Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Feb 11, 2013.
If judges will not give them gold you need to do like - boooooo
Volunteer, icefan1005 wellcome!
Now Pani, you know that we Canadians are NICE and wont do that.... though I am sure some of the spectators will!
Well not everyone that will be at World's is Canadian so there *could* be some booing -- one way or another.
USA moms were unhappy, when after D-W get there marks we were like - WHAAAAT?
I'll be boo (-hoo-ing) from my living room couch.
I was thinking about D&W's supposed "new found connection" and I actually think their (and especially Meryl's) in-your-face attempt to make them look like they actually have one makes them seem a bit hypocritical. Wasn't there some big article on D&W last season where they (and I think it was Meryl) was quoted as saying certain dance teams really play up a supposed relationship on the ice and in the media when there really isn't one and that they (D&W) are just who they are and don't pretend to be anything they're not (I'm paraphrasing but that was the jist of it). Whatever it was she said seemed like a dig towards V&M. And now with that laughable and embarrassing post-skate OTT scene at Skate America, the recent articles about their connection, etc. it all just seems so contrived and phony. Because they are certainly bending over backwards trying to out-connect V&M and shove it down our throats.
Re: that Meryl Davis London Free Press article, I wonder how much overtime D&W's agent had to put in to get that published.
Rafter - I hear you - angsty fluttering eyelids and open mouths do not equal "newfoundconnection" - exactly, last year they seemed to be implying that it was phony, and now this year, it's like the second coming.
In any case when a team has confidence and genuine connection, it does not require repeated reminding, it's purely evident and divine to watch.
I remember this interview. She talked about some teams play in relationships off-ice. And some people thought she talked about W-P.
A i remember, how during long years the same people talked about how they were bothering with V-M connection and love on ice and how now they talked with enthusiasm about new D-W connection
That's because it is contrived!
But it seems like some are falling for the propaganda - the question I have is what percentage of those individuals are not D/W fans?
French audiences are known for booing... Canadians are known for standing ovations... what about French-Canadians?
It's very smart tactical strategy. It's implying that they now have the one thing that V&M have had that they lacked. It plays into the notion that their technical abilities and programs are equal, and that it's just a matter of "what you like" and who skates clean. It's all a game of adding bells (literally) and whistles to their program and selling it as "improvements" without reconstructing the technique or adding difficulty. I almost want to say good for them for getting away with that.
But what can V&M do? They can't go around saying look at how much ice we cover with one push, look how much more difficult our lifts are.... they need people to do that for them. The only one who tried was PJ Kwong and she used the ridiculous cheese analogy.
Maybe they could hire competent people who would do that for them. You know, like the way D/W and practically every other major skater has done.
Exactly. It's amazing. I have to laugh when thinking about how long Skate Canada and B&K were insisting they were the best in the world, and now they actually have the reigning Olympic champions and don't know how to sell them at all!
The best V-M PR, like SaharaRain post on FF - intervews with Jeniffer Swan, Maria Mountain, ice-dance.com article. And PJ interview in summer from London.
Considering what russan specialists talked about V-M, i am not sure they need PR. There skating speek for themselfs, no?
Of course. I thought you of all people though would think Skate Canada should be doing more to promote them?
Yes, i think SC have best ever canadian ice dance team now and this to less recognized in Canada, then Shae-Lynn and Victor (i loved this two, but they wasnt V-M) and Elvis Stoiko. ut now they did more promrtion for W-P and G-P, then for V-M.
But look, like V-M didnt want all this promrtion. Maybe they want to protect Tessa. And maybe before (untill 2010) coaches did all this promotion work for them, but then thigs changed.
Chan too. In 2011 and 2012 they built up an aura of invincibility around Chan that he could do no wrong, that he had a significant advantage even with multiple falls because of his depth of edge, his flow, the transitions, the quality of everything he did... well, shouldn't those things be even more important in ice dancing?
Yes. But honestly i thin Chan is a talent that comes once in a 20 years. So i agree, his PCS must be higher, then others will have. Like V-M.
Maybe thats help - Patrick didnt have close competitior from USA? I felt all the time since 2009 SC did more promotion to D-W, then to V-M They could simply didnt talk about them, but they prised them higher, then so really strong dancers.....
if d/w do win i do hope they get booed i, for one am quite tired of this "polite canadian" stereotype
I could be all wrong but my way of seeing it is that they could build an aura of invincibility around Chan because he was winning all the time but now that a few other skaters caught up with him doing two quads or even three quads in the long program and that Chan has been losing more often than not because he can't afford to make mistakes anymore, I notice that the tone has changed quite a bit. Maybe they'd build an aura of invincibility around V/M too if they were winning all the time. I could be wrong again but I suspect it's not that easy to strongly politik for a team that kept answering the question "Are you going to continue next season?" or "Are you going to continue until Sochi?" by "We don't know yet, we'll have to sit and talk, we take one season at a time" and suchlike.
Definitely. It's a chicken and egg thing. The aura of invincibility came because he was winning a lot of stuff, but part of the reason he was winning all that stuff was because (rightly or wrongly) the belief was that he was that good that he had a cushion where he could fall and win. My thought is, V&M excel at everything at which Chan excels, and they're more musical, and their elements are at the maximum difficulty, and they don't make as many mistakes... so where is their huge point advantage? For that matter why did N&K have such a huge point advantage just because of superior bodyline, while lacking in many other qualities that V&M have?
That's a really great point. I'd never thought about it that way.
It's one thing for SC to promote their skaters - why VM have not gotten the kind of PR that BK or Chan got/gets, could be related to the uncertainty of their future, but why not capitalize on their past accomplishments and current status of Olympic gold medalists? It seems though, that the other team is not only being promoted by their association, but by other various sources, media and such with the same PR message and in addition, taking every opportunity to find fault, real or fabricated for anything VM does.
Is this the same book that came out not too long after the olympics?
No the other one is black and white. I didn't see this yet, I'm going to buy it.
Saw this on twitter, new interview http://m.680news.com/2013/03/05/key-to-hometown-worlds-for-virtue-and-moir-is-in-pretending-its-anything-but/.
I thought V/M were also represented with IMG? Who represents them?
Oops I was responding to the above post with the IMG links, but it got altered lol.
And to answer my own question they are represented by Danny Fritz IMG Canada. It's on their website.
A picture of their bubble:
as you can see, Choreographer and Trainer are in it as well!
This is kind of random, but I was looking at the University of Western Ontario (which I will be visiting this weekend, sadly one week away from Worlds. Visiting the university would've been a great excuse for my parents to take me to London for Worlds haha) website, and while looking in the health science area for a friend, I came across this: http://fowlerkennedy.com/patients/fowler-kennedy-videos/page/2/
It looks like a pretty old interview, but Tessa speaks about her experience at the clinic and her CECS.
It's going to be a very long week here at home next week. I think my moods will be swinging all over the place so I think I'll ask for patience and forgiveness now. I may find myself ducking in here for solace and hugs cause I'm going to try and read through the play by play threads and we know how nasty some people get there. For me, this topic is my bubble.
To all of you going, please give out a long and loud "wooo hooo" and plenty of standing "O"s for all those Canadian skaters competing. I'd also like to share some of this with
Dance: P/B and the Shibs
Men: Fernandez, Takahashi
I'm sure I"m missing some so I reserve the right to add more later
Shayii, thanks for the link. Its amazing, how Scott try alwayse to protect Tessa
Link from FF - Tessa and Scott with Acura
Tessas car look big
Lol Tessa got an SUV! Man, lucky kids getting new cars. But that's awesome. So how many cars do they have now? I remember someone saying they also got BMWs? That pic Marty posted took me a sec too long to get lol.
The eBook was kinda disappointing or maybe I didn't read the description well, but it was just a collage of all the articles the author has ever written of Tessa and Scott and some pictures didn't even show up, but whatevs it was only $3.
I have't posted a favorite list in awhile, but I was really bored tonight. Here are some of my favorite T/S montages Part 2 (or Part 3 don't remember where I left off):
The Worlds Meet: So pretty and the music is so soothing it almost lulled me to sleep.
Cheeky Mambo: No real reason, I just think it's so cute.
Breath of Life: Since it was made by my request and it's amazing.
No Light: No real reason for this either, just love the way it was edited.
Stripped/Skin: Tied for capturing the essence of Carmen, IMO.
Real Life Fairytale: One of the best solely picture montages I've seen.
Feels Like Home: I love the song.
I think this is old photos with cars.But i could be wrong.
And yes, after 2010 OG they get black BMWs cars
Thnks for montages list. Need to watch them all
Were they BMW or Audi cars? I don't remember.
Maybe ISU doesn’t want a dance-based direction because not all ice dancers can actually dance. After discovering Tessa and Scott at the Vancouver Olympics, my idealistic self was like, “This is cool, dancers on ice!” Three years later following this sport I had to adjust my expectations, that very few are actual dancers and skaters at the same time. That many, while tremendous athletes and skaters are not dancers or at the very least lack the grace and attributes you normally expect to see in intermediate dancers off ice much less from dancers who call themselves elite. Not exactly a lowering of standard (well, perhaps a bit) but more like adjustment to reality. A frustrating reality for the idealistic part of me, but what can you expect when judges don’t encourage these athletes to be the best that they can be, both as skaters and dancers? Just nail the difficult elements as fast as you can and boom, score of perfection. Never mind the bad posture, broken form, dangling legs, etc.
Someone mentioned this a few threads back, (not sure who, perhaps it was you also), that it is funny that during the N/K era, superior body line and dance grace takes precedence over technical skating skills, while in this cycle the reverse seems to be happening, that it is all about the elements and speed skating. (Does ice dance judging really fluctuates this much historically or is it really all about that dreaded politics again?) I think it is a testament to V/M skills as dancers and skaters that they could flourish and succeed in these two very different eras of judging philosophy, politics be dammed.
Anyway, back to Worlds, I honestly believe they can still win this despite the odds, which is a surprise to me because I tend to panic a lot. (I probably will next week. ). Maybe I am being naive and idealistic again, but I trust Tessa and Scott and their training and their strength as both dancers and skaters. I hope they can perform their programs to their full potential, not just for the win, but as an example for the next generation of ice dancers. Perhaps a time will come when a system will be in place that recognizes and rewards both dance skills and grace (like in the N/K era) and the technical prowess of the modern ice dancers (like in this quad). Or perhaps not. Either way, Tessa and Scott are showing that you do not have to choose between dance technique and skating technique in ice dancing. One quality does not have to be sacrificed for the other, that both can exist harmoniously to reach true perfection in ice dance. Or at least near perfection anyway. It is a challenge definitely, but I am really hoping someone will take up that challenge when Scott and Tessa are done competing. Ultimately, I believe that would be Tessa and Scott’s true legacy to ice dancing.
ETA: We better start thinking of thread titles. With the documentary coming up, we might need a new thread even before TS step on ice for the SD.
ETA: LOL! Just reading the article on W/P on dance international and I can't really enjoy it because it was written by Lois Elfman, again with an bunch of quotes from SYTYCD dancers. All this talk about propaganda is making me cynical and distrustful.
This. It is not like they have the potential to be golden. They ARE golden. SC needs to step up on this. Now.
I like So You Think You Can Dance (and the dancers mentioned were ones that I've enjoyed, fwiw). No need to diminish them.
I dissagree with this. Ice dance technical comitee changed rules after 2010 OG - uplifting rule, dance rythm rules ect. So for me its look like they wish to back ice dance in Pahomova-Gorshkov era.
My 1 problem with this article is - she copy ice-dance article about modern in ice dance. Plus - i didnt see dance in W-P FD. And i am happy they re-work it and hope it will look much better and will have more dance moves, not just elements.
I am a BIG SYTYCD fan myself and not diminishing the show at all. More than anything else this show has brought different kind of dances to the masses, for people like me who don't have access to them otherwise. Just marveling at the accessibility of the writer to a lot of dancers from that show. Yes. I am also familiar with the choreographer and dancers mentioned, but dancers from seasons 3 and 4 are my all time faves (US show).
Dance looks like many different things. Just because other skaters do not look like V/M does not mean they do not look like dancers on ice. I see many beautiful dancers on the ice at most competitions.
Its was discussion about V-M put a lot off dance moves from usuall dance on ice. And they working a lot on translate dance on ice, like they are without skaters. When a lot of ice dancers gust skate.
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