Virtue and Moir #28 - Something In The Way You Move

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Golightly, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much, iggie!
    Happy for you! Like all this little things :swoon: Its amazing how supportive Scott is.
    Did Tessa tell to us SD stotyline?

    :lol:

    Proud to be VM fan.
  2. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I think that was just an example of how detailed Jean Marc gets when he's setting the mood, but maybe she did inadvertently let something slip. ;) I love that he even asks "where is the music supposed to be coming from"... it's a good question. :rofl:

    One thing I appreciated learning was that Jean Marc had a history with them, which I didn't know. I like that their off ice choreographers are those who have really had a hand in teaching them to dance. She said they met him about 10 years ago at a seminar he was giving with his wife, teaching lead and follow (which Scott joked meant teaching Tessa to lead, and Scott to follow ;)). It's not as close as the relationship with Swan, but it's nice.

    I was also wondering, has Jean Marc spent any time with them on the ice? How does that all work? When they were at his studio, was he teaching them some dance moves which they will figure out how to translate to ice themselves?
  3. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even think of that. Now you've got me trying to guess (which isn't really working because I don't know many quickstep music). Scott is so amazing, great guy. And I'm very proud to be a V/M fan too. They're just stunning (on and off the ice) and I hope they felt good reading both books iggie put together.
  4. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Cherub, I also like that they have a history with their choreographers. It tells you that they are both heavily involved in the choreo process, otherwise they wouldn't call people they know and have worked with to lend a hand.

    I was wondering the same thing the other day. Interesting indeed.
  5. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Tessa is such a sweetheart :saint:
  6. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    Way to go iggie! That was beyond fabulous, thanks so much for sharing. The rice story had me a little misty-eyed as well. People can say what they want about Scott but he just rocks in my books, and probably Tessa's as well.:)What a sweetheart.

    On a completely selfish note I noticed you quoted me on your blog I suddenly feel very:cool::lol:Thanks again iggie! Keep up the great work!
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I dont think Jean Marc worked with T-S on ice. Just in studio.

    Guys. did you know, what Zoueva said to Jeffrey Paul Dore?
    http://www.openkwongdore.com/2013/04/29/episode-nineteen-marina-zoueva/
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  8. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    In the past, V/M would work with choreographers on the floor, and Marina (or Marina and Igor) would figure out (with Scott and Tessa) how to translate everything on to ice.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  9. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I know that in this case, Tessa and Scott went to Montreal to work with Jean Marc, and I don't know if Marina went with them (I have a feeling she did not)... do you know if the other dancers traveled to Canton? I think Grinenko did, IIRC. So would they videotape their rehearsals with Jean Marc, and then bring that to Marina to translate it to the ice?

    It seems to me, that in that system, Jean Marc isn't really choreographing a program per se (because he doesn't know the requirements for competitive ice dance, and it's difficult to choreograph without the sense of glide the ice provides), so it's almost like he's teaching them dance basics and some highlights and a program needs to be built around that. It's not like he can teach them a ballroom step sequence, just, I guess, the proper way to carry yourself in one. And it's V&M, as the dancers, who have to pick up the right way to do the hold, the feel of the dance, etc. Then V&M have to translate that into a program with IJS elements, with Marina and their coaches. Jean Marc can look at twizzles on youtube, and maybe give them some ideas to jazz them up within the character of the dance, and then Marina figures out if they can translate to level 4. Ditto with ideas for lifts.

    I find the whole process very interesting and I have a great respect for V&M if they are working with Jean Marc off-ice in one country and then with Marina on-ice in another country. It would be much easier to have everyone in a room together!

    I assumed, though I don't know for sure, that Jennifer Swan at some point does work with them at the rink. She said they tried a lot of things in the studio that didn't work out on the ice. I wish we could see the practices off ice. I wish they would consider doing an exhibition of their programs in a ballroom or a dance studio. "Stay" would be perfect for that. Winkler & Lohse did an impromptu bit of ballroom once on a talk show and it was a lot of fun.
  10. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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  11. Daniskates93

    Daniskates93 Active Member

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  12. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  13. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    My impression is that typically, Canton programs were largely choreographed by Igor and Marina, with off-ice choreographers giving the skaters a flavor of the dance -- some highlight moves, a basic feeling of how the dance should be presented, etc. I'm not sure how much of that would have needed to be videotaped, because I'm guessing, maybe outside of D/W's Bollywood OD and the Shibs recent Memoirs of a Geisha program, Marina would already be familiar with most of the dance styles, and the way moves are done on ice would be different from the floor, anyway.

    It sounded like "Carmen" was approached from an entirely different angle, where the majority of the choreography (or ideas behind the choreography) was first done off-ice, and then translated on-ice. That type of approach would be best done if the off-ice choreographer works together with Marina and comes to the rink to see what works and what doesn't. One of Jacquelyn Thayer's articles (I'm sure someone here has the link!) described the difficulties of this approach -- and perhaps suggests the reasons why this approach is not commonly used.
  14. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I think that's right. I always thought, as you say, that the experts come on later to add bits to the dances choreographed by Marina/Igor. Given the timeline for this year, I'm guessing V&M did not have a dance already choreographed with their SD elements before going to Jean Marc to add flair... so they would be learning the "flair" first. But maybe they did a rough sketch of their dance on the ice right after Worlds?

    It was so worth it though. :swoon: Artistically, anyway.
  16. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    If the product is primarily choreographed by Marina, the off-ice choreographers can come into the process at any time -- and depending on busy schedules, this type of flexibility is probably best. If they come into the process early, then they can help conceive a basic idea, if later, they can work on bits of presentation, etc.
  17. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I have got the impression ( dont know where) that V&M do a lot of their own interpretation and choreo work. Marina draws the program into a coherent piece of work. I think this could be why they dont want to leave her she allows them the freedom to forge their own destiny. To me that is the reason why their programs are so innovative compared to "they who shall not be named" . They dont need to be pushed but are constantly pushing themselves.

    Maybe one of our VM historians ( Iggie or Cherub) has already catalogued the growth of the Vm twizzle compared to others in the field. I know I saw something recently on this but maybe not covering the whole gamut of their work. If it did forgive me .... I now have the excuse of old age.
    Given that working with Jean Marc and Jennifer would come before Marina. it also gives them a chance to develop the programs in relative privacy.

    Since we know they go home on weekends it is quite likely that they work with Jennifer both in studio and on ice.
  18. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Just got through it. Nothing really that interesting. At one point he basically asks how it's possible to coach both V&M and D&W (paraphrasing here but that's what they were tiptoeing around). You can tell by the tone of her answer she is bored(irritated) of this question and in a nutshell compares it to a parent having more than one child. That they have different talents and she brings out the best of their individual talents. That it's about the joy of skating and with the joy will come rewards.

    Frankly find it all a bit pollyanna because both can skate the joy out of their programs and only one will see the rewards. ;) With that approach it's never her fault if something fails but rather the students.

    It's interesting to hear the guy asking her questions because he still sounds like a student talking to his coach. PJ also seems to have drank the Marina kool-aid ;)


    Most of it was about her life as a skater and coach. I found it a bit hard to follow unfortunately because she still has a very very strong halting monotone accent and the interview is long so I tended to drift. Not a diss in any way, I'm usually good at understanding different accents speaking english. Just an explanation for not really picking up much or giving a good transcript of what she says.
  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, bmcg! I have impression, I know everything about Zoueva career. And I think she is happy coach, because she could say she don't care about results
  20. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    I know this shows my extreme age, but I would love it if their SD music included some Scott Joplin. I would think his music would fit in beautifully with Finn step. :)
  21. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Bourne and Kraatz dance to Scott Joplin too?

    eta: Nm it was Tracey and Rob http://youtu.be/GWO4eG_EwG8
  22. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    Thank you so much, the pictures are great. In particular, the one from the World Champion number, how does Tessa hold herself up there and is still able to smile! Great!
  23. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  24. lola10

    lola10 New Member

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    Elena Ilinykh is probably a fan since the first minute, these photo are just so cute!

    And Shayii, where is the quote from Elena coming from?
  25. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Those pictures really remind one how young Elena is.
  26. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Hi, it's from Cherub's 28 page quotes book she put together for V/M. I asked for her permission to use it because I plan on changing my sig to a new quote every month as we wind down to Sochi! (There's so many I might do it every two weeks). This is the original source.

    I was going to do this yesterday, but forgot. I rmr pezazz saying she was going to the London show. I hope you had a great time!
  27. PEZazzz

    PEZazzz New Member

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    so I went to my first stars on ice show in london and i loved it. I took a friend who knew nothing about figure skating and she is now obsessed. I recommend on ice seats for anybody who can go because they are amazing. Jeffery buttle shook my hand! I thought the show was very clean in comparison to what happened at the hamilton taping show. just to add to meyers commentary, scott appeared to be in charge of the lifts in the championship number. He was the one telling them when to switch and always seems to be watching tessa or at least aware of her in all the group numbers. Jen swan was at the show too. BTW thanks to all who post SOI videos, i now appreciate the effort it takes to tape and watch at the same time :). my friend took some videos and i will post soon.
    *thanks shayii, I had a great time :)
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  28. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    i used to tell people when i quote them on the blog, but after a while, it didn't seem like people cared that much. but you're welcome.
  29. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. And I'm anxious to see the footage your friend got. In the pic meyers posted, it looked like Scott was concentrating the hardest (probably not the best way to describe it, but I couldn't think of another way) because his full attention and focus was on Tessa. He probably felt the most responsible as she's his partner and his was doing the bulk of the lifting--holding her thighs.
  30. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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  31. PEZazzz

    PEZazzz New Member

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    Yes, they truly have amazing connection. It was interesting because in their stay number, Scott missed a step in the choreography that was apparent probably only to me because I was so focused on them and then he winks at Tessa immediately after. They say they always talk throughout their routines and although the talking was not as apparent in stay, it was in Carmen. And just to comment on Carmen, I thought it was very good in exhibition form and what Meyers was saying about how they took a moment after bowing was very apparent and you could sense them taking in the moment. What else...to talk about other skaters, I thought joannie And Jeff's duo routine was pretty random but they seemed to be having fun. Ashley is a very clean performer that is all about nuances and finishing all her moves, its exquisite to watch. Megan and Eric were good and holy is Megan's back jacked lol. Shawn Sawyer is an amazing performer and absolutely loved both his performances. Kurt was amazing in how effortless he was. Patrick and Jeff were great to watch as well.
  32. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    just re-read your beautifully rendered account of your meeting with Tessa and Scott, iggie. Your writing is so vivid and textured. Like Shayii said, I felt like I was there with you. Thank you for making us all a part of this wonderful experience:)

    And the story about the rice was really lovely. They are so sweet to each other.

    Also, i love that quote from sequins. Sums it up perfectly.

    I would love that too!

    And thanks for the photos, Dani! I always love your pics, and these are just gorgeous.

    Glad you enjoyed the show, PEZazzzz, and thank you so much for your review!

    And thx for the link, clarie. Love that number:)
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  33. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I just want to know can someone dance the finnstep to Edith Piaf?
  34. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I believe that Piaf's "Milord" is in 2/4 time, as is the Finnstep, so it could be used, if it is played at a tempo of Music 52 measures of 2 beats per minute. I would not be at all surprised to see P&B using it.
  35. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I have a funny feeling they won't be the only ones to use it or other Edith Piaf songs (like Il ne se passe jamais rien but I am not sure if it has the same tempo of the finnstep it feels more like a foxtrot). I hope Tessa and Scott use french music since they are working with Jean Marc. :D
  36. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I am sure P-B will not use french muisc two time in row.
    Someone from Shpilband or Zoueva skaters could do this. because Chock-Zuerlain use Piaf music for "Golden waltz"
  37. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    pani, I was thinking about that, but this is for the Olympics, and teams often seem to pick themes that are strongly associated either with their lives or their countries, so P&B might do French music again.

    No one complains when Russian teams do music from Russian composers and Russian films year after year, after all.

    It isn't like P&B used Piaf this year-they used Cancan and Yves Montand.
  38. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting comments by Margaglio about the differences between ballroom on the floor and ballroom on the ice, as well as the difficulties of judging "dancing" on ice: http://www.wintersport-news.com/12004,News.html

  39. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I read this interview before, thank you, sap5.
    This what T-S did with latin. They talked a lot about how to translate hip movements on ice. And they did great job with this dance.
    Now i hope they will try to do the same with Quickstep.
  40. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    :) Love V&M's skating.