment as to how the season was going for them, and she listened and responded positively and they were relieved. However, things did not improve the way they had hoped. She obviously could not be at the US championships and Canadian ones at the same time - but something about the way she handled this was a tangible sign this season was different. At some point, they realized they were going to have to salvage the season themselves and set about to do so. Apparently, Skate Canada was a big support at this time so kudos to them. I feel it speaks to the marvellous strength they have as individuals and as a team that they were so successful. There was no temper tantrum and Marina was there and present in the K&C to share the joy and credit for their silver medal - but they were also truthful about what it had taken to get there. By all signs, this was not just a very successful coach/skaters relationship as far as phenomenal results for many years - they were very close and in awe of Marina and her talents. Too bad she didn't end this on a higher note.
  13. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I think what happened to Scott's comments is the same thing that happens during a game of telephone. Scott told the media that they weren't happy & that Marina wasn't in their cornor and that they told that to Marina and they sorted it out with her (which they acknowledged her professionalism). The Canadian media cherry-picked their words leaving out a a lot of information only reporting that "Marina wasn't in their corner". It was the media who blamed Marina for V/M's loss not V/M. The US media picked up on this including the tone, attributed the bewailing to Scott and V/M instead of the author of the article leaving out more information and everybody went :lynch: out of blind patriotism. This always seems to happen that during the Olympics. I was recently reminded that D/S (the Russians not France) Comments (and other ice dancers comments) at Vancouver were mistranslated and I still feel dumb for falling for that mistanslation years ago and I hope people who called V/M ungracious will feel the same as I did looking back. People seem to forget that the media tends to cut things out so the storyline could make more money or get more viewers.
  14. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    The media had been closely following the Virtue/Moir vs. Davis/White rivalry since the last Olympics in Vancouver, and I think this was the opening they had been waiting for. They had asked both teams over and over again in the past several seasons whether they could still stay friends when they were also rivals and what it was like to have the same coach. Up until now everything had been fine. But once the Olympic FD was over and V&M spoke at the press conference about some of the challenges they had this season and their coaching relationship with Marina, it opened the door for the media to spice up the story.
  15. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

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    In fairness though, it was a pretty weird situation. How could they have had the same coach and trained together when they were bitter rivals for the OGM and it was clear the coach placed her bets on one of the teams? The only time i know this worked(-ish) was when Moskvina coached both Kazakova & Dmitriev and Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze in 1998, but even then Artur's attempts to help Anton actually screwed with his head more and made him even more nervous and Oksana was reportedly jealous of Elena. And Moskvina is probably the best and most professional coach in the world, so it's not surprising people didn't buy into the whole 'love and peace'-act between V&M and D&W.
  16. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Spice it up by taking things out of context. There was, as the saying goes "much ado about nothing". Makes me wish more people would question what they read. Newspaper will do anything for a good scoop its quite sickening. Maybe that is where V/M went wrong. They were a little bit to naïve and honest. In this sport honesty will do you no good. Nevertheless, I just came acrross this article : http://www.mondaymag.com/news/255692481.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  17. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    If you haven't read it already, there is a Russian interview with B&S. V&M were mentioned twice by the reporter--once alongside D&W, the other specifically about them and whether B&S would like to do such daring lifts as V&M's last life in their Carmen FD.
  18. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a link to the interview? I read that it said there was going to make changes to the twizzles? But I can't find the interview.
  19. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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  20. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I've momentarily forgotten their Coach was Zhulin :lol: now the answer to the lifts make sense. If I remember, he made one of his teams do the Goose I won't be surprised if B/S get a variation of the Carmen Lift. People have continuously insulted V/M because of their lifts from Carmen and Carmen itself but now its refreshing to see teams inspired by their FD and willing to execute lifts as difficult as the ones in Carmen.
  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Same here.
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Now its interesting to know, who did "Top Hat, White Tie And Tails" choreo.
    I want to see TS dancing around his kitchen :D
  23. forthewin

    forthewin Member

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    For me, I love V/M's skating and I love their personalities. They are always honest and sincere. Just like their performance on the ice, so genuine. You feel their heart from the way they skate, they dance and they talk. On the other hand, D/W seem to be the opposite to me. D/W's programs are always a bit forced emotionally, and when they talk, they put up a fake front. I just can't feel connected to either their programs or personas.
  24. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    That is what Marina should have said instead of calling them kids with hoodies. But, her tastes are for the exotic and the cultivated exotic instead of the normal and natural....
  25. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    It was journalsit, who name them teenagers
  26. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Wow.
  27. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Me too, Pani! God, they would be great ballroom dancers. I would die to see that.
  28. lavenderblue

    lavenderblue Active Member

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    The interviewer called them kids with hoodies.
  29. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I agree and that is why I laugh so hard when people say D/W's chemistry is "real" while V/M is forced sexiness. Where do people get all this? :lol: D/W have their strengths, chemistry/believable performance is not one of them.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  30. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    My mistake.
  31. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I don;t understand how anyone can say they look like kids with hoodies even those uneducated news reporters. V/M look like neoclassical sculpture like Canova as people said in the past (or Bernini but Bernini is Baroque).
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  32. *Ice Princess*

    *Ice Princess* Member

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  33. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  34. *Ice Princess*

    *Ice Princess* Member

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    Really? I hope someone brough it and do some scans :D
    I miss them too, for sure in CSOI we'll have more news, photos and video.. like past year ;)
  35. kirbs

    kirbs New Member

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    I googled it and the article's here http://www.mondaymag.com/news/255692481.html. Also you can look at the magazine itself here http://www.mondaymag.com/eeditions/?iid=i20140417070424286 but there's nothing new, the photo inside is from the same shoot as the cover photo (the interview was conducted by phone from Japan).

    It's a really lovely article!
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  36. Lety

    Lety Member

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    This interview made me a bit emotional, I think it's because like you guys, I miss them.
    But I'm looking forward to see new videos and photos from CSOI (hopefully we'll have something on internet) and if someone is going to see it live I wish you have lots of fun! I'm waiting for your impressions! :D
  37. *Ice Princess*

    *Ice Princess* Member

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    Thanks :)

    ITA!! :) :)

    That's cool ^_^ http://24.media.tumblr.com/bd834679937b1c45bd83870fde38f075/tumblr_n4aoyxX0xM1s2pnero1_1280.jpg
  38. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Part of me missed the V/M and D/W rivalry at Worlds, and it was obvious to see that in the absence of the top 2 teams, none of the other dance teams had quite figured out how to step into the gap yet. (Which is why there was a 3-way tie for gold with 3 teams getting 175). There were a lot of errors in the dance event at Worlds, and it goes to show how clean and consistent V/M and D/W were compared to many of the other teams.

    On the other hand, it was also nice to see the dance podium open up. The V/M vs. D/W rivalry has been nice to watch over the past 4 or 5 years, but it has meant that gold and silver were always a lock for them, and only the bronze was open to everyone else. This year we finally got some new medalists on the podium and we saw a lot of movement in the standings.

    W/P would probably not have gotten on the podium if V/M skated, and our other Canadian dance teams of G/P and P/I wouldn't have the opportunity to have advanced as far. If V/M were to return next season, the downside would be that W/P would not be able to advance to the top, and either G/P or P/I would be left home at next year's Worlds.
    mollymgr and (deleted member) like this.
  39. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    During the past quad, one team was consistent in their ice dancing, another consistent on recycled elements. IF V/M had skated at World's, then they would have earned one of the 3 spots that Canada had available and G/P (I think) would have had to have been the team who stayed home. Their time would have come eventually.

    I never tired of watching V/M, mistakes and all. They have brought such a wonderful body of work for us to have watched and appreciated. Tessa & Scott have truly been what ice dancing has supposed to have been. That is, before the rules of how to "check the boxes to get higher levels" were changed to favour gymnastics on speed to detriment of the sport.
  40. tourtiere

    tourtiere Member

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    I'm sorry but when I see Golightly's posts I always get the same image in my head of the main character in Breakfast at Tiffany's and cannot stop laughing :rofl: