Virtue and Moir # 26- There's no place like home

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    what i dont understand is how can one set a WR by only getting a lvl 3 on the yp sequence:lol:
     
  2. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    ((((Ioana)))) I was thinking of you and all the other V/M fans there live tonight. And gosh all their family and friends there too :(. The pressure was just too much and I'm so proud of them. I hope they're not too hard on themselves.
     
  3. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    No, I didn't. I sat numbly through the final group of skaters and then I went to the media center for the press conf. During the draw for the FD Tessa and Scott sat with the Germans (Zhiganshina and Gazsi). Scott was goofing around with Gazsi, they seemed very friendly.

    DDtpdx, for them to skate Carmen to its full potential is my biggest wish too, but I doubt they're going to be at peace any time soon (about this result). Scott was grinning, when he probably just wanted to smash a wall or something, and Tessa just seemed numb. They broke my heart. I'm glad they have a day off to recover a bit.
     
  4. elle123

    elle123 Member

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    Just had a chance to catch up. My nerves were going crazy and I knew in my gut before watching that something would go awry. So proud of Tessa for holding onto those twizzles, though, and can't wait for Carmen on Saturday!
     
  5. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

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    lol i would love to see a picture with him and the germans
     
  6. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Thank you so much, IoanaC. You are really wonderful about providing us with info and impressions.

    Nice to see you back, elle123:)
     
  7. elle123

    elle123 Member

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    Thanks BKfan! :) I wish it were under better circumstances, my friend! That being said, with their imminent retirement, I'm going to focus on the positives instead of dwelling in the negatives.
     
  8. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    I will try to do the same. It is nice to have your positive energy around here at this time:)
    I can't wait to hear your thoughts on their FD.
     
  9. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    With V&M, even if they had skated lights out and ended the evening in first there would still have been nasty barbs thrown their way and the way of their fans. I've become so numb and used to all the crap that comes along with being a fan of V&M. I learned a long time ago to stick mainly with this V&M thread.

    I wish someone could hypnotize Tessa and Scott so that they can take everything in stride and stop letting everything get to them. It just seems that no matter where they are competing, the stress and expectations get to them and this time being at home didn't seem to calm them as it did in Vancouver or even in practice in London.

    I hope they can skate Carmen the way it deserves to be skated and end the competition on a high note. (((((((V&M)))))))

    Something positive is that I was thinking of V&M earlier and realized that they have medalled at every World Championships since 2008. Whether 1st or 2nd, Scott and Tessa will collect their 6th consecutive World medal Saturday night. Not bad at all considering everything that they have been through and continue to go through (be put through).

    Thanks to everyone who was in London and took the time to give us updates. It must have been a difficult evening and I hope for once V&M can forget last night (at least for Saturday night) and just relax.

    ETA:
    I think if Tessa is having an issue with her legs again it's because of the overtraining. It makes me sick that V&M keep pushing themselves trying to find ways to make up the points all season. IMO there was nothing wrong with their programs (except for that original lift in the SD at Skate Canada), it's just that the judges favor a different style.

    Also, trying to push the sport and advance it seems to be lost on these judges (at this in this quadrennial) so why bother with another "Carmen."

    If Tessa is having issues with her legs then I wonder will backing off from the overtraining and the crazy difficult content will help once she is has a chance to rest during the off season. I love that V&M brought us Carmen and have a FD for the ages that will be talked about long after this season has ended but at what cost?

    I hope the retirement rumors aren't true (no matter who it might be) and if they aren't then I can't see V&M doing another "Carmen." It hasn't been fully appreciated by the judges. I realize it's too soon to talk new programs but V&M, if they are staying in and are serious about wanting a second Olympic title should/will stick to what the judges are responding to and stop killing themselves for nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  10. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Carmen O., I agree with everything you said, except that I don't think Tessa's legs are such a big issue now. I know her problems will never go away, but I believe she's managing them. If she were in pain, she couldn't skate so superbly in practices. The big issue is, in my opinion, nerves. They really do need to learn to control them and not get overwhelmed in competition, otherwise they don't stand a chance next season.
     
  11. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    They never seemed to have problems with nerves in the past. Why now?
     
  12. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    Thanks IoanaC.

    I'm glad that it doesnt seem to be Tessa's legs. Or at least that it seems Tessa's legs haven't gotten worse than they already are.

    For all the talk about Scott being cocky/arrogant I think that when he has spouted off in the past, it wasn't due to being conceited but to help boost his and Tessa's confidence. If Scott was really, truly that arrogant I think V&M would skate better under pressure because any low marks would be dismissed rather than V&M going back to training and overworking to try and figure out what more they could have done to get the marks.
     
  13. vmfan82

    vmfan82 New Member

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    Hello everyone! I woke up 1.5 hours before my usual to watch the SD. I slept terribly... I was too nervous.

    here is the link, btw: btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y25YXIV0VUY

    I think they skated beautifully, but perhaps were a little nervous than usual? Taking in consideration how much pressure on their shoulders they have... (a quote from Scott "... I think this is probably my favourite competition of my career, because I can care less about what the 11 [Judges] think, I care more about the 10,000 sitting behind them.” explains it all. It is from this article http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013...r-face-uphill-climb-at-figure-skating-worlds/).

    Anyways, I am very proud of them, they are the king and queen of ice dance for me, no matter the results. I wish them all the luck for saturday!!
     
  14. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Wow it's like you read my mind. I have always thought that Scott carries the burden of being confident for the both of them. And Tessa has admitted in the past that she's not always the most confident person. How do they overcome this hurdle (more of a rhetorical question)?
     
  15. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!! Even live I don't get the D/W buzz/hype. Nor why on earth they seem to be able to be sloppy in certain areas and not get nailed for it the way others do.

    I think you mean Tracy Wilson, not Debbi Wilkes. Debbi hasn't done any Skating Commentating since being hired by Skate Canada for their Media leadership position.

    As for who called for the review, I'll guess they have the Stars and Stripes somewhere on their Passport.

    Weirder things have happened this week!! Look at the falls going into spins that have happened. Strange is not the word for it.

    The bolded ones are true and I can't figure it out either. The other two...I actually thought Worlds was being pretty fairly judged until tonight's SD. So much for that... :(

    Amen and about GS...I have enjoyed skating so much more since joining Twitter and following events that way. I can't even remember the last time I was over at GS come to think of it.

    And I like it like that too.

    You know who the really big loser here was? The sport. It wasn't just Tessa and Scott tonight, but Kaitlyn and Andrew too. Even w/only a L3 StSeq (Thanks Tracy for harping on that over and over tonight BTW), there is no way on earth they should be below B/P in the standings at the very least. I was floored because it looked like Nathalie and Fabian were the ones off the ice since early December and Kaitlyn and Andrew the ones who never missed an hour of training. And yet...What happens? Kaitlyn and Andrew in 6th?

    Add that and what happened w/Tessa and Scott and I think we all know where this is headed *yet again*. So much for the vaunted brand new scoring system that stopped all the funny stuff in skating. I *know* I"m going to hear that at least once the next few days from someone.

    As for Tessa and Scott and also Patrick not being "beloved by Canada"...It's a different time and era. 2002 did so much damage to the sport and then in the act of being seen "doing something to fix it", the ISU rams in this overly complicated new system. Regardless of what you believe, casual skating fans will never really get their heads around it. Hell...I've tried several times to read the various literature out there explaining it and I still don't get it. Then there's also the fact that to many the new system has taken out the beauty of the sport.

    I know many who will charge into battle about that one too and I could care less because that is sadly how many casual and even die hard fans are thinking. Sure, there are still programs out there that can touch my soul, but it sure doesn't happen as often as it did once upon a time. I mean...What's the point of choosing...Say...Riverdance for a FD these days. You can't do the steps that would fit the music because they would never meet the Level 4 standard and instead we all see these lovely gorgeous edge work that I do love, but also pigeon holes both skaters and choreographers w/music choices.

    All of that comes into play when understanding why the skaters of today aren't the Rock Stars of even ten years ago in the Public and Casual Fan's viewpoint. The saddest thing of all is that the ISU really didn't fix a thing IMO. What's the point of a new system if you've got the same rotten eggs on the Judging Panels from back then?

    And as for Marina blaming all of this on the dress...If that one's true, then I think that's the best sign of all that it's time for Tessa and Scott to leave Canton and go somewhere else for next Season. I actually think it's a couple of years overdue considering it's becoming obvious, especially this year, just who is thought to be the real *stars* of the Skating Centre from Marina's reactions in the Kiss and Cry.

    Okay...Sorry for the epic, but once I started....Anyway, here's to an epic and knock it out of the park performance of Carmen on the weekend. They can do it. I know they can!!
     
  16. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it's just that everything has finally started to take a toll on them. Tessa and Scott are feeling the effects of the past three seasons.

    For the entire quad we've had that "rivalry" and even when V&M have skated well they have still been kept very close to D&W (even when D&W have mistakes). V&M get dinged for every little infraction and when they skate as they apparently did last night they get really marked down. Now on the surface it is fair and from all accounts the marks they received were accurate yet when the shoe is on the other foot, D&W make mistakes that either get ignored or the judges seem to deduct as little as possible; the GOE's don't even seem to reflect any mistakes. When they are ahead of V&M, the margin has traditionally been a lot wider.

    The fact that it has been the PCS rather than the TES that D&W continue to win over V&M perhaps has V&M questioning themselves and how good they actually are.

    Maybe it's that V&M know they have more to lose and in front of a home crowd. They really wanted this title; it seems even more than last year or 2011. At least in 2011, they had lost the entire season except for Worlds and the SD and part of the FD at 4CC's. V&M wanted to win the title in 2011, but were able to be relaxed about the silver because they were coming off of Tessa's surgery/recovery and a very brief season.

    Last season and this season, they came in trained and had the entire season to compete yet had problems getting levels no matter how good they skated.

    I don't know anymore, just guessing.
     
  17. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Oh I totally felt gutted for P/B too. Especially after they came back from injury like Kaitlyn and Andrew.
     
  18. vmfan82

    vmfan82 New Member

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    I can just imagine because they are in their hometown.
    I am so sorry if I offend someone with the following, I apologize beforehand, but here it goes: I never liked the idea of those yellow sweaters in the arena. To me, that just adds an unnecessary stress. Scott and Tessa know that their families and friends and all their supporters are there, maybe even exactly where they seat. I may be mistaken, but that bright color may be not only a visual distraction for them, but worst, what it means: winning expectations. I am not saying that is the reason why they did not win the SD or anything. Perhaps seeing the sweaters does not matter to them at all. But I though that the plan was to stay in their bubble as much as possible.
     
    maggylyn and (deleted member) like this.
  19. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    pani, I realize you're upset right now, but give it a rest w/the "Canada doesn't deserve them" crap. As a Canadian skating fan, not only is that disrespectful, but also insulting to not only me, but my fellow Canadian Skating Fans in this thread.

    It's also not true. A sign of the direction the sport's gone in since 2002, yes. The fans in Canada not liking or appreciating them though? No way. No how. Not ever.
     
  20. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    I haven't had the courage to look anywhere else yet. But I do find the comments here sustaining...Thanks, guys.

    I just want to see them rebound and give Carmen their all.
     
  21. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    It was a hard night with both V&M and P&B not doing as well/getting the placements that they have the potential to.

    I will say though that while I'm disappointed for P&B, I'm not as gutted for them as I am for V&M mainly because of Fabian's injury. When he and Nathalie announced their intentions to compete in London, I was happy to get a chance to see them again but in the back of my mind felt there was a chance they wouldn't be back to 100% just yet. Even under the best circumstances, P&B sometimes have issues with consistency and with Fabian still recovering it's not surprising.

    The good thing about P&B's placement in the SD is that the judges have a much smaller margin between them and B&S than with V&M and D&W. While I'm not getting my hopes up (if P&B were shaky in the SD, I'm nervous about them getting through a 4 minute program), I still see a chance for P&B to move back up to 3rd.

    With the Olympics next season though it may hurt P&B to lose the bronze to B&S. But I don't know what would have been worse. To "lose" a spot to B&S by having B&S win the bronze in their absense due to injury or the possible/probable? loss of the bronze as a result of finishing behind B&S.

    I am happy that W&P seemed to have skated well though.
     
  22. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Carmen, W/P didn't just skate well, they ROCKED the House!! I have *never* seen them skate like that before and it wasn't just happy to be there either. It had attack, it had fire, it had joy and when you combine all three w/lights out free skating and you get what Kaitlyn and Andrew produced tonight and I am so beyond thrilled for them. :D

    Now, about what you were saying about how we're now in the third year of "The Rivalry" and how that's got to have some kind of an effect on not just Tessa and Scott, but Meryl and Charlie too, and as I know all too well due to how things are here at home, when stress builds up over a long period of time w/out a break of any kind and... That can do some funny things to both the body and the mind. Combine that w/all the tinkering of the programs, which I didn't think needed doing BTW and IMO, and having to see Meryl and Charlie not have to do much of anything other than practise, practice, practice and....

    You made some excellent points that I hadn't thought of and thanks.

    And now...This time, and I really truly honest to goodness really and truly mean it this time, I am going to bed after click Post Quick Reply. It's almost 3:30 am EST and 11:55 am EST when the Pairs FS starts on Bold is getting closer and closer and closer....
     
  23. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Way to go Kaitlyn and Andrew. Maybe we should sit them down and have them chat with Tessa and Scott before the FD. I hadn't been planning on watching any of the SD's (at least not yet) but will go back and watch W&P's.


    Aragorn, I'm sorry you are having stress issues. And yes, unfortunately I know as well from personal experience what prolonged stress can do both mentally and physically. I hope things get better or have already gotten better for you.

    That makes me go back to Skate Canada earlier this season and Tessa throwing up as soon as she left the ice. At the time she was said to be suffering from a virus but I did wonder if it was nerves more than the residual effects of being sick with something that was going around.

    Even at the beginning of the season, the "rivalry" had been promoted long enough and the marks have been mostly in favor of D&W long enough that it might not have been far from the backs of V&M's minds even at the start of a new season. It must be hard having to second guess everything you do and even if you skate well, you end up sitting in the kiss and cry waiting for the other shoe to drop. Each time that happens it further ad's to the stress. I can just imagine V&M having a "not again" reaction.

    As for Meryl and Charlie, while I question their position as being practically unbeatable and equals to V&M, I don't doubt that they put in the practice time as well but I'm not sure the "rivalry" has effected them mentally or physically at all. As you said, all they seem to have to do is practice, practice, practice, show up and and skate and the marks automatically come mistakes be damned. D&W must be aware by now that the judges for whatever reason mark them as the top team of the last three years. That in and of itself must help D&W in the confidence department and help bolster their belief that they are deserving of every win and cheated in the few instances when the wins don't come.

    We've seen a number of their fans echo that. Well, the judges say through the marks that they are the best so it must be true.

    And you're welcome. :)
     
  24. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the judges are harder on V/M because they are the reigning Olympic champ and it's more exciting to have a rivalry so they tend to disregard the things used to be important in ice dance and favour D/W. I also think D/W got a big break this quadrennial with the removal of the compulsory dance.

    As for the nerves, this is not just a home country competition but literally the home base for V/M. I like that Scott's mentality that they are now here to put on a show for the home crowd and maybe he could share those thoughts with Tessa before the FD. Maybe since D/W totally dominated the world of Ice Dance this year they will have the extra pressure in the Olympics season and now V/M are seen as the underdogs. I always have the image that in figure skating, it is better to be the hunter than the hunted...
     
  25. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Just want to say sorry because of what you all read about all VM fans, when this was just me/ Now i will try to delet all this messages and made Cyn happy. I understand her - her idols already won, but i think, she could be a little more kind.
    And i lioke idea - no 3 spots if VM will not skate in FD. Thats what they need to do - W-P need to work along.
     
  26. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about hypocritical people. And considering how crazy we are in here, she sure spends an awful lot of time obsessing and analyzing and reporting back on posts made in this thread. You would think one would want to avoid such craziness. It must take one to know one I guess.
     
  27. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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  28. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Shayii. I deleted messages so i hope this will help to all of us. I feel sorry we have police in this thread, but this is forums rules and i want all VM ubers will be in save.
     
  29. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    No problem. And you didn't have to delete your posts. If it makes some feel better about themselves (thank god they're not crazy like we are) to go in the limited access section and talk about this thread and V/M fans, then let them go at it; the irony is amusing.

    Not sure if I can't sleep because I can't breath (stupid cold) or from last night's disappointment.
     
  30. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Get well soon!
    In any case - they could talk about me, but not about all others in this thread.