Virtue and Moir 25: Road to home

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. Fort

    Fort New Member

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    geoskate and (deleted member) like this.
  2. whoa

    whoa Member

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    Marina is adorable. I think it would be more fun to watch them train than to watch their best performances.
     
  3. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I may get some flack for this but I think Scott looks sexy with his hair that short.
     
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    Like Shayii, I stand by my previous comment. IMO, PJ's comment was rude and unnecessary. It is fine if she does not like D&W's FD, but she could have used an analogy that was not so belittling. I do, however, agree with you with respect to IN. They are so dismissive, insensitive ("French Toast") and uninformative that I don't bother to read their material. and someone at IDC clearly has something against Tessa and Scott, but they do have some good stuff on there, too, so I just try to look for that stuff.

    I posted about the difficulty of V&M's and P&B's choreography, along with other aspects of their skating, not being sufficiently rewarded a couple of pages back. As you know, I absolutely adore D&W. I love how they bring freestyle skills into ice dance, I love their speed, I love their quick feet, and I love the raw quality to their skating (including the "bursts of emotion" martyross discussed). However, I do think they have been generously marked in PCS, especially in the category of transitions/linking footwork. While I love their programs this year, I do not think they have the most difficult or intricate programs, and thus, I was perplexed at the scoring of the SD at 4CC. aka_gerbil, Cherub721, and Carmen Ovsiannikov (love this name so much!) have pretty much said it all for me. They have listed the things they do not feel are being rewarded enough in ice dance these days, and I completely agree with them. These things (posture, line, unison, distance between partners, along with number if transitions and difficulty and variety of these transitions) are explicitly listed in the CoP so I do not agree with the way in which the rules are being applied. I'll also add that skating skills really are the foundation of PCS, imo. Great skating skills (not just speed but ease of acceleration, varied speed and power, clean turns, deep edges, multidirectional skating, etc.) that are exhibited through a variety of difficult transitions throughout the program (note the interdependence between these two aspects of PCS) allow a team to express the music in the most interesting ways, imo. And a strong piece of choreography skated close together with good unison, matching leg lines, well-placed free legs, energy, and great attention to the rhythm and mood of the music is what should get the Performance/Execution mark. I do feel that speed, though important, is often overvalued. Complex choreography does not provide a team the opportunity to build speed to take into the elements, and it can also impede their ability to get their legs completely balanced on top of the edge to get the clean, clear edges required for a level 4 footwork, for example (legs get tired and don't have the time to recover). And as I said earlier, expanding the surface area of the body by extending the free legs can slow a team due to increased resistance. Transitions thus make a program that much riskier, yet they do so much to enrich the skating. I hope that made sense.

    one request--can you please avoid comments like the one you made about Charlie's mom out of the discussion? I am always open to hearing your opinions on the skating as you are clearly well-informed and passionate about the subject but I find the personal stuff hurtful to the skaters and their families.

    I do think that there is a double standard with some people--they will call out others for putting down their favourites while trashing their favourites' rivals (+rivals' fans). It is incredibly frustrating, especially when some people completely twist what we say in here and report it to others, treat us as some homogeneous entity, and post about how clueless, delusional and just plain awful we (as V&M fans) are, but I try to remember that those people, and those people alone, are responsible for their actions. I find it hard to ignore the negativity, especially since I consider us to be a little community and people have clearly put a lot of thought into their posts here, but I am trying, like many of you, to focus on the wonderful skating and wonderful people on this board:)

    ok, I promise I will learn to be more concise. I am working on it, I really am.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  5. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    of course you do;)

    btw, a very warm welcome to vmfan82 and kittysk8ts! I hope you have a wonderful time here:)

    and thank you ofdarkness and Fort for transcribing the doc for our friends who do not have access to the video. and to Shayii for and Fort again for posting the youtube links.
     
  6. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be different. It is fun to watch and I think it's funny how she kinda pits them against each other to make them motivated. It would be a very interesting reality show, that's for sure.
    I honestly think he looks great either way (maybe a small preference to it being on the longer side), but I know some absolutely hate it though lol.

    BTW while watching these clips I got to thinking Igor was still their coach when this was filmed. So was he not part of the doc or was he edited out?

    BKF I think we were posting at the same time. Thank you and you're welcome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  7. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    We've talked about this before. There are parts of icedance which are and always will be subjective but things like posture, body line, toe point and connection are not.

    I don't know where icenetwork found this Henry Byalikov but this guy can't be much of a dance expert if he thinks that V&M have no connection among other things. Whether it's dance on the ballroom floor or on the ice, there is no mistaking what it means to be a couple with that connection. It makes me wonder if he ever really watched any of V&M's programs or was he just shown a picture of Scott and Tessa when they happened to not be looking at one another.

    It seems like USFS/icenetwork is hitting below the belt trying to unsettle V&M and to set up a wuzrobbed scenario in the case V&M and win another World title in London next month.

    That has to be it. The sad part is that some will take that article at face value even though they can see differently with their own eyes.

    V&M have been constantly criticized because supposedly all they do is lovey, dovey programs full of romance. Oh but wait, now they have no connection at all. Um, which is it? That is a contradiction.

    Going into this quad, I never thought that V&M would be one of those teams who people could find so much fault with. Sometimes they are treated as if they barely made it out of the junior division.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  8. marikat

    marikat Active Member

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    List of partners has been updated on V/M's website. Audi is not on the list anymore but now they have Acura as a partner. http://virtuemoir.com
     
  9. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! :) Maybe Audi was the sponsor for 2010 OG team and Acura for 2014 OG? Dont understand nothing in cars, but hope this is good sponsors for T-S :)

    Thanks for posting videos! You know, after this video i miss Funny Face :D
    And i am wonder, how they understand Marina and how she understand them :lol:

    I was wonder too. First i thought he wasnt part of this film from the begining. But now - maybe he was edited out?
    But Lorie Nicol and Krall is a part of this movie, but they are not Patrcik coaches anymore. So maybe Igor wasnt a part from the begining.
     
  10. vmfan82

    vmfan82 New Member

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    Hi guys!! Thank you all for your warm welcome :) OMG, this thread is more interesting than ever... I have no idea on how to comment... but here we go...

    I would like to talk a little bit about Tessa, on and off the ice. It is something specifically talked about couple of pages ago and I hope it is not too late to bring it up:

    I can only imagine how much courage and strength it takes to portray a character such as Tessa's in Carmen. Being so intense, sexy and seductive in front of a live audience must a difficult thing to do. Even if it comes easy to her, for some reason, it does take some courage. The assumption that sometimes we read or hear that Tessa may be as slutty as her character in the FS is very questionable. If she is, where is the proof? Using her performance as one is a little ridiculous. She is only portraying a character. She is not only dancing but also acting, as well as Scott. We do not know how easy those characters come to them, because we do not know them. Now, we have watch tons of interviews with TS. We are familiar with their demeanor with people around them and each other, and in now way it suggests that Tessa has anything to do with Carmen from the FD. Or does she? The only conclusion I can draw is that they are great artists showing how they have decided to take full responsibility in portraying to the fullest such tricky characters. Now, something that DO stands out from Tessa's interviews, however, is the way she looks at people. In the medal ceremonies, she looks very attentively and straight in the eyes at the at each of the committee providing them with either medals or flowers. At the interviews, when she is not looking at Scott of course, she looks straights in the interviewer's eyes, when listening to the question AND when replying. Or in the fan videos, when she is having a casual conversation with someone at the stands, even if the other person looks somewhere else when replying, she still keeps on looking at the person straight in the eyes. When watching others female skaters being interviewed or interacting with others it is usually different: they look up, down or to the sides as they talk or respond to a question. This is a normal form of interaction, and I think we all do it to a certain degree. I am not saying in any way Tessa is superior to those other female athletes. My point is, that Tessa seem to have that characteristic, that intensity and sharpness in the way she looks at people, how she interacts visually with those around her and when she engages in conversation in a formal or casual manner. This has NOTHING to do with her being suggestive or slutty in any way. However, she does seem to be a very intense/"focused" person. Has anyone else noticed that? What do you think about it? That, and in the way she handles pain, does says a lot about her inner strength. I feel a lot of admiration for Tessa and feel very drawn to her persona, even if I have not idea what kind of person she really is. I can only say she is a very special!

    (I apologize if my ideas are a little difficult to understand. English is my second language, but I hope I did take my point across...)
     
  11. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    PJ kwong started insult first. She start to throw foods under the belts. She do this like charity for skate canadia. icenetworks pay dancer to do this job because Lois Elfmen not doing this job for free :rofl:
     
  12. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    :D So like in kindergarden we will play, who was the first. Icenetwork become rude to V-M from the last season TEB
     
  13. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    Pj Kwong have more food ready to throw for next rounds :D this is fun competition on side for all new and old fans. maybe cinquanta will ask ioc to add to olympics for 2018 :lol:
     
  14. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how to take this post. Are you being serious, or just trying to poke fun? If the former, then I'm :rolleyes: and if the latter then I'm sorry for not getting the humour.
     
  15. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    I love you guys and I love that I can come here when the PBP threads' negativity becomes too much to handle. It is wonderful to come here to cleanse after watching Youtubes of VM and seeing some of the nasty comments there by accident. But holy cow - the cheese thing is way out of hand! :lol:

    I don't think PJ is insinuating either program is cheesy.

    I don't think there are any other layers - RE smelly etc..

    After following her for a very long time I don't for a moment think she meant to be rude or dismissive about DW.

    At the same time - I don't think she is afraid to express her opinion honestly and I personally see nothing wrong with what she said.

    She is entitled to think that DW - though still entertaining and skilled and lovely - have a program which is simpler and less refined than V and M. IMO this is all that she was suggesting when using the cheese comparison.

    I do see how some people could interpret it as much more of an insult if they loathe processed cheese. But I honestly think she was being sincere when she said that SHE found them both to be yummy. I find no reason to believe she is lying about that.

    Anyhow -on another note I am counting the days until Worlds so it is SUCH relief to read that Tessa is okay and still working towards those championships. If the results don't go the way we would like - it will be easy to keep in mind my gratitude for being able to see the programs live - when it is such a real fear that Tessa might not be able to skate at all.
     
  16. ofdarkness

    ofdarkness New Member

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    It probably gets easier when you know the person, and when you're all knowledgeable in your field. For example, I'm in an orchestra, and our conductor speaks to us often with incomplete sentences, sounds and gestures. She always jokes that an outsider would think we're crazy that we learn this way. I would assume it's the same for VM and Marina. They all speak the same language of ice dance.
     
  17. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    He was on so you think you can dance, right? Maybe he thinks he can dance more than he actually can. ;)
     
  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Was he a judge? Or a winner?
    Now i dont care - everyone cold have the own opinion, but just interesting to know, who he is. Did he working in theatre, ballet school, dance show?
    I know, we love people, who have the same opinion with us and i belive many people agreed with him and feel happy with what he said, but its interesting to know what a professional level on any expert.
    And i know, professionals dancers dislike what skates doing on ice. Like we found at ice-dance.com article - they have there own opinion about body moves, knees work ect.
     
  19. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    http://www.henrybyalikov.com/about_Henry_Byalikov.html
     
  20. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  21. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan New Member

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    interesting post, vmfan82! I am continually amazed by those of you who are bilinguists/polylinguists. Your post made perfect sense to me. I noticed the same thing with the way in which Tessa interacts with interviewers, fans, flower girls, officials, etc. She smiles so warmly at them and looks them in the eye. She goes out of her way to do this with the flower girls, which I find so sweet.
    And ITA about her courage and determination. I also agree with those who have commented on how supportive and wonderful Scott is as a partner.

    As for the whole 'slutty' thing--I wish we could abolish this word. Why are the sexual habits of others so important to some people?

    and thanks for the link and the comic relief, iNap:)
     
  22. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    :eek: Tell me, both teams fans, did V-M didnt have connection and bad legs lines at Nationals?
    As for choreo - maybe this all because they re-moved so many things from this FD because of D-W. Why they pay so much attention to D-W? They are not childrena anymore and need to focus on there job, not on what D-W are doing.
     
  23. iNap

    iNap Active Member

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    O really, I did not know D-W was coaching this teams? :D
     
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    OK, because they want to be first more, then to show what they could to do with this FD.
     
  25. CatherineC

    CatherineC Member

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  26. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Hope its real Oksana Grishuck, because she said she love "Carmen" :lol:
     
  27. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Really, someone watched the performance of V/M's FD at Canadian Nationals and thought that they lacked connection and had bad leg lines?

    The politiking intent of this piece is just blatantly obvious. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but think about it. When discussing V/M, the first thing that comes to most peoples' minds is their connection. Their connection is considred to be on par with the likes of T/D, K/P, and U/Z, i.e. one of the best connections we've ever seen in this discipline. One of the next things that people typically praise after V/M's connection is their lines. Almost always when someone goes to praise V/M, their connection and lines are two of the things that are cited off the top (among the many, many things they excel in).

    Conversely, connection and lines are two things that D/W have been oft-criticized for. There's been a huge push this season to insist that D/W now have a connection like that of V/M's... which most of us can see that they don't. That ridiculous display at Skate America, anyone? So, now, we have an article that comes out on Icenetwork, ostensabily a mouth piece of the USFS which owns Icenetwork, in which two things V/M are regarded as exceling in and being all-time greats in, that are also known D/W weaknesses,are specfically listed as things they [V/M] need to work on? I don't know about the rest of you, but I smell a rat.
     
  28. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    lol, well, she fooled the real Elena Ilinkyh and Anastasia Martusheva... pretty sure those are their actual accounts (they've been linked on FSU before).

    on the positive side, some of those pics are beautiful. http://web.stagram.com/p/392635482129456180_308135662 What is this from?

    o/t but Oksana Grishuk is so gorgeous!!!
     
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    It was photo-shoot i think in 2010 or 2011.
    Yes, hope its real Oksana like Carmen
     
  30. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    That's not Tessa! That actually pisses me off cuz everybody now thinks that's her even other skaters. Also on FB there's a fake Tessa that has almost 9,000 followers.

    Which one is Oksana G and what does she say about Carmen?