Virtue and Moir # 27 - ROAAAAAAAAAAR

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by rainbowkisses, Mar 18, 2013.

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  1. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you wanted me to judge, but here's my toonie's worth of opinion.

    Krylova's Carmen is electric and strong. None of this "ohhhh, I soooooooooooooo in love" BS for her. She sees what she wants and she goes after it. I see some parallels with V/M's take on it, like the going crazy part and how both ended with Carmen seemingly the victor. And as the story supposedly goes, at that point, she was. I see that both of these teams decided to not take the story to it's apparent conclusion. Doesn't make it wrong, only different. Different isn't always a bad thing.

    One thing I did notice was the number of stoppages in the dance -- time to catch one's breath, perhaps, given how fast they moved across the ice. Stoppages was something you didn't see in V/M's version. Tessa & Scott were always moving, always performing, doing so quickly and incorporating a great deal of difficulty. It's too bad they were not really rewarded with it.

    Listening to old Dickie -- his comments were quite funny. He didn't like it because it wasn't the "usual" Carmen. He found her to be OTT in her expression although he did say her face was riveting. I don't think he meant it as a compliment. I wonder what he thought of V/M's take on Carmen which was less OTT yet more seductive.
     
  2. HSGP21

    HSGP21 New Member

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    Has Krylova commented at all about Virtue and Moir's Carmen? She's amazing, and I'd think would appreciate what Tessa and Scott did with their skate this year!
     
  3. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Not that I'm aware. She had great things to say last season but I think this season Krylova had more than enough on her plate with her injured teams. Also P&B had a disappointing result, Didier is pissed off, so I don't think Angelika commenting on other teams at this point is in her best interest.
     
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Before this season, when we found T-S will use Carmen for FD, we watched all on ice Carmens and off- ice Carmens too :)
    Of couse, we watched famouse K-O "Carmen". You could see all "Carmen" in iggie amazing blog :) (if you want).
    For me the difference K-O and V-M "Carmen" - is Tessa. If Anjelica were very agressive and strong, when Tessa show all kind of emotions - she play with Don José at the begining, she love him in the middle part and she want to be free, she is aressiveand of couse, then we saw her madness. She get what she want, but she isnt open agressive fighter, like Anjelika, but she play with José`like reall woman and killed him, when she didnt need him anymore.
    In B-B Carmen version, for example, they didnt show love site of Carmen and José`realtionshios. But V-M did this. I think it was Zoueva plan - to show all emotions in this relationships with strong love theme in the middle.
    Maybe i am wrong. But this is my interpretation of V-N FD.
     
  5. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  6. tapper88

    tapper88 New Member

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    I like the photo where Scott is looking at Tessa from the table, it's cute.
     
  7. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    It is so amazing how they have this entire town behind them. It is something that doesn't happen very often in this sport.
     
  8. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    It's the return of the "yellow people"! Actually I thought it kind of cute. Was that Scott wearing a yellow vest as opposed to the others who wore T-shirts? Whoever it was, it made me feel co-o-o-o-o-o-o-old.
     
  9. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I thought that was his brother. His nose is a bit longer ;)
     
  10. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    you have a point. With Krylova all you see is anger and delerium. Carmen isn't a one dimensional (or rather 2 dimensional) character that is always angry and crazy (maybe to Bizet and Prosper Mérimée she was so I guess you can say that krylova's Carmen was accurate :lol:.) With tessa you see a bigger range of emotions that are albeit subtle.tessa's Carmen is flirtatious, angry, confused, scared, and you can really see carmen's self-destructive personality. just because someone doesn't go over the top when it comes to projecting emotions doesn't mean they aren't.
     
  11. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Its Charlie :)
     
  12. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Wow, it's been awhile since I watched K/O's Carmen. Thanks for posting the link, Doris. :)

    IMO, it's interesting to look at the two different Carmen interpretations done in different eras by two all-time great, legendary dance teams.

    ITA. Both programs have the darker, more violent overtones and take a look at the emotions behind the story, but from different perspectives. K/O's program is a look at Carmen and Don José as individuals, as you said, while V/M's program was a look at their relationship.

    I think V/M's program is far more complex than K/O's and I give them the nod for having the better program (thought K/O's is certainly magnificent in its own right!) as V/M told the story entirely through dance movement rather than storytelling more through theatrical interpretation.
     
  13. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that Tessa & Scott didn't skate in that club show.
     
  14. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    I think they didn't because it was more about those kids and they would've eclipsed those other shows.
     
  15. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    ITA. They haven't skated in the carnival in a very long time, and yes, that club show is all about those kids. They deserve to have their chance in the spotlight without being overshadowed by Tessa and Scott.
     
  16. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Did you know something? I an wonder, what they are doin now.

    They didnt skate last season because they need to be ready for WTT. Another time i think they were at vacation.
     
  17. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard that Tessa and Scott have skated in this show before? Have they?
     
  18. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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  19. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I read this on Russian. Thats why VM need another coach - Marina couldn't talk about there strong points and about TS FD. Or maybe she didnt see this strong points. Just like last season she was upset and now she is happy. I don't think its good thing she try to made impression this is bad judges did everything and she is an angel.
     
  20. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I have always hated that argument. Suzie Wynne used to say that a lot - "it's just what you like!"

    Why have a rulebook, then?
     
  21. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Lol IDK anymore. I give up. And maybe Tessa and Scott have conceded also.
     
  22. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    If Tessa and Scott weren't retiring, they'd probably leave Canton. As things are right now, I doubt they will.
     
  23. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    This situation just sucks. It's like people are afraid to say what makes Tessa and Scott so good; there has to be an asterisk there, that their "friends and rivals" are they're equals and this and that and everything else. Even Scott has changed his narrative. And you're right the fact that they have only one season left probably wouldn't motivate them to leave.
     
  24. m_chenning

    m_chenning Active Member

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    Amazing how so-called "reasonable" D-W ubers glad for that "rivalry". What could learn T-S from them? Nothing. (a especially in terms of elegance, beautiful lines, extension and class of skating ( and sure connection) This comparison is insulting. It's profanation of the sport. Enough of that. Tessa and Scott deserve some respect and their OWN coach with full attention. Why not to let such friends to stew in their own juice? Tessa and Scott are not a toys for such kind "joyful" ....puppies (hi DJ, yes :D)
     
  25. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    *delete
     
  26. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    I would really love to see V&M leave Canton/Marina as well but at this late date I realize it just ain't gonna happen. I'm not even sure it's because Tessa and Scott have conceded and are at peace with next season as much as it is that they still trust and believe in Marina. I don't agree but V&M still seem to think Marina is looking out for their best interests.

    m_chenning, I also think that V&M need a coach who is not training the two top teams in the world. Tessa and Scott need someone who can't/won't hold back in talking them up in the press and making sure everyone knows just how brilliant V&M and their programs are. A coach who when a program like Carmen and the way they skated it the night of the FD doesn't win can feel free to come out and voice his/her displeasure.

    I've seen people say that what some of us believe to be true about Marina playing favorites is not true; that as the coach of both D&W and V&M she can't single out one team over the other. However that argument doesn't hold up for me because when it comes to helping to "talk up" V&M, Marina is mum yet she doesn't seem to have the same issue with D&W. Marina doesn't hold back when telling the press about all of D&W's amazing qualities. When she did speak publicly about Tessa it was to talk about Tessa's lack of confidence and her leg issues.

    I've also seen some of the D&W fans say that we shouldn't be upset when V&M lose. The two teams are so even, the results could skew either way. It's great for the sport and exciting for us no matter which team wins.

    The funny thing is that all seems to go out the window when V&M win. All of a sudden the rivalry of two equal teams becomes politicks and V&M winning because of poor judging. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.
     
  27. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    If circumstances were different I could see why Didier would be pissed off but given Fabian's injury I'm not sure what he expected. Disappointed and worried for next season I can see but pissed no. Would he rather have another DomShabs situation?

    I loved K&O's Carmen and at the time they skated it, it did seem ahead of their time. One thing K&O's version had in common with V&M's is that it went completely over the heads of most people. Most people seem to feel the "real" and proper interpretation of Carmen is more like that done by Katarina Witt. Flirty and playful with a death at the end. The story of Carmen doesn't seem quite so simple. After K&O's Europeans performance it seemed that the focus became mainly about Anjelika's expression particularly in the middle portion of the dance. It's a shame because everything else that was so wonderful about the dance ended up being eclipsed. At least in the NA press.

    Also with the stops - most programs during that time were constructed that way. I'm not even sure those stops were about resting (although it did give K&O a couple of breathers) as much as they were integral to telling the story and to accommodate the change in music tempo.

    I've always felt that K&O are one of the all time greats and IMHO they were the last of the great Russian dance teams. There were a couple of other Russian team who came after that had potential to be greats but for various reasons the careers of those dancers never advanced once they entered the senior ranks.

    K&O's Carmen FD also illustrates exactly just how brilliant V&M are all around as icedancers. Carmen was one of the most if not the most difficult FD's ever attempted. Even the stops were more theme oriented than Tessa and Scott trying to rest. To be fair, back when K&O skated there was more room for interpretation and storytelling in the FD's. V&M skate in an era when the technical demands make it far more difficult to tell a story on the ice. So for team V&M to have come up with the program they did was incredible. Everthing teams like K&O have done in the past, V&M have taken it way beyond what was thought to be possible back then.

    I love that we got to see Carmen but sorry that the FD did not get the appreciation it deserved. That V&M were not recognized for exactly what it was that they did. I don't even think some people really quite realize how difficult the Carmen FD was and what it took to make a program like it under CoP. Especially in an era when most teams settle with the connect the elements type programs and the judges reward that. I do think that as time passes, Carmen will be talked about even more and in very positive terms.
     
  28. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Carmen Ovsiannikov , happy you are back :)
    At the begining of the season Zoueva said Carmen must get orld record at the WCh. Maybe then "moms" said to her - if this will happened, or you will talk about this , we will take our babies from you. Joke, but she never said this after SC.
    And as for coaching situation. Like i said a lot off times before. Friendship (fir all, who belive in ut) will become more close, when they will work in different places and will not work under this pressure every day.
    Did you remeber, how Charlie said he wake up every day with thouht he didnt get medal at 2009 WCh?
    Or how D-W talking about they think, they won WCh in 2012?
    And what Scott said after they lose 2011 WCh? I will work hard to return my first place on disk. This is all about V-M. They are thinking they could change everything, if they will work hard. When there friends know, not only hard work could help. ;)

    As for Carmen. If this was other team, i will say this amazing FD will bring them success next season. But with V-M itsnot the same. When all teams need to do eleemnt on +1 to et +3, V-M need to do element on +6 to get +3.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  29. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    CO - I totally understand about the "stoppages" and how often they might have occurred back in the day that K/O competed. It was not meant as a slam on them, merely an observation compared to what we tend to see in dance more often now.

    And your post gets a "thumbs up" from both hands from me. I'd rep you if I could.
     
  30. Manaud

    Manaud New Member

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    Watching the two of these programs back to back brings a ton of attention to K/O two foot skating.
     
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