Virtue and Moir #28 - Something In The Way You Move

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Golightly, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Happy birthday to a very beautiful beautiful lady. May your star continue to shine.

    Oh and Pani, I had stopped the video at Tessa's final Carmen pose so I missed the message lol.
    Last edited: May 18, 2013
  2. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Suddenly I just got really sad that this time next year we won't be eagerly awaiting their music choices for the following season. :( This is one of those smille because it happened don't cry because it's over things I guess.

    I am very very grateful for the overwhelming amount of beauty and art and inspiration and athleticism and breath taking dance on ice they have given us. I will cross my fingers they stay healthy this next season and that they have 2 more programs they love.

    And Happy Birthday Tessa!
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  3. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Yes, (belated :shuffle:) happy birthday wishes to Tessa from me too!

    What I really hope is that they will continue to perform in shows for a long time, and that they will become more and more artistic, so we can then eagerly await the music news their for exhibition programs.
    Last edited: May 18, 2013
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Our Canadian friends, what is May 2-4 weekend ? Did you celebrate something?
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  7. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Its the queen's birthday

    Tessa's birthday :p
  8. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Happy Victoria day to all Canadians.
    I am back after holidays still a little groggy from jet lag but reading the boards slowly.

    Happy birthday to Tessa - yes she is a real queen and so queenly in her bearing.
  9. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    You guys was this digital mag article ever posted? I think I've seen the cover, but never the article itself. Anyways it doesn't really matter, it was before Worlds and everything they said they've already reiterated in other media outlets. And sorry if it's old news.

    ETA: I'm worried about V/M. A move to Igor was supposed to be theirs.
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  10. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    Firstly, thank you for the article. Old news are better than no news!

    And they would have never went to Shpilband. Pechalat and Bourzart were 6th at last world after winning the bronze the year before and struggled with their levels as well. As far as I understand it, it was more the idea of the french federation than their own. Right now it is not the best situation for them either because Capellini and Lanotte have beaten Pechalat and Bourzat last season coming 3rd in the FD section and I think they intend to do that again, inclunding the bronze medal. I doubt that Pechelat and Bourzat will be a serious threat to both teams at the top. Artistically, they are not there.
  11. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I feel that Nathalie and Fabian (Nathalie especially) are better dancers than Davis and White, but what's holding them back is the judges' perception of them and some speed. I do agree though that they have nothing on Tessa and Scott.
    And I don't think that CL will be Bronze medallists in Sochi - that will probably be Bobrova and Soloviev who will probably have better material like they did this year.
  12. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I just feel V/M are getting lost in all of this. I can see the American, Russian and now French federations going after them next season. And I'm sorry to say, but I feel SC just cares about Chan's chances of winning next season.
  13. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    And Katelyn Osmond
    The thing is though, that if you had a competition where the skaters had to vote for the winner and couldn't choose themselves, Tessa and Scott would win by a landslide.
  14. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Its interesting for me - are T-S are working now? Look like all skaters in there group are at vacations now.
  15. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Too bad the people that actually make the decision don't see it that way. You guys, this is gonna to be a very stressful upcoming season.
    I think they are too.
  16. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I wish they will work without other skaters on the rink. And i thought the end of the May - its next week. But maybe you are right and they are on vacations now.
  17. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    I thought they had some free rink time last week because of the whole wedding thing, weren't there pictures? Anyway, they deserve their vacation and I hope they have a relaxing one, whenever that is!

    I choose to stay positive about next season, until the program revelation at least. I might be naive, but it is less stressful. I just hope Skate Canada got the message of the fans on their Facebook page and twitter that people around the world actually prefer Tessa and Scott. Nevertheless, I think they get some support by the Canadian Olympic Committe, because they are mentioned quite a lot on their sites as the contender for Olympic Gold, maybe they can give Skate Canada a little hint how to do things right.

    Concerning the skills of Pechelat and Bourzat: I liked their programs because they were very different and I would give them the edge in the technical department to Davis and White (their lifts were great) and maybe they were the better dancers (I cannot really say something about that one) but I would say artistically they were on the same level as Davis and White. Both teams always chose programs that hid their artistic weaknesses (my opinion of course). Anyway, I think their Charlie Chaplin routine was one their best, because it demanded an artistic growth from them and that showed off later in their career.
  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I disagree about PB. I mean during all this years they showed.so many different styles. And last season FD show to me they could made any kind of dance enjoyable to watch.
    TS only second Canadian OGM in figure skating (I am not talking about SP, because I can't.to say they won or no). So all this poor PR of them made me wonder. We was talking about VM didn't there PR in socials network, but its SC and Olympic cometee post WP, who could become OGM only in team.competitions and didn't talk about.VM. And didn't show to people how difficult and new Carmen was.
  19. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    I think to only blame Skate Canada, Marina Zoueva and the judging is too easy. It is far more complex and in the end we don't know what is happening behind the scenes. What is important right now is giving them the room and freedom to create their programs as well as some time off. They are not doing any shows this summer and then come September, they can start promoting themselves in the media. It is not important to show them in goofy poses and with Canadian flags, it is important to talk about them being the best.
    Actually, the few articles we got during Stars on Ice were good, because they showed they were ready to take on Sochi which is important during that time.
    We think everyone gets more coverage because they are tweeting about it and as I said before Weaver and Poje tweeted more about themselves and then got re-tweeted because they tacked CBC or the Canadian Olympic Committee. Tessa and Scott are not into social media and at that point, with everyone having an opinion about their private life, it might be better.

    Off topic: Does anyone know, how long it takes after a taped show goes on air in Canada? We know that Tessa and Scott were at George Stromboulous Tonight at the beginning of May.
  20. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    With VM all, what SC are doing is look like - we don't need you anymore, we got all medals from you, which you could to win. Look at French federation - they wasn't.happy with PB situation and said buy-buy to Camerlengo. They try to do best in politics for there best skaters.
    And SC focusing on team events (hate it, because some skaters, who even never were on podium at WCh, will have the same medal with VM) and on Chan. Yes, they never could win 3 medals.
    So they sold VM. So now Russia, France and USA will unite against Canada at OG. And VM even didn't have coach on there side.
  21. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Tessa and Scott seem to be ok with all of this though or oblivious or naive, take your pick. They keep emphasizing in interviews that its them that's the problem essentially; all they say is we have to be better, we need to be perfect and we'll prevail. I don't think things are that black and white anymore, it's too gray now.

    Lola was it even confirmed they were gonna be on that show? I remember there being some confusion about it.
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they need to take few lessons from PB. They alwayse sure there programs are the best, they are the best, there competitiors are overated (and there fans agree with them too). :)

    I thought they was at that show. But we didnt see nothing, so maybe they wasnt.
  23. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    But unlike P/B, V/M will be accused of bad sportmanship if they do that.
  24. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    I've been one of those people who have been frustrated over V&M not being proactive to defend themselves and counteract the media onslaught against them but parapluies has a point. We've seen in the past what happens when Tessa and Scott (especially Scott) stand up for themselves by questioning the marks or even just talking up their many strong points. They/he are poor sports, arrogant, whiny....and those aren't the worse things people have said. Even Tessa's injury is question.

    V&M just seem to be in a no win situation.

    Frankly I can't really fault P&B for doing what they are doing. The French federation unlike the Canadian federation, realizes what needs to be done to protect and stand up for their top dance team and they are doing it. I only wish Skate Canada had been doing the same.

    From time to time I wonder if Tessa's condition in Vancouver and at the time V&M's not being sure they were going to stay in for another four years set the tone for how Skate Canada promoted them. I'm not blaming Tessa and Scott at all and as soon as they made it clear their intentions to stay for Sochi, Skate Canada should have been doing for them what USFS has been doing for D&W and what it appears the French federation is attempting to do with P&B.
  25. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Today, before OG season SC even didn't have the head of FS federation. Why they need to change all top managers of Federation now? And if SC couldn't stay for VM at home WCh, with Carmen, what could they do in Sochi?
    They think VM are not good role models for SC? Only W-P deserve all there support.
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  26. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Skate Canada is promoting their ice dancers much? I mean, I don't see them doing it for Weaver and Poje either, Pani. But W-P are more active on the social media, which is okay by me. They like Twitter, they interact with the Twitter world more, they are comfortable with that, that is all. Skate Canada is all about Chan and the team event at the moment.
  27. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    I checked on the tuesday they were supposed to go and they were still listed as guest alongside a comedian as guest panelist, he has yet not been on there as well. Unfortunately, I forgot to check the other guest for the week so I could put it into a weekly context.

    My last effort to spread some optimism:

    Firstly, whats next? All the federation of the world join together to bring Tessa and Scott down? I hope they don't get into a power struggle over who should win which medal. I honestly think we are all over-dramatizing everything a bit and should calm down. I don't say everything is perfect and peachy for Tessa and Scott, by far not. Everytime I see the double-standard with which they are scored, I get really angry and want to throw things at the judges or Skate Canada, but it will not help.

    Secondly, my supervisor for my B.A. thesis always said to me when I was complaining about my workload "Suck it up! You are not here to be pampered." It was the well-needed reality check! Anyway, do you think Tessa and Scott are sitting at Canton whining and throwing hockey sticks and pucks around? No, they face the challenge and try the best they can, even it might not pay off. But as far as I am concerned, giving up and whining is not an option for them.

    Lastly, my history teacher used to quote a lot. This one by Churchill stayed with me: "If you are going through hell and everyone is trying to talk you down, just keep on walking and make sure someone that cares is at your side." I think some people still believe in them. For instance, Jennifer Swan who will do their part to give them a hell of a FD and seems incredible loyal to them. Jean-Marc Generaux who seemed to have given them so much more than just a great SD. Their communities and families who will always love, support and have faith in them. In the end, they will always have each other, even it means we against the world.

    One more think: never ever underestimate the will power, determination, courage, heart and hard work of a human being. It can become the source of incredible strength and that is something I learned from myself!

    And the really last one: When Marina is not believing in them, why does she let them do Carmen with all its difficulty? She seems to me like an person who loves to have control over everything. Why does she give them every season these programs with new elements that challenge themselves and allow them to grow on a technical as well as artistic level? May be because she cares! (she is no angel, I know, but to say she does not care is a little too easy!)
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  28. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Because she knew it will be difficult to skate it clean and this will bring her daugheter gold at WCh?
    I cant see Marina did Carmen choreo.
    And if she told to everyone in Nice how she upset with DW lose, how VM could not heard this? And what did she said after this WCH? I dont care. Lets face the truth - she was pushing VM, when Tessa was her sons GF. So now 1 chance for VM is Maia will start dating with Fedor :lol:
    And they only persons, who let tp her to do all this - its VM. For me it will be interesting< how she will work with DW without VM at the same ice.
  29. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    I regret that I asked! For you, she is the incarnation of all evil and no matter what, you will always hate her. You don't even give her the benefit of the doubt or try to not see everything in black and white.
  30. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have different opinions. For you Marina is a angel, who try all her best for her skaters.
    My opinion based on what her skaters show on ice. I remember, what programs had BA, when Tanith stop dating with Fedor.
    I know she did "Fanny Face" choreo and was unhappy, when T-S won WCh gold with this FD.
    I know, she did "Carmen" for T-S but they must to change all choreo and concept. I think if her choreo was good, why they need to do this?
    She was responsible for what happened with Zhuck and Shpilband.
    So yes, i see her black side. And i know other coaches never start talking how they upset, when there team won gold at WCh, i simply couldnt imaging this.
    An i know people usually didnt try to change something just because they afraid to do this.
    And isnt coaches responsible for Tessas injury?

    So OK, maybe some fans and VM waiting, when Zoueva choose them to give them her best work. But i dont want to do this, because there are so many great choreografhers, who is much better, then Marina. Just IMHO.
  31. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I can see both your point of views. And I really appreciate your post Lola cuz I realize things have been gloomy in here for awhile and it can't hurt to infuse some optimism in here. I don't blame Marina for everything (she probably wouldn't even be number 5 on my list of who to blame if I had a list) and I do think she loves them, but she probably loves her pride more. And because she has two top teams it mostly doesn't matter to her which one comes out on top. In addition she has made some very questionable comments re Tessa and Scott; especially in the 11-12 season and her reaction at Worlds that year. Anyways I just don't trust her because I don't think she has their best interests at heart anymore. None of this matters, we're all just speculating from what we observe from the outside; the only opinion that counts is Tessa and Scott's and they don't have a problem with it.
  32. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, its just speculations. And at the end its no matter I am trust.her or no, I like her or no. Will see who was right at the end of the day. You know, I will be happy to be wrong, because in this case TS become happy :)
    But I never were Canton fan, or Zoueva, Shpilband fan, but just VM fan.
  33. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Ditto, I generally find her choreography dull and uninspiring, and felt that Igor was all about churning out teams who could do level 4 twizzles but who lacked finesse. That V&M could make me a fan in spite of that is a testament to their talent.
  34. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    I think that asking Skate Canada to promote any of their skaters as 'the best' will be the death knell for their careers. FS fans seem to save their worst vitriol for Canadians - I mean just read the threads on Chan and Osmond. And for what it's worth, if what has been said here about the US federation's pushing of DW to the detriment of VM is true, than it's poor sportsmanship and the same old nonsense from the past rearing it's ugly head.
  35. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Lets just hope Marina doesn't give them Ave Maria or Requiem.
  36. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    And what'll end up happening is that neither will win.
  37. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    Somehow, I doubt we are going to see either! She could never give them one of these or somethinge similar.

    Off topic (again): I asked a friend who works at a TV station about taping airing. She said it is different for every show obivioulsy. Sometimes it is life (mostly the Breakfast shows are life interviews), Debating shows are mostly taped at the same day because of the topics that are discussed. And entertainment shows with celebrities mostly depend on the schedule of the person. They once had Tom Cruise in the studio to promote his new film. The interview was taped three monthe before it was aired because he happened to film some sense in Germany and had some time, but the film was coming much later. It is aired when it makes the most sense, in Tessa and Scott case that could be before the season starts.
  38. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    This.

    It's not the programs and the training under Marina that I question. It's what happens once the season has actually begun. We've talked about this before that in icedance it isn't just about the programs and the actual skating it's all the politicking or promoting by the federations and coaches that also takes place off ice. Marina may have allowed Tessa and Scott to work with outside choreographers to really stretch themselves and explore new ideas but what good is that when she publicly makes comments that put V&M in a negative light. And I keep saying that Marina has been in the sport long enough to know how things work and she isn't naive or stupid. Especially in icedance revealing a weakness whether it's an injury or something else can be counted against teams.

    While some of our posts can come across as negative and being real downers, I don't think it's being defeatist but more like being realistic. Watching everything that has happened in the past two seasons in particular I just can't ignore those things. Maybe it's perception but V&M have to work twice as hard and be twice as good to get the scores. I do think that any skater has to share the responsibility for where their careers end up but there are outside things at work as well. I don't think it's all on Tessa and Scott when it comes to the season they had.

    I suppose now that V&M know what the judges are rewarding and if they once more choose to go the route of filling their programs with more challenging content that takes the entire season to gel then I suppose I can say they have to take most of the blame as they would have made a choice to be artists and push themselves over a shot at winning the gold medal.

    In the end Shayii is right. No matter what we think and how Marina's behavior comes across, Tessa and Scott clearly still believe in her.
  39. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. It differenct aspects skaters are responsibil for there careers too. All top skaters are adults, so...
    Now Camerlengo is angry on Pechalat. OK. But why Pechalat must care about this, if she have maybe last chance to win medal at OG?
    All this - Marina gave to us so many different things we couldnt left her, sound not adults. Or - wait, she will be upset and could do something bad for us.
    I agree - our thought sound realisics. And we all will be happy to be wrong, i think. And we all love, what VM are doing on ice. But what could we do?
    Maybe i must to tell something to Zoueva in Nice, in Moscow, Sochi :lol: (joking).
    Now we have long summer ahead of us. Time for life without FS :D
  40. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Yup time for life without FS and that is precisely what I will be doing for the next little while.
    Pani May 2 4 weekend is important for us as its the first weekend of good weather in Ontario so we can garden. But I was away so my garden is full of weeds and lots of work there.
    Then I think as July comes in I will probably start to watch all the old T&S videos to get me into the mood for the season.
    I will also probably go for the Thornhill ice dance show. I think thats where they debuted their program before the last olys and hope they go there ( 5 minutes drive from home) for the sake of tradition....