Virtue and Moir # 26- There's no place like home

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    In that article Igor had a very insightful comment about I&K (that they practiced so well but then all of a sudden in the SD the speed they created got away from them and they couldn't control it to get their levels). We always knew Igor was more of the technician, but now I wonder as I did last summer if Marina is in over her head with anything less than a very healthy, technically proficient team who can train a lot. Her comments about Tessa really don't inspire confidence in me - we did all the necessary stuff with the doctors, but she still feels nervous, so, oh well. Isn't part of the coach's job to prepare the skaters mentally for these situations? To say you're still the best despite it all? But then how can she when she also coaches their biggest rivals.

    I've never really been a Marina fan, and there are stories that she stole G&G away from more technical coaches, got them by on pretty choreography in 1994, and then was never able to produce anything until she hooked up with Igor. Now she has thrown Igor out but is she really able to deal with all these technical things? And with Margaglio by her side, bless his heart (and FP&M are one of my faves, that's not a bash)? Igor is certainly doing a great job with C&L and C&B so far, although there is also poor R&T, mired in 13th place (not sure if they have been working with him much since the summer).

    I don't care where they go as long as they continue to work with Maria Mountain and Jennifer Swan.
  2. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Thanks for posting the translation. I don't know what Elena V. has been watching, but Tessa most certainly did not look heavy and slow in practice. Quite the opposite. And Zueva should not be making these statements now. I don't like this.
    I will.go to tonight's practice. The afternoon one is scheduled during the pairs last group.
  3. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Lol and I'm seriously wondering why you care so much either way. Why does it bother you whether it causes us any angst or not; if it causes us angst, it's our prerogative. It's not like we're bothering anybody and most of these "crazy" V/M fans just stay in our little thread anyways, so what's the deal?

    Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or cause any problems. I just asked a simple question and it looks like people aren't even interested anyways, which I'm absolutely fine with.
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! Enjoy today competitions!
  5. PEZazzz

    PEZazzz New Member

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    I am happy about the start order tomorrow. I'll be at the 8:30 practice and there for the freedance. Not to be a child about it or anything, but D/W come after tessa and scott in the free dance and I hope they feel the resentement of the crowd. i'm actually excited and I think I will enjoy myself knowing there is nothing more lose. Let the pressure be on D/W
  6. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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    I don't understand why Marina would feel it necessary to make a statement about Tessa's confidence in the middle of a competition, even if she was asked a direct question, there are many ways to answer. Perception is everything, in competition you don't want your opponents to capitalize on any weaknesses, whether real or perceived. That makes me question Marina's devotion to VM as a team, or at least as Cherub pointed out, her ability to manage all aspects of preparation for her team.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  7. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Oh good, we're talking about next season.

    To me, Carmen is not the problem. Very rarely are their free dances a problem (okay, Funny Face may have been a problem, but whatevs). But I would love to see a truly kick ass OD/SD/OSP from them that doesn't take them the entire season to perfect. Had they had a better received OD this season (granted, their OD wasn't all that well received last season either but D&W had similar problems), their Carmen would've been better received too. This is probably where a coach with greater technical expertise is needed. I mean, is V&M the only top team that seems to have issues with the pairs spin? I mean, why?

    And maybe Skate Canada needs to put more input next season at those camps. USFSA seems to always demand changes from D&W, yet Skate Canada is always so laisez-faire about everything. I mean, perhaps Patrick should get an actual figure skating coach, right? And why is Kevin still with Joanne?
  8. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I always love their ODs but they do seem to have gone wrong in terms of the energy of their dance. It's a gorgeous waltz, the polka is integrated smoothly and was performed perfectly last night, but it lacked energy in the music compared to the other teams, therefore it did not appear as fast and exciting, but I think they are in fact quite fast over the ice. So if they stay next year, what then? Make their dance a majority quickstep? I would have loved to see a sublime foxtrot as only they can do.

    I feel like ever since Belbin & Agosto the OD turned into less of an opportunity to perform an authentic ballroom dance on ice and more like a singles or pairs short program, the focus of which is to perform clean elements with energy and good speed.
  9. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand this either. I feel she's just making it worse by basically saying Tessa just isn't psychologically prepared because of what happened at 4CC. And people already feel she was making excuses for them when she said it was the dress that caused the messed up twizzles.
  10. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Hope you've seen W/P's SD by now. :) Thanks w/the stress and situation at home. Sadly, nothing's going to change until my Mom wakes up to reality about both mine and my Dad's Medical situation. I have a better chance to make the team for Sochi than that happening, so... :(

    You were the only one making disgusting and insulting comments about Canadian fans and how we support our skaters. You got called on it. Don't then come back in here and play the victim "Oh...I'm being picked on now by everybody...." and give a half assed apology. You knew what you were saying last night and you said it more than once. You meant every word, so own up to it and don't whine when you're rightfully nailed for it.

    Looking forward to your impressions and ITA w/you about Marina. What the HELL!?! A coach just does *not* do or say some of the things she has said about Tessa and Scott over the last year especially. It's more than time for them to leave Canton and I also think they should go to Igor. I really do think he was the one who was the true coach in Canton and Marina rode his coat tails. You can give a skater great choreography, but if there isn't someone there actually *coaching* and making sure the tech stuff is up to snuff, then what's the point?

    Something's not right and I think it's the environment they're in. Time to go somewhere else.
  11. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Aragorn, Pani isn't playing the victim. If anything she's taking full responsibility with some of the things she said yesterday and was sticking up for V/M fans. And emotions were running high yesterday so some of us might have said things that we probably didn't mean to (I know I attacked someone and had to take it back later).
  12. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    No, no a coach shouldn't be saying the things she's saying. The LAST thing they need right now is it out there that Tessa is having confidence issues, as if the judges needed even more reasons to scrutinize them. I also agree that Igor was the true technical coach. I definitely feel they would be much better off with him. I would love to see what he and Swan could do with them next year.

    I have felt all this season that something wasn't right. I think you're correct that it's the environment and it's time to go somewhere else.
  13. PEZazzz

    PEZazzz New Member

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  14. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Wow, Marina does such great PR for them. I can see why they would never leave her ;)
  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Don't think this was posted... more comments from Marina about the dress:

    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130314&content_id=42772226&vkey=ice_news
    For Zoueva, who coaches both teams in Canton, the evening held mixed emotions.

    "You know, one team did a perfect program and the other team did little mistake on the twizzle," Zoueva said. "So, I was really high up and then kind of down."

    The fashion-conscious Virtue, known for wearing several different costumes over the course of a season, unveiled a new black dress on Thursday.

    Zoueva thinks it may have been costly.

    "All the time, they do [the twizzles] perfect," she said. "I think it was the new dress, seriously, because it is a really big skirt. I saw it in the practice and I told her, maybe that is part of the problem."


    -----

    She sounds so blase. Very weird to see Scott breaking down the technical elements and the coach talking about the dress. Why didn't she insist on a change if she really thought it was a technical problem? This is the woman who supposedly insisted Tessa wear white instead of pink for the Olympics, but she won't put her foot down when the dress inhibits the skating?
  16. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    It makes no sense.

    If they want a chance next year, they have got to get away from her.
  17. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I was not feeling Marina when she kind of shrugged her shoulders about all the Shibs deductions at Nats, but this takes the cake.
  18. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    me too:(
    Tracy said that Fabian is still feeling pain in his groin and that it affects him most during the lifts. That+stamina issues from not having had the chance to train has me a bit worried about the FD. I really hope they will be ok. I am really impressed that they are competing here.

    I agree, IoanaC. I think the tech panel did their job, like you and nlyoung said. And while I would have had V&M a bit higher in SS and LF/M, for instance, they did not lose those categories by much (the margin was less than 0.25, the minimum increment, so the judges were not unanimous here, or in any category of PCS, though the margins were larger in the remaining three categories). I think that, had they been cleaner, the PCS might have been higher. So while I do think some of what they do is undervalued in PCS, I still have hope that they can attain a stellar score in the FD. I hope their performance of Carmen is everything they want it to be:)

    I hope things get better, AragornElessar.
  19. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    LOL, sad but true.
  20. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    You are so lucky to see such a great pairs event! WOW to Tanya and Max, Kirsten and Dylan and Mega-Eric!

    AragornElessar., i said sorry today just to all V-M fans, who need to read how crazy they are, when only one crazy person in this thread - me. Nothing more.

    As for Marina.
    I think the main problem - she just didnt found good technick coach. And from the results i think Shpilband still the best.
    Marina is all about choreo, ideas, emotionls, style, to find new positions in lift from ballet, but she didnt understaend COP like Igor.She could work with skaters on good legs-arms lines, but not on blades , edges and levels. So maybe D-W more ready technically, when V-M need coach who will work with them on SS, twizzles ect.
    I think Scott is good in COP, he understand it, but they need outside look.
    Thats my thoughts. Maybe i am wrong.
    Today Savchenko-SZelkovi lost to V-T 6 points in PCS :eek: Hope this will not happened with Tessa and Scott and they will see, what they need to be on fire, because russians teams are very strong too.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  21. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I agree (and I think Scott would make a great coach someday). I really doubt Marina could create a team from scratch. Igor could, even if I wouldn't necessarily love their style. D&W already have their technical stuff down cold so she basically just had to create choreography this year. V&M are dealing with a chronic condition that involves changing their skating technique and training methods, and they have chosen to do new elements and need a coach to see that through. Basically, IMO Marina is in over her head.
  22. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a really lovely thing to hope.
  23. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  24. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    So why do you think so many teams chose to stay with her rather than go with Igor? If she is a weak coach, that makes no sense.
  25. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Who said she is weak? She isnt. She have power, childrens love her. And often ice dancers choose good choreo then technick.
    I think her young teams have problems now. Shibs for example.
  26. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    That's a good question. I was shocked everyone stayed - perhaps out of comfort? Maybe it's only becoming apparent now. Igor was left to scramble and find a new home while everyone was starting to work on their programs. Only the teams with the least to lose (C&B and Lithuanians) went with him.

    I will be absolutely flabbergasted if the Shibs at least do not leave.
  27. horselover

    horselover New Member

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    I usually lurk. But some of the sentiments in this thread have me puzzled. The rabid, anti-American prejudice....the total paranoia. I usually come to this thread because I have enjoyed watching V-M for years. I have enjoyed watching DW. I love both and would like fairness for both.

    I am confused about the sentiments on this thread because:

    A. Canada is doing very well in these championships and has much to be proud of and an amazing future. A bronze medal in pairs, a leading man and hopefully a leading lady. Even though I am not Canadian, I am excited about that. But when someone from my country (USA) does well, much hatred seems to spew out from some of these posters. Where is the maturity and goodwill?
    B. I have been to both threads (DW) and have not read any threads making fun of individual posters in this thread.
    C. I have followed this forum for a long time and I am very deeply disappointed in the maturity expressed here. I do hope this sort of thing does not spread.
    tinypawsxxoo likes this.
  28. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    horse lover...What hostility to US skaters? None of us hate D/W, but we hate the fact they seem to be able to do no wrong even when they have obvious bobbles when the speed overtakes them. They may be fast, but that speed also nails them too at times, but nowhere do they get nailed for it. They were good last night, but that score calls for a performance like Kaitlyn and Andrew put out there last night. Meryl and Charlie didn't deserve that high of marks. I do agree they should be in the lead, but that far ahead? No.

    And as for the Pairs event...Don't. Get. Me. Started!!! :mad:
  29. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Of course someone would reduce this to anti-Americanism. Come on now, I love many American figure skaters, but Davis and White aren't on that list. That doesn't mean I hate your country. On the contrary, I do like it very much, fine people all around.
  30. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    You obviously don't lurk enough or read nearly enough if you think this behaviour is only going on in this thread :rolleyes:

    A. Canada is having a great championship so far and you´ll read lots of happy posts about that. If you aren't seeing that then you must not have access to all threads. This isn't about not being happy someone from your country is doing well, you are in a fan thread where people who are fans of V&M are disappointed with their results. Many of those aren't Canadians so this isn't about Canada vs US, it's about fans of individuals being disappointed.

    B. Is this a case of semantics? Individuals vs collective group? Because it happens. Either you don't read enough or you don't have access to all areas.

    C. There are some immature posts here in this thread, there are some hysterical posts as well. But those posts are everywhere on this board mixed in with all the other kinds of posts. Again you either don't read enough or don't have access to all areas of this board.
  31. volunteer

    volunteer Member

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    horselover, sorry you think people in this thread are expressing "rabid anti-American prejudice . . . total paranoia" because we are disappointed that our favorites did not do well and disagree with the judging. Whenever fans don't agree with the judging of their favorites, people seem to personalize it as hating their competitors. I can't speak for everyone, but there is no hatred for DW here, they are athletes like everyone else, all they can control is their skating, not the judges.
  32. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    How do users distinguish a thread for talking about a particular skater from a skater "fan thread"? I mean, the Chan uber thread is specifically titled as such. This one isn't.
  33. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Must add - Elena V. talked with Marina, why Tessa is so fat now. Maybe this maen havy to her.
  34. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    True Susan, but I also believe all the threads for specific teams/skaters in The Trash Can Forum to be just that. Threads for the fans of those skaters to support them, chat about them and try to figure out what's going wrong when something is *very* wrong.

    Don't understand why uber has to be on any of the skaters/teams thread title in here, as to me, it just simply goes w/out saying.
  35. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it is a fan thread. It started out over 25,000 posts or so ago and has morphed into this current topic. The fact that it begins with Virtue and Moir should be a tip off to most regular posters around here. It's the same with the D/W topics -- it's a place for D/W fans/ubers to go and be safe and say all the things they want about V/M, PJ Kwong and Canada in general. And yes, I know this cause I read those topics as well.
  36. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

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    Facepalm. She asked her that? Seriously? Why this obsession with Tessa's weight, she's perfectly healthy.
  37. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    Can with stop bringing up the nationality thing. I'll like you to stop that too Pani when you sometimes say Canadians aren't being good to V/M. You don't have to love something/someone just cuz they're American, Canadian, or whatever. If that was the case I should be a D/W fan and not V/M since I'm American. I don't think it has to do with that.

    I can't believe this! Tessa Virtue is not fat! She's not even big nor normal nor average size. She's tiny!
  38. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. You' ve been around since 2004, maybe you can explain it to me.
  39. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Elena V. in good relationships with a lot off coaches. So she just had chat with Marina and could ask everything.
    One more journalist Arthur Werner, who is in good item with Igor, all time post messages on his conference about Tessas weight.
    I dont know why they try to do this.
  40. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Where is the anti-American sentiment? :confused:
    Some people here are fans of both V&M and D&W, and some are fans of just V&M. That doesn't mean that the latter group has anything against Americans (indeed, some of the people in this group are themselves American). I think the criticism here, for the most part, is directed at the skating and the scoring.

    I understand that you are upset about some of the remarks here, but those posters are responsible for their own words and actions. The majority of people here, imo, do not engage in or encourage that kind of behaviour. I, too, follow both threads and have noticed that the nastiness is not confined to this one. Fortunately, those posters seem to be in the minority in both groups.