Virtue and Moir # 27 - ROAAAAAAAAAAR

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by rainbowkisses, Mar 18, 2013.

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  1. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  2. ddtpdx

    ddtpdx New Member

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  3. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    I have to say hearing/ reading so many skating legends say how much they enjoy the pure skating of V&M is thrilling to me. Carmen is my all time fave FD. That means it is over Toccato & Fugue by K&P which was my fave for 20 years.

    V&M have been and will always be a gift to skating. That they are Canadians is jst icing on the cake to me.

    Hope they kick butt next year and go out in a blaze of glory. ( though I wish they would stay)
     
  4. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Emdee and rainbowkisses. You explained it really well, Golightly.
     
  5. PEZazzz

    PEZazzz New Member

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    I notice in the pictures how other coaches always transfix on V/M. I'd like to think that just like in the Ice, Sweat, and Tears documentary where patrick chan's quads were used to teach technique, Tessa and Scott are used as well for teaching purposes. I think they are the epitome of finesse.
     
  6. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    This is some truth but alphabetes is wrong. D-W starts with D E F alphabets then go back to E. In end they do A and complete with big T ;)
     
  7. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Youtube compulsory dances and V&M are there from ISU releases I think.
     
  8. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Great post!!

    Just by looking at the twizzles you can already tell world of difference. Besides doing the actual twizzles, V/M's angle of their shoulders, the tilting of their head, arm movements, all match the theme and the dance. The sequences from Mahler to Latin to FF to Carmen are not interchangeable. For D/W, even though they are lightening fast and almost all the time in unison, I always feel when it comes to their twizzle sequence it's as if they just tell each other grab their blades and GO. Yet they are the one that receives +3s all over the place and higher marks for choreography and interpretation... What I wouldn't give for a judge to speak up like the one (forgot his name) did regarding Plushy's transition marks.
     
  9. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    This comes from elsewhere on the internet, but these are are videos of the V/M's, P/B's, and D/W's FD's from the GPF. They're shot from a perspective where you can see how each team moves across the ice. Your jaw is going to drop when you watch the twizzles. Two words: ice coverage.

    D/W: http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...UUEyd0dP_Pvpl1k45InGNtPQ&v=-1M_3TzHrdo#t=114s

    V/M: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SNFYNiHTH8&feature=player_detailpage#t=73s

    P/B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...=38GQf00A5_g&feature=player_detailpage#t=109s
     
  10. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Quite interesting. To be fair, though, Tessa and Scott have connecting steps that also help them cover more ice.
     
  11. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    the videos dont work for me
    also remind me again why v/m lost gpf?
    also the new twizzle post on the blog that must not be named is killing me :scream::rofl: i bet they read fsu
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  12. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly -- that extra push into the second set of twizzles is why they cover so much ice. Great twizzles, though not really directly comparable to D/W or P/B.
     
  13. ddtpdx

    ddtpdx New Member

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    my gosh, i haven't visited that site in a long time.
    but that was worth it!
     
  14. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    idk about you guys but i dont think a couple should be getting a higher GOE for doing the same set of twizzles every year compared to other dance teams who change them up alittle to reflect the pattern dance
    the isu is screwing itself over by not following its own rules

    idek something is fishy here :sekret:
     
  15. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    I'm not talking about the total distance covered from the start of the first twizzles to the end of the third set. Of course the third set is going to add in more distance as P/B and D/W only do 2. I'm not talking about connecting steps either. I'm talking about the ice that each individual twizzle in the entire set covers. D/W's second set barely travels.

    Rainbows, try the links in my original post, not the ones that were quoted.
     
  16. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    I don't think so either. I get that teams are going to reuse from time-to-time, but reusing the same set of twizzles for both programs for 5 years is a little excessive.
     
  17. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    That was incredible! HOW did they not win the FD??
     
  18. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    How did they not win the FD AND the world title? The errors in the SD weren't so bad as to be fatal, especially considering the considerable strength of the FD.

    When I was a teen in the late 90's, I was a huge fan of Chicago Hope. In one of the second season episodes, Mandy Patinkin sang a version of "The Emporer's New Clothes." It's been running through my head for a week now.
     
  19. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    and its not like D/W were perfect in the SD either

    also i was reading an old article and it said:

    :rolleyes: so? everyone in the moscow arena thought that v/m should've won in 2011

    but this made me think. where are all the canadian articles claiming that v/m should've won this year? does the canadian media suck or are the american media a bunch of douchebags? idek as I said before if v/m plan on beating d/w they need to step up to their level when it comes to PR. at this point in time i wish i was a journalist lol
    perhaps if skate canada played dirty like the usfsa and started whining that v/m should've won this year maybe they'll win next year :lol: ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  20. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Which was exactly my point. D/W's second set does not travel as far because they don't have the extra push into it. There is no set-up time either which makes it more difficult to synchronize and maintain speed. Meryl & Charlie are able to keep up synchronization and speed wonderfully, IMO.

    Once again, I don't think anyone is picking on V/M's twizzles, but they really aren't directly comparable to D/W's or P/B's because the pattern is so different. All three of Marina's teams have fabulous twizzles, and I like that each team takes a different approach to that element.
     
  21. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    Awesome analysis. You give voice to what I feel and cannot express myself about why I prefer V&M.
     
  22. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    And D/W's first set is aided by their hop.

    P/B and D/W have similar set-ups with two sets. P/B's second set travels further than D/W's. years.
     
  23. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    The hop does not aid Meryl & Charlie in attaining speed, flow or distance -- that's what makes their twizzles all the more impressive. There's a world of difference between pushing into a twizzle and hopping from backward to forward into a twizzle. Meryl & Charlie's twizzles are arguably the best in the world, and their scores reflect that. There are other things that Tessa & Scott are the best at, such as their edge quality.

    As a fan of both teams, I'm able to realize that they each have strengths and weaknesses. Obviously Tessa & Scott's twizzles aren't "weak" by any stretch of the imagination, but they do tend to score lower than Meryl & Charlie's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  24. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    which imo don't get. v/m should be getting more points for their twizzles for being more original and having twizzles that capture the character of the dance.

    because there is no way that the same twizzles D/W have been doing for the past 3 years can capture the character of the tango, waltz, polka/ballet etc.
     
  25. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I prefer V&M, but I have admit it's amusing to see people finally noticing the things that many of us have been complaining about D&W *AND* B&A's skating for years only now that it's negatively affecting V&M. :slinkaway
     
  26. icefan1005

    icefan1005 New Member

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    Great post! I do like how Tessa doesn't grab Scott's shoulder, but softly lays it there. Regarding how V/M & D/W present themselves, AJ also had a post explaining why Tessa is the flower and Scott is the stem of the team. He pointed out how the opposite is true for D/W, that people's eyes go to Charlie. I can't find it anymore though.
     
  27. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    wat

    whatis that suppose to mean?:confused: pls specify
     
  28. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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  29. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to argue either teams twizzles here, but no matter if I agree or not, simple physics is actually saying that you're wrong. Not only does a hop create an extra force thus can throw you easier off-balance (think car in a turn; the faster the more likely it is to get carried out of the turn), it also creates a condratictory force to a turn in many ways. If you hop, you have to land which is actually a break in the movement; your knee needs to bend and then to push up again so you can turn and travel. And the body direction of the hop and the turn are two different ones as well - the hop goes straight, the turn, obviously, rotates. There are a lot of counter-forces at work with the hop.
    Having said that, I'm not saying D/Ws twizzles are more difficult, all I'm saying is that the hop certainly isn't aiding anything other than maybe the Level they get for the twizzles.
     
  30. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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