Virtue and Moir #30 - Labour of Love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by MissJD, Sep 13, 2013.

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  1. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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  2. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right. I really don't like her right now. At all. And what's worse is she probably wouldn't even let go of the grip she has on them to let them go to someone that can give them 100 percent of their time and efforts.
     
  3. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I think Tessa and Scott could leave if they chose to? But, sadly, I don't think it even crossed their minds.
     
  4. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    Thanks Cherub
     
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    At about 1:15 of this video, V/M's Carmen is featured -- Hugo Chouinard talks about his editing process and mentions he had done almost 20 versions of the music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR-6G0wj8so

    Thanks for the music info! :) Where is the Tchaikovsky piano concerto no. 1 edit?

    ETA: I'm happy they opened with Glazunov's beautiful Petit Adagio from the Autumn section of The Seasons!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
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  6. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    *Sigh* this thread is quite depressing today :( If Marina is deliberately giving them shitty material why doesn't SC interfere? I don't think SC cares about V/M at all.
     
  7. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    And Carmen probably had more cuts. It was that complex.
     
  8. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxkHhYJ_U
    1:50 in is when Tchaik comes on until around 2:10
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Thank you! So it's the twizzle section and then it segues to Scriabin? I'm not familiar with that piano concerto - can someone identify which movements were used?
     
  10. tonkatwofeather

    tonkatwofeather Member

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    Well, some of us are trying to be cheerleaders, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.:cheer2: Go figure. Cocktail anyone?
     
  11. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

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    Did we ever learn what the 1.0 deduction was for?
     
  12. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Probably a prolonged lift.
     
  13. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Yep - it's the cadenza of the first movement
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic5YH5v6u2o
    17:55 onward (although you should listen to the entire concerto because it's beautiful and perfect just like Tessa and Scott!)


    That said, I don't think it really fits the program here. I do think they'll be able to make everything perfect in time for the olympics though. It's just small music changes and stuff that they need.

    I kind of wish they had used the second movement instead of the first. There's a beautiful theme there (21:06)
     
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  14. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    I'm at the Leafs game tonight having a couple drinks and still thinking about V&Ms gorgeous FD. I think the music is absolutely glorious and the program stunning. I think it will be breathtaking by Sochi.
     
  15. tonkatwofeather

    tonkatwofeather Member

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    Thank you! Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Go Leafs!
     
  16. Jeanne7

    Jeanne7 Member

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    Totally agree! Although I like some of D&W's FD, a great deal is a compilation of previous moves & programs with little progression - kind of a "paint by numbers" FD with some new music. It's being referred to as "balletic" but sorry - I see nothing balletic in either Charlie or Meryl's body positions & some of the lifts are downright awkward. Just giving my opinion --

    I loved V/M's program - the music, the lifts just so beautiful - and it highlights all their strengths. Obviously it needs work in some areas but that's how it should be at this early stage. And please, please some posters (you know who you are) stop the hand wringing, and imagining you know what's happening behind the scenes -- you don't. D/W are always over-marked in the US - 2012 season being a good example, where they received realistic scores in Nice & V/M were rewarded for their continued reworking of their programs and were recognized.
     
  17. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Okay I need to vent and this will involve V/M vs. D/W which I know it's frowned upon, but I need to get it off of my chest.

    I can't stand the blatant bais the judges and the general FS community have against V/M. Maybe because V/M are the reigning Olympic Champs and maybe people just like to knock down whoever's on top. But since last season V/M are definitely not the golden couple yet they are still taking quite a beating in the general community compare to D/W. A watered down Mahler? Really?? This dance is so much more intricate and difficult than Mahler so what exactly is being watered down? The theme?? Why do V/M have to come up with something wildly different every year?? What's so thematically different between ND and POTO, Scheherazade and S&D??? What gets me even more is when every time Scott says something mildly controversial he gets ripped apart and names like d-bag thrown against him. But those comments D/W made at the the US media summit were a million times worse yet it seems they got away with it because it was barely discussed compare to all the flak Abbott's been getting. Recycled lifts and elements and copied lifts are amazeballs if it's from D/W but when V/M do it they get criticized. Why is this happening??

    Okay enough about D/W. I was never on the bandwagon that V/M need to leave Canton and I still am not. I don't agree that this year's FD (btw what are we going to call this year's FD, Seasons?) is an afterthought because Marina wants to secure the Gold for D/W. Sche. and MFL aren't all that, and V/M's Jazzy SD is the best choreographed SD this year. I'm not just saying this because I'm uber because I definitely felt Giselle was the better constructed SD last year. There are issues to work out for Seasons but they are getting solid PCS for this time of the year and I think it's a great program. It's the TES that's puzzling and I'm no TEKNIK so maybe BKFan can enlighten us on where those level 1 and 2s are coming from... I'm also quite puzzled with Maurizio's quote. Did he say this after the score came up?? Because if it isn't then they knew the levels were going to suck?? That makes no sense IMO because I doubt Skate Canada would let this slide during High Performance Camp and they would lose all credibility as elite coaches. This isn't just wanting D/W to win, they are putting their livelihood on the line.

    Finally, in a previous interview Marina said Seasons is her way to give back a little to Russia and could only imagine V/M skate to this music. She is right and I still think Seasons is the right vehicle as V/M claimed. Maybe we and the general fans are being spoiled after the great run of Latin - FF - Carmen and especially Carmen, that going back to their classic romantic piece seems ho-hum. With those scores a Finlandia they can only go up from here.
     
  18. skategal

    skategal Bunny slave

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    I agree, Rafter. I already like it tons better than I did their 2010 Mahler FD at the same point in the season.
     
  19. twizzlesizzle

    twizzlesizzle Member

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    If Skate Canada had no idea of the intent (if any) at that time, there's nothing they could do. Think of it like politics. There a ton of scandals and deals made out of view of the public, but it comes back on all involved whether they had any part of it or not, if they get caught. So if this is what's taking place, V/M and D/W have no part of it, they're just skating. This "slip of the tongue" by their coach saying they haven't done their job is possibly opening a door to something more. Is there anything there? Who knows, but as of right now, we know that for V/M, they haven't given them 100%.
     
  20. piano18

    piano18 New Member

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    Interesting.

    V&M "The Waltz Go On" SD from last season was the most challenging SD that season by any team and was the most interesting SD that came out of the Zoueva camp. Then I read it was choreographed with help from their childhood dance teacher Jennifer Swan. That made sense because the dance didn't look like anything Zoueva could have produced herself given what has been seen of her work with the Americans.

    With this current FD I sense less JSwan and more Zoueva :(
    What was Jennifer Swans input to this dance?
     
  21. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    indeed, where is Swan in the FD? though i'm also thinking that since marina said this is her tribute to russia that she would want more input into the FD this time around
     
  22. sequins

    sequins Active Member

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    Hope you're right Rafter, I do like the music. Um... Go Sens! (runs for cover)
    Well now there's a positive. I admit I wasn't a big fan of Mahler in the beginning either, still not my fave and I do like this more so I'm gonna give it time and see how it looks at SC. I don't hate this program but I'm kinda confused about it to be honest.
     
  23. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    But the issue is they got hammered in the TES and that's suppose to be quantifiable. If by saying not done their job means they are not getting them levels and they knew beforehand then isn't this 'visible' by Skate Canada during HPC, and they also skated in front of the judges at Quebec behind closed doors to get feedback. On the other hand if he means giving V/M a solidly choreographed program then we may have something to go on yet their PCS are quite good.
     
  24. twizzlesizzle

    twizzlesizzle Member

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    Well, this is where you bring back in 23 music cuts. It's hard to hammer down a program if you're changing the music a couple times every week. What they presented behind closed doors for HPC may only be a memory compared to what they're doing now (most is probably the same, but you can see what I'm saying). To what extent they haven't done their job? That's all speculation, but we know they haven't done the job for something.

    If it's on the latter about the PCS being quite good, this is where I'll hear about it again, but... it's V/M with Marina (history can precede itself, politics can take shape, or they just earn it). Seeing that the PCS for them in the FD, with Judge 5 (oh yeah, that's the Canadian Judge) gave them 10's and the ONLY 10's, it's not all them just earning it, they seemed to get some help. Remember, these judges sheets were not released with the judges in random order. So judge 5 is judge 5 on sheets.

    I wish V/M the best of luck, they're a talented team, I just hope that there's NOT something bigger going on behind them and D/W for that matter with their coaches that could possibly be "rigging" the rankings.
     
  25. ddtpdx

    ddtpdx New Member

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    First off, I want to thank everyone for all the posts and links over the past several months and keeping the thread so alive. Even though I haven't had much time, I do try to make it to this thread once a week to enjoy the discussion on this thread.

    Like some of you, I'm trying my best to just appreciate V/M's (most likely) last competitive programs and not worry about the scores and placements (easier said than done).

    After the dramatic no-holds-barred masterpiece Carmen FD from last season, this more subtle program will, I think, require more viewings to appreciate. I do keep wondering though what FD we would have seen this season if Carmen was duly rewarded last season (and sometimes that gets me really mad).

    But I'm persisting with my original goal and will go watch their FD a few more times to absorb all of the details that I missed after first viewing and enjoy their beautiful skating :)
     
  26. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. I loved Carmen, but I love that this dance showcases their flow and edges. Those lifts are so gorgeous, the images they showcase, it just blows my mind. This program will be outstanding by Sochi. I am SO excited!!
     
  27. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    PCS is solid when you compare to the rest of the competition at Finlandia, at least there were no 7s and 8s that we saw they got in the SD those were ridiculous. Their GOEs are pretty solid too. I also highly doubt that the music selection and the longer time it took for them to nail down the cuts was a deliberate way by their coaches to put them at a disadvantage. I am actually more concerned that after Finlandia Russia and team Shpilband will politik against V/M hardcore because of their score here will make it look like it's a very big possibility other teams can catch up and bypass them. Hope I didn't open up another can of worms :yikes:
     
  28. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead and vent - I actually agree. I thought their comments about Detroit were terrible and entitled as well as their comments about the gay rights in Russia - they should take a note from Ashley Wagner. And I guess Abbott is getting more flak because people care more about men's skating? I personally think V/M need to rework the whole FD - even Mahler looked more put together when it was first debuted (but that was in late October I wonder how many changes they could make from now until Skate Canada?) . Hopefully Jen Swan can work her magic - they need to go to her right away instead of waiting for GPF like they did last year with their SD. I also never was on the "get V/M away from Marina bandwagon" but I can't help but feel their coaches are neglecting them. I cannot stop thinking what Maurizio said in the KnC. Its true both V/M and D/W's FDs aren't gems but lets hope V/M can pull it together for the olympics - Tessa did say that the last part won't be realized until they preform it at the olympics which translates to me that there's going to be alot more tweaking (and hopefully that means they will remove that choreographic lift). Maybe they deliberately created this program like this so it can peak at the right time?

    And really if Seasons is Mahler 2.0 then Scheherazade is Bollywood 2.0 (Well it looks more like Polovtsian dance 2.0 but judging from the quotes D/W were going for Bollywood 2.0 - I honestly don't know or understand what Marina is doing.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  29. apple123

    apple123 Banned Member

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    I love this FD, and I think they chose the right direction to go. Sure, they have some problems with the levels, but they also have time on their hand. Nothing can't be fixed. Like they always do, they will find a way to make it even more perfect by the next showing. One question, do V/M still train in Canada sometimes? They can use a second opinion, especially on the technique side.
     
  30. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Did you see the huge gap between V-M and Igor's teams? Even with the low TES, there's a 24-point gap between V-M and the second place, which is an Igor team.
     
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