Virtue and Moir # 27 - ROAAAAAAAAAAR

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by rainbowkisses, Mar 18, 2013.

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  1. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Didn't they say that the gold should of been theirs? This is why I love Russia :lol: If the native walls couldn't have helped V/M this year then hopefully the Russian walls will help them in Sochi.
     
  2. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Some of us will wish it to be so. Since Canada was sooooooooooooooooo good for D/W this season, perhaps Russia will show their love to V/M next year?
     
  3. ofdarkness

    ofdarkness New Member

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    Late reply, but yea, it confused me a bit. Though creative and artistic are not interchangeable words. She could mean that the concept of VM's program is more innovative, but perhaps she thought that DW showed more traditional expressions?

    Also from a few pages back, the issue of posture. When we look at still photos from both teams, the difference in posture is very obvious. We have to remember that judges see this live, and sometimes in slow motion, but they don't have the time to freeze every frame to examine for such details. DW's speed is effective in hiding any unfinished movements or body positions, simply because it's too fast for the eye to see; after all, judges do not have inhuman vision. I'm just suggesting this as a possible reason as to why they were not marked down for that.
     
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if we ask judges, or Blumberg they will say - you couldnt compare on the photos, but only in motion.
    But i disagree with this. I remeber one russian FS commentator said (Vasiliy SolovieFF): "The differnce is best skaters look perfect even in slow motions".
    So maybe i am wrong, but if judges think they are so close this could made the difference - to watch elements in slow motions. And they saw skaters at a lot off competitions in the season, during practice so i am sure, they see this difference, but dont want to show this in the marks.
    If you will watch D-W twizzles in slow motions you could see- they are not perfect. But i agree - i reall time you coulddnt see this.
    But russian commentators didnt saw Tessa mistake in SD from There places too.
     
  5. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I remember back when A&P were competing how it was discussed that you could take a series of photos and every one would look great. It's not about who has the prettier still shots, to get a "pretty" still shot requires a lot of control and skill on the part of the skaters. Tessa and Scott work hard and need amazing skills to make it all look so pretty, natural and easy. Never forget what Tracy Wilson said last season, that they make it look so easy and she doesn't feel the judges and others understand how difficult it is doing what they are doing because of that. It's a lot harder to do all the elements ice dancers are required to do AND do it the way Tessa and Scott do it. It's not as hard to whip around the ice on two feet and make things look busy by hopping, pulling and running around the ice. Chait and Sahknovski did it, FusarPolli and Margaglio did it. They also got rewarded for it because it seems even the judges get caught up with the illusion of it all. It's also a lot harder to notice mistakes with this "style" because their running edges are only in the step sequences. About to trip or lose your balance? Turn it into a hop:p

    After this season I´m not even going to pretend they are equals. I would LOVE for Marina to choreograph both teams a SD where they BOTH hop and skip and run and pull each other across the ice and a FD without one single hop, skip, run, pull involved. Where every element has to be entered and exited on an edge, on one foot, all twizzles elements consist of a series of three and then we can put to rest the notion they are so equal that it all comes down to level calls. ''

    Just needed to say that out loud.
     
  6. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for saying this. I have been thinking this forever.

    To me VM is all about control. They can do the difficult steps in slow motion, holding their edges and creating those picture perfect moments.
     
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    So, how do you think, when we will have information of T-S programs in CSOI? Or only when CSOI tour will start? :D
     
  8. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Probably once it starts? Maybe follow the twitter of some of the skaters who will be on the tour. I think the Kerrs are and they seem to tweet a bit. When do they normally meet up for practice? For some reason I'm thinking rehearsals last year were started while V&M were at WTT?
     
  9. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I thought they will post CSOI programs with skaters list and programs. I think i saw somtheing like this on Kurt files site.
     
  10. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right. Was just watching this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3MMlIfAFgA&feature=youtu.be
    I like that Kurt puts some effort and choreography in this show. Kind of wish I could fit a show into my schedule.
     
  11. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Was reading a write-up on the DubeMoir blog (link here) and she had some interesting things to say about the still photographs -- along the lines of bmcg said but in more detail. A few things stood out to me like
    Some interesting points to ponder, I think. The writer makes a good case as to why many of us believe that V/M should be getting monster PCS scores at the very least.
     
  12. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see this but Marina will never do that. She is good a choreography around M/C's weakness. Hopefully one day both teams will participate in an exhibition where they would do eachother's dances!
     
  13. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Didnt D-W skate new exibition with V-M moves and in Tessas dress?
     
  14. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    And how did that comparison work out for them ;)
     
  15. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I'm not expecting Carmen tbh. I feel like it will be too difficult to cut it into a show program, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do. I think we might see a new ex though.
     
  16. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

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    thank you for posting the link! everything that's on there is enough argument to educate d/w fans on why v/m are the better skaters all around and should be duly rewarded.
     
  17. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    I heard that Platov said they could be the first team since them to repeat gold does anyone have the source?
     
  18. iggie

    iggie Well-Known Member

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    thank you!

    i didn't say anything because i wasn't actually done. i just wanted to post those bits, because i didn't just want them to sit in my drafts till the summer. this series is so much work to put together and it felt never ending. i thought that someone would find those parts interesting, while i worked on the rest. i'm not done even now, but i finished it enough so that it's relatively complete and organized ... and i can talk about it.

    the series is called, piecing together what happened to carmen (according to the media). i went through every article i could find this season on tessa and scott's carmen and then created these posts (quotes, analysis, etc.):

    introduction: links to all the following articles are found here so you can start here and get the whole series
    skate canada
    cup of russia
    gpf
    nationals
    4cc
    worlds

    there are a few more posts. when those are done, i'll mention them. and if you know of more articles, send them to me.

    i do hope that those involved in the creation of carmen, especially jennifer swan, tessa and scott, read the debut/skate canada post so they know how much we all loved (and still love) carmen. it was incredible to write it and so moving to reread it. i'm also touched you all love it. i can probably tweet it to jennifer swan since she's on twitter. i don't know when she'll see it though. ...

    honestly, since that post is done, you can send it to whoever you wish, talk about it wherever. and since the series is organized too, you can talk about that elsewhere too. let me know what you do with it since it's nice to keep track of things like this, but feel free to spread the word.

    edited ... i write too much nowadays. this post was too long. you guys can click the links and read the info there. the blog is now in chronological order with these posts so you can just go there and start at the top and make your way down to the end.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  19. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Just a note to those who like to laugh at the people in this thread. No, the writer of the blog with the D&W analysis/secret baby theory is not the the same as the writer of the article some posters here mentioned being moved by. Too very different people. Some of you are getting so predictable and ridiculous with your snickering. :rolleyes:

    That's all I'm going to say about that. I'd rather keep the "crazy" here in the trashcan where it belongs.
     
  20. iggie

    iggie Well-Known Member

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    there are people who mix up the v/m bloggers? :lol: if you're going to mock us, get it straight. yes, there are two main v/m bloggers ... me and she who shall not be named.
     
  21. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Really? Cool! What did she say? It is especially interesting as she and Kostomorov did their own Carmen.
     
  22. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    They thought you were the other blogger? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
     
  23. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Yes, please keep the bloggers straight. Please.

    I do want to say that although the other blogger has had some, um, interesting things to say in the past, it's clear that she (I presume she) is very knowledgeable when it comes to skating. The analysis being done is all backed up in visual images that can be verified by simply cross-referencing the videos available to everyone on youtube and the COP, available on the net for anyone to read.

    Iggie, thank you for all the hard work you've put in going back through all of the articles to try to dissect how the narrative changed in the media as the season went along.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  24. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Sigh…again? :rolleyes: Can't these people just take the exit to the left. But we're too crazy to give up. Whatever if we're entertaining to them, it's all good.

    Misha I'm seriously so proud of the work you've put into this. Also idk if you were here when this happened, but there was a fake Tessa on Instagram but people assumed it was the real one, Oksana G. said she loved their Carmen. I wish there was a way to ask her what she thought of it more specifically.

    ETA: Parapluies, I posted that link to the Platov article, but I don't think it works anymore. Here's where I posted it originally http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?87479-Virtue-and-Moir-27-ROAAAAAAAAAAR&p=3879262&viewfull=1#post3879262
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  25. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

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    Yup it still works! Thanks! Also how old is the article?
     
  26. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    2011? (not hundred percent sure about that). Also I meant the original link to the original article doesn't work. And for manhn you can find the Navka quote on iggie's blog:
    Reading iggie's series there were some things that resonated with me, such as the double standards:
    Seriously though I remember how people jumped on Tessa's quote.

    Also this about Marina's confusion about the FD score from GPF:
    So what happened? Your series has given me so much to think about.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  27. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    I haven't finished reading everything yet but iggie, you are amazing. Between you and the DubeMoir blogger, there is more than enough on both sites to back up what we have been saying about V&M. It must have taken a long time to get all that down. Huge props to you.

    Unfortunately, no matter how well documented both iggie's and the bloggers posts are, some people will still see what they want to. And sadly the bloggers other, um posts will only cause those people to dismiss the things she says that are actually skating oriented. It's too bad because like iggie, she has done her homework, knows skating and presents her skating arguments in a concise informative way. Both iggie and the blogger can take the ISU rulebook and with the use of video, gifs and pictures, lay it out and show why it should be favoring V&M. It has nothing to do with overzealous fans just wanting a win because we love V&M.
     
  28. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    How such crazy person, like me, could stay away? :) Thank you, iggie, one more time for all your job! I have impression nothing good could be tell about VM in FSU police opinion. Its sad VM didn't have wizard hairs, small dogs or they didn't talk on twitter about "go, blue!" and we have nothing to talk about :-( and still discuss VM elements and programs. And of couse, people, who love both teams, didn't see nothing good in VM skating and programs, but just happy the best ever win over and over again.
    As for Zoueva quote. She talk with journalist, who is huge DW uber at.GPF. So even if she want to say something about VM it was dismissed by Vaitscehovskay, who want to post only about how DW are better. Like with other Zoueva interview in CoR, which was made by VM uber, who wish talk only about them and how Carmen is amazing.
     
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Or, and its.just me, who think people have right to post what they want in there blog?
     
  30. icefan1005

    icefan1005 New Member

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    Found the article; this was after CoR. Article
     
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