Virtue and Moir # 26- There's no place like home

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    One other thing I love about Scott, people are dwelling on Tessa's twizzle mistake because it's the most obvious one but Scott in that article also pointed out he messed up on the step sequence and costed them a level. He is always so protective of Tessa.
     
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  2. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    On a lighter note (sort of ) I'm now convinced PJ Kwong's predictions are the kiss of death (like the black mark of Tarasova). She predicted Chan in third and he has a very comfortable lead sitting in first. She predicted V&M to win and we all know how that's looking. So PJ in the future when it comes to ice dance just cop out with a "it's too close to call" please ;) :lol:

    eta...Regarding the talk about nerves I just think the training situation doesn't work for them anymore. I know they disagree but I think they need a separation, some distance. They used to have nerves of steel, you watched and just knew they would deliver. I think the overtraining prior to 4CC was because they knew D&W were doing run through after run through so they would be on autopilot and it affected them enough to change their training regime instead of just trusting their plan. If they didn't see D&W everyday that probably wouldn't have happened. I've said it before and will repeat that Krylova saw this coming last season. I don't particularly like Pascale's choreography so I don't say that's a solution but I think they would get a breath of fresh air training with Krylova (who clearly admires them and sees what is special about them) and being around Kaitlyn and Andrew and Chan if he does indeed move to that club.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  3. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Honestly i only feel sad they did this 4CC. Before at Nationals Tessa looked so strong, so on. They needed? like Chan, spend more time in Canada before WCh. Its not like they won, if they didnt go to 4CC, but Tessa still healthy, if they didnt made this trip. IMHO.
     
  4. blueglass

    blueglass New Member

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    They've been struggling with errors all season, but it really hasn't been Scott who's struggled, it's been Tessa. That's why I believe it's her legs, because it really looks like the 2009 season all over again when she couldn't trust that her legs would do what was required of them. You can't separate the level of confidence from how she's feeling about that issue. They're Olympic champions - they know how to deal with competition nerves.
    I agree that the situation in Canton just isn't working for them. I think D&W have used it to their advantage to improve in many of their weak areas by observing what they need to copy, and intentionally or not, are impacting Tessa's confidence by showing how much harder they can train. It also comes out in other ways - I can't recall even one interview where I've them complement V&M's skating whereas the opposite is true for Scott and Tessa who always acknowledge D&W. Zueva, because of her friendship with V&M, has in fact let them down. So where could they go - I'd like to see them come home. They could move to Montreal with Marie-France and Patrice or to Vancouver with Megan and Aaron.
     
  5. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I think they only could go to Novi. Maybe Toronto, but isnt Tessas school is far away?
     
  6. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    And sorry - i responsible for 20 pages was post in this thread. Sorry.
     
  7. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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    Hm, lots to think about on the way to work. . .
    There are two issues, the question about their ability to train intensly, however they managed to win Olympic gold with her legs in far worse condition. The other is the type of programs which are being rewarded. Their strength is to make the difficult look easy, well they need to do the opposite, make the easy look difficult by skating at breakneck speed, for example make a ballet look like a polka.
    For this competition - I'm still confident that they will win the FD with Carmen, but it won't be enough for the gold. Sadly for them, and us, their mistakes in the SD were costly. In spite of everything else I believe about what is being rewarded, the fact of the matter is they didn't skate their best. (it so pains me to put that down in writing).
     
  8. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    get well soon!
    i felt like i couldnt breathe last night too! sometimes i feel like im more nervous than tessa and scott when it comes to watching them compete :lol:
     
  9. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    This may be a lost cause but Tessa and Scott are 3.25 points behind. Last year they won the FD with 2.68. It is not unthinkable that a great Carmen with all the levels can make up that amount so let's continue cheering for our favorite team and sending them all the good vibes!
     
  10. tut88

    tut88 Member

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    don't know if this is a health problem of tessa, or problems with nerves, or for DW pushing.
    If they will decide to change coach I think they may want to go back to Igor.
    Mf and Patrick have no experience to work with such a pressure, Aaron too.

    I just hope Tessa is well. Then I'm sure they will do, if necessary, the best choice.
     
  11. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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    Pani - you don't have to apologize for anything. Sometimes you get carried away because of your devotion to VM, but you're honest and you often put into writing what my gut reaction is.
     
  12. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    OK, had a decent night's sleep, took my sinus meds and am ready for another day.

    Still sooooooooooooooooo gutted about last night, and not only for V/M although that is the largest part of my sorrow.

    I'm with those who really believe that V/M need to "get out of town" aka changes coaches and training venue. I thought they would be OK for them to continue training there, but I've changed my mind. It's obvious to me that D/W have taken some of the special touches of V/M -- their connection, for instance -- and added that to their blazing speed. Some things that have worked so well for V/M now seems to be mirrored by D/W. Add in that D/W tend to recycle a number of moves to the fact that the judges insist that speed is the almighty separator and what do you get -- a team that appears to be unbeatable. Well I'm not buying that kool-aid. It reminds me too much of another team that was about speed and NOT about the things that are supposed to be about dance. There's a reason it's called DANCE and not short track racing (although I enjoy that sport too LOL).

    BTW, I'm still ticked that an AMERICAN asked for a review of the step sequence knowing darned well it would open up a larger gap between the two top couples. She knew how well D/W were scored, knew that V/M got level 4 on both their YP compared to D/W who only got one, and I think went hunting to find something else that could knock another point or so off V/M's score. She didn't know how the judges would score the GOE, but I'm thinking she had a pretty good idea that it wouldn't be a good as D/W. The bigger the gap after the SD, the more likely HER team wins gold.

    OK, I remember reading earlier here who does what on the Tech Panel but for the life of me, I can't recall. Off to do some homework ...
     
  13. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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    profdeb: are we certain that it was the american who asked for a review of the step sequence? How would we know that?
     
  14. icefan1005

    icefan1005 New Member

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    Before this, I thought staying with Marina was better for V/M since she has a close relationship with them, but I don't think it's a good idea for them to stay in Canton anymore. It's now very apparent how different the training atmosphere is in Canton, and I agree it doesn't seem to favor V/M's interests.
     
  15. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    Scott's error was obvious. For any caller not to have asked for a review having noticed it would have been unthinkable. No conspiracy there. :rolleyes:

    I too was hoping for a V/M win, but always hoped that it would come down to skating on the day. D/W were cleaner last night. I'm pleasantly surprised the components were as close as they were as I'm sure several marks were adjusted accordingly based on the night's performances. Had the small errors gone in the other direction we would have seen the reverse results as we did at 4CC. D/W are ahead as they skated as well as they could have last night. V/M did not.

    Hopefully this will take the pressure off and we'll see Tessa and Scott able to skate freely tomorrow. If they skate as well as they can there is a good chance they'll come out on top at least for that portion. It may not be enough for the overall title, but would allow then to leave on a good note. I for one am happy they skate first as they'll just be out there skating for themselves.

    Bring on Carmen! :encore:
     
  16. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    The Tech Panel was thus:
    Referee: Hilary Selby
    Technical Controller: Ingrid Charlotte Wolter
    Technical Specialist: Marie Bowness (CAN)
    Assistant Technical Specialist: Judy Blumberg (USA)

    Here's a quick summary of who does what:
    - The Technical Specialist, assisted by the Assistant Technical Specialist, identifies and calls the performed elements and the specific Levels of Difficulty of certain performed elements (e.g. Spins, Footwork,). He/She identifies illegal or additional elements, identifies falls and adds, if applicable, innovative elements.
    - The Technical Controller authorizes or corrects all calls, supervises the Data Operator and can propose corrections, if necessary.
    In case of disagreement, the majority among the three Officials prevail.

    So it would seem that Bowness of Canada originally called a level 4 for V/M footwork, Blumberg asked that it be reviewed as she thought it was a level 3; I'm guessing that the Controller sided with the level 3 call, since that is what V/M ended with.
    Off to try and find out who is from where ... digging through the ISU site.
     
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure D-W were better on 4 points, sorry. I agree on 2 points :D D-W were perfect& Why nobody see how many snow was under there skates? I strongly disagree with there World record and 10th.
    Why if D-W get 10 Chan didnt? He is uch better skaters :)
    But OK, i am crazy, dont pay attention.
     
  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Bowns and Blumberg had difference levels and all depend on what Ingrid Charlotte Wolter thinking about this :)
     
  19. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I know I´m the one who made the original snarky comment about wondering who called for the review with a ;) face but I'm pretty sure the TC can also call for a review so it´s not possible to say with certainty who called for a review. And before others who read this thread with hawkeyes and run elsewhere to mock us run with the idea Bowness tried to sneak in a level four that's as ridiculous as claiming with certainty Blumberg called for the review. Sometimes they just make a call knowing they will go back and review because they have to carry on watching and calling the rest of the program.
     
  20. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    For the part I've bolded, I wish to respectfully disagree. D/W have made "small" errors in the past and NOT been penalized for them. They've been a tad off in their twizzles, no call, they've been off on footwork synchronocity, no call. They have more often than not been given the benefit of the doubt when they make small mistakes and their PCS don't suffer for it either. However, just about every time V/M make a minor mistake, they get dinged for it both in TES and PCS. I still think it's because the judges are blinded by the speed at which D/W perform most of their dances. They make it very clear that they are fast, fast, fast whereas V/M cover the same amount of ice in almost the same amount of time without looking like they are rushing. It's about the perspective that one team is faster than the other, and quite frankly, they aren't.
     
  21. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    I completely agree with this. And nowhere is it more obvious than when you see both teams on the ice, at the same time, i.e. in practice.
    Still, that doesn't change the fact that Tessa and Scott did make those mistakes last night. Without them, I am convinced they would have won the SD. The tiny difference in PCS confirms that.
     
  22. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    ITA, and it is beyond frustrating. Like you said, D/W make small mistakes on things all of the time and no one says a word. They have all of the benefit of the doubt in the world. V/M are never given the benefit of the doubt; they get dinged on both the TES and PCS sides if they so much as have a finger out of place. It makes me so sick.

    ETA: Last year, I was one of the ones who adamently felt that V/M needed to leave Igor and Marina. I changed my mind this fall, thinking it really didn't matter who they were with. Now, more firmly than ever, I think they need to get out of there. Clearly, whateve benefits there are to training with D/W are far outweighed by the disadvantages at this point. Like some of you have said up thread, I think going to Novi would be a very good thing. They would have the benefit of being Igor's number 1 team. He knows them as well as Marina does, and I think they would have all of the attention they needed out of him. Most importantly though, it would get them out of an environment that in no way seems to be working for them anymore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  23. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Vairsehovskay interview with Zoueva.
    Use google translation, please
    http://winter.sport-express.ru/figureskating/reviews/29542/
     
  24. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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    Hi, I'm back :) I watched Tessa & Scott yesterday (I didn't fall asleep! :D).
    When the scores appeared, I was like - WAIT. WHAT. JUST. HAPPENED.
    I almost started crying. +Bobrova/Soloviev took 3rd place. Wtf is this shit.

    Anyways, In my theory - it's gonna be too hard to get the gold. If D/W do all right they'll get ~112. V/M need to be 115+ scored. That's not real. I think they can win only if D/W goes wrong.

    Hugs for you all and remember - the hope dies last. (these are very popular words in Latvia, it means - never give up, if it's not over yet.)
     
  25. NarumiAyane

    NarumiAyane New Member

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    I'm pretty sure that the University of Windsor has an online Ed program, if necessary Tessa can do that for a year
     
  26. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6DEXnyQUUg

    Was this posted here?

    P.S. Tessa said:"We are so excited about this Carmen program, and it's hard to believe it's one of the last chances to perform it..."

    So I'm pretty sure, they'll be in WTT.
     
  27. Sonata

    Sonata Active Member

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    What I really hope is that they win the FD convincingly. Their Carmen is spectacular and it can bring down the house. If they perform to its potential, they can win the FD and this will set them up nicely going into Sochi. Remember last year, they seemed to lose favour despite winning the world championships, as there was a lot of talk about how D/W should have won the FD. The opposite can happen here.

    D/W deserved to win the SD, but I am a little perplexed by how high the score was. They are a good team, but I really notice the lack of polish. Great consistency though.

    BTW, with all this talk of V/M doing a ballet for Sochi, I just want to point out that the National Ballet is performing Romeo and Juliet in Toronto this week.... It's not far from London.
     
  28. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Some of us were thinking about making a V/M forum, a place where we can post freely (and not worry about having our posts taken elsewhere so we can be mocked and made fun of). What do you guys think about this?
     
  29. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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    Where are our posts being made fun of? I would like to see this for myself.
     
  30. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Can someone please summarize the interview? I can't read in on my phone. I don't understand why Zueva can't wait until this competition ends to talk about them. The last thing they need before tomorrow is speculation about Tessa's health.