Virtue and Moir #30 - Labour of Love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by MissJD, Sep 13, 2013.

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  1. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    Wow - great to hear you are going again professordeb - we will definitely have to get together. I also would love to attend a VM fan get together.
  2. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    I too found the music jarring and felt it interrupted the flow and fluidity of the dance. I really enjoyed the short slow section, but the dance just didn't mesmerize me from start to finish as past programs have. Some of the lifts were sensational, but the same can be said of D&W.

    I am a definite V&M uber and would really like to see them win their second Olympic gold. But I've felt that the fix was in after last year, when the judges responded to Carmen as they did. Even in that case, I could justify V&M's coming second at Worlds, because that dance was a little rough around the edges. OTOH, I couldn't understand their winning with Funny Face - that year I thought D&W skated a masterpiece and would have given them the title.

    I really want to be wrong about the fix, but V&M's marks give me reason to doubt. I'm wondering whether Skate Canada is focusing on a (clean) Chan for gold in men's, in exchange for supporting D&W for gold?

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist and would like to be wrong, though. And to be fair, I haven't seen D&W's programs yet.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  3. munow

    munow New Member

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    "Rough around the edges" effectively describes all of "their" skating.

    V/M won in 2012 because they are better skaters and dancers. They show superior skating every time they are on ice.
  4. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    This.

    My jaw hit the floor. I mean, we know Tessa is a beautiful girl but that cover is beyond. Since V&M are a team then the cover should be the both of them but just on the basis of the picture that jumped out at me, I could see why the Tessa only cover was one of the options. Stunning.

    I'm up too late as it is so I'll be back tommorow but I must be missing something on how CoP is supposed to be judged. Or somebody is. I didn't find V&M's performance of Carmen at Worlds rough around the edges at all. There were a couple of perhaps rough moments; small miscues/bobble's if that's what you want to call them. However, while those errors may have lost V&M points they should have been cancelled out by the points Tessa and Scott should have racked up in the rest of their dance. From the lifts, overall skating skills (we've been through this before), the constant movement leaving very little room to rest, the commitment to the theme of the dance. The fact that V&M are one of the few teams who can maintain speed and the connection with one another (keeping in character) while performing what was IMO the most technically demanding FD of last season. There are other things as well.

    Perhaps throughout the many changes that CoP continues to go through the above is no longer the case? CoP was made to be judged in segments and to rack up points as opposed to 6.0 where everything has to be considered then lumped together to come up with one blanket mark.

    There are so many things in icedance that are in your face and easy to identify even to someone not familiar with it. OTOH, there are those many small subtle intangibles as well that V&M do that keep getting looked over. Things that are just as difficult as the big tricks that the current audiences seem to identify more with.
  5. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    My take on the whole "rough around the edges". The judges have made it clear the last few seasons that V&M must be perfect to beat D&W. Thus we all sit on pins and needles nervously watching their performances praying for perfection.

    Well perfection is unrealistic. The problem is the difference in the way both teams skate. V&M are textbook skaters, smooth, great flow, great edges so the slightest deviation, the most miniscule adjustment is detected. D&W don't hold edges, hop and skip throughout their programs and are often on two feet. That makes it much harder for viewers to detect mistakes because their "style" is to skate choppy and hoppy so when they lose an edge or hit a toepick it's much harder to pick up because their choreography incorporates all these things.

    Whenever I go back and rewatch competitions after having viewed them live I am always surprised myself how much better V&M skated than originally thought. The only difference between the two viewings is the anticipation is no longer a factor, the nerves are gone, I only see the skating. And it's good.
  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Just saw K&C video. Maurizio talked about bad position (i think maybe in one of the lifts). And he said TS did there job, but - coaches didnt. So after this competition coaches now see better, what places they need to improve to made all positions and moves perfect.
  7. Lety

    Lety Member

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    Yes, I also heard him talking about it :)
    Sometimes (or always) it is necessary to put the programs out to understand what it takes to improve, and now they know what to do to solve what they saw during this competition.
    I can't wait to see how this program will be at the end of this month.
  8. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    THIS.

    Often, people want to see more and more and more, because they can always do more. But you can't keep asking an A+ student to meet your expectations because they are yours, and therefore, unrealistic. Why not judge them for what they actually put out on the ice instead of what people (judges included) want them to do? That's the biggest issue here. I've seen many people who aren't big fans of V-M or even indifference to dance in general receive this program much better than some of their biggest fans, because for the former there aren't nerves or anticipation involved, they are simply watching and what they see is brilliant skating; what the latter see is, "what, this? After Carmen?" and they disregard it based on what they CAN do, ignoring what they ARE doing.

    Well, you know what? That's not fair. Not when you know the resume these guys have. They don't need to prove to anyone how versatile they are, they do not owe anything to anyone. Why make demands of them? This is a solid program. Can it get better? Yes. And it will. Stop hurting about Carmen, it got shafted, yes, but that's in the past. Push your own hopes and expectations aside and see this program for what it is.
  9. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    I totally agree, Golightly. I love everything they do because of their awesome style, graceful elegance, but especially for the fact that they are so very versatile and willing to go places other skaters can't or wont go. Kudos to them I loved both new dances because they are actually dancing!
  10. icefan1005

    icefan1005 New Member

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    Adorable new picture from HPC. X
  11. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
  12. Zazy

    Zazy Member

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    It's fine that you preferred one program over the other, but the judging isn't simply meant to reward the best-constructed or most entertaining program. Die Fleidermaus was genius in that it did a great job at emphasizing D/W's strengths and hiding their weaknesses, but the weaknesses were still there and it's the judges' job to see through the smoke and mirrors of their choreography. Often the most popular performance isn't the one that deserves to win, this isn't So You Think You Can Dance.
  13. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I also agree with you both.....they ARE the best!
  14. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts exactly. When i see DF again I can see the little errors. VM skated FF better at 4c but they were enchanting at worlds......they always are to me.
  15. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I saw some youtube videos someone did of Die Fledermaus and Funny Face viewed from the waist down. It's amazing when you watch both how little D&W did with their feet and amazing to see V&M did so much more with their feet. Watching both programs during that season you could forgive someone who's first impression was the opposite. It "appeared" D&W were doing so much more because of their upper body movement and the reverse for V&M. I think to a better trained eye and a number of viewings it became obvious who skated the demanding program, and that team won the world title because of it.

    I´ll see if I can find those videos again but if anyone else has seen them feel free to jump in and post.
  16. Happy123

    Happy123 New Member

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    The youtube channel "99adep" has a few feet-only videos.
  17. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    I just mute the music with D/W - it makes it easier to compare their performance to V/M. Not long ago I did it with their Samson & Delilah and surprisingly came to the conclusion that they finished in the right spot.
  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Guys, what do you think about costumes? My thought is they will use darker costumes at SC for FD. Its like they show - we need to remeber Mahler and now will add some more mature details in costums :)
    I wish Tessa will have head bandan for SD. Like she had at wedding photo-shoot
  19. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I´m of the same thought regarding costumes. I'd like a bit darker ( I liked the purple ombre dress she wore in practice).
  20. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    I learn today that V-M uber waste lot off time on D-W watchig than there is some things about this team that makes you watch them so much no that you can not deny? ;) enjoy your watching and rewatiching with feets without feets on music off music so many ways to watch the team you hate so much :rofl:
    mollymgr and (deleted member) like this.
  21. DFJ

    DFJ Well-Known Member

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    Why are you here?
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I think this color look better on photos. (i mean purple).
    I wish long balroom dress fro SD, but not sure it will be easy to skate in something like this.
    And i dont want Scott use white shirt for FD.
  23. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely think they need to get new costumes ASAP and something that doesn't look like the Mahler ones. Tessa should do a different hairstyle, like wear it down or something. Also for the SD I think they need vibrant, bold colors--something with flair like a jewel/emerald green. Anyways I know none of this will happen , but I'm still putting it out there.
  24. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Green is bad luck in figure skating, so I don't think she'll be wearing that color.
  25. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and Tessa is superstitious. Although, she wore black for Carmen, that was pretty epic. Who knows?
  26. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

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    I'd like to see red or royal blue for the short. I know she had that red dress for FF, but I really hated that one (strapless looking skating dresses drive me crazy!). And maybe something in a different style. Tessa loooves those pale colored Mahler-esque dresses. (I do too though, haha) No clue about that free dance though... I really loved the pale blue one she was wearing. They're not all as similar when you can see all of the details up close!

    I know we don't get any say, but I'd love to hear what others envision them wearing!
  27. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    For the free dance, a darker blue or purple would work, I think. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6xFv8_8hA, but NOT that dress, not again. Just the color. Or a similar shade of blue. For the SD, it is trickier, gold, perhaps?
  28. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    I think that dress is close enough in style to the Mahler dress that even in a different color, it wouldn't work. I think she needs something in a different color and different style.
  29. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Most of us have put it on ignore. Not that you have to but if I could ask a favour don't quote it ;)
  30. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I love the mahler looks...puts me in a mellow mood.
  31. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

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    Aren't gold costumes supposed to be bad luck for the Olympics? I've heard that... I'm not superstitious but Tessa is... Lol (otherwise I think gold would look good)
  32. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    Critiquing a team does not = hate. You're being inflammatory.
  33. SenseAndSpite

    SenseAndSpite Banned Member

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    Riddle me this.

    My name starts with a T, as in trickster on ice,
    I can conjure up a leg cramp - Bam! - in a trice.
    To steal a win, I cheat cheat cheat without mercy,
    Like that slick stunt I pulled at this year's Four C C.

    Who am I?
  34. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  35. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    Someone suggested on another site, that perhaps the similar costuming was a deliberate choice and its purpose is to remind people these are the Olympic champions. I expect them to change it probably for the GP final but maybe at Canadians.
  36. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Just ignore iNap and don't quote it. Most of us have put it on ignore and when you quote it we see it's posts. iNap exists to push buttons, you can't reason with it so the less attention it gets the sooner it gets bored.

    The same goes for the latest idiot who just showed up.
    skateboy and (deleted member) like this.
  37. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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  38. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    :blah:
  39. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    She will look good in headband she should have one for the FD as well :)
  40. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    the ignore button struggle with the self controls buton ;)

    i was just starting to enjoy dress choice for Tessa but usual V-M ubers like innflamations too much :eek:
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