Virtue and Moir #22 - To Russia with love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    I disagree. If you think about winning, then yes, it doesn't matter. I am not thinking about the title, I am thinking this is a program with an unlimited artistic value. The fact that so many people in the figure skating world appreciate it makes me feel proud for them. Yeah, come Worlds this might not matter, but I can appreciate it all the same.
  2. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    i am talking about the marks and what people thinks determines those marks. i am proud of the program but i can't wait for it to gell. it's a brilliant program, but it deserves that moment when it all comes together. i love those moments when you're caught up in it and only after do you remember it's a competition and they aced it. that to me is the perfect blend.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  3. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    Oh, yeah, well, people will always try to find a way to justify why the marks were fair or not. I do think that minus one for the step sequence was harsh, but, again, that's just me. Maybe that judge noticed something.
  4. ddtpdx

    ddtpdx New Member

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    Yep. It's a lift worthy of level 5!
  5. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the judges reaction of whether they like it or not does still matter. It will factor in the way they come up with the PCS score. If you like at the criteria, whether you feel they met it, and how well they did so, is subjective.

    The program is of course dependent on great technique, but a truly great program is not a technical exercise at its heart. It should have a soul at its heart. Some teams forget this because they're so focused on getting all the points in CoP that they can. I believe that's really why many people in the figure skating world like Carmen so much. It's one of the first times under CoP where a program isn't a technical exercise at its heart.
  6. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I think I prefer SC version even with the mistakes. Here they did seen slower at times and tentative. Given how their practice went it is still a job well done. As for that level 2 and negative GOE, we need BKFan to the rescue!
  7. iggie

    iggie New Member

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    .
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  8. Golightly

    Golightly New Member

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    I do not know what language this is, it's similar to Italian. They liked it very much too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lJ36YcJ-VGM

    Edited to add: Sorry, that's not the video I meant. I cannot find it right now. This one I think is... Russian? When I find the one that sounded similar to Italian I will post it too. I remember it was the whole dance event.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  9. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Excellent points, and I absolutely agree with everything you said.

    To some extent, even though it's not really supposed to be, PCS does get used like the old artistic mark in 6.0, so yes, how the judges feel about the program is going to definitely influence what they think about the choreography, interpretation/timing, and performance. And why they are skating under IJS and they have to check off all the elements like everyone else, I absolutely think this program really does have soul at its heart. Inspite of all of the elements that are required, this program is still about the soul. That's what makes it so great. It really, truly is one of the first, if not the first time, under CoP that a program is not all about the elements, but about the story they tell on ice.

    ETA: And just to repeat myself, they will get there with the technical side. It's not fair to expect them to be skating this program as well right now as they did Funny Face at Worlds. The only time we haven't seen them get there all the way on the technical side are the two seasons that Tessa had to have surgery on her legs. Even at that, they very nearly pulled off the win in 2011.
  10. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone post the Eurosport version? I tried to find it but can't locate it anywhere. Thanks.
  11. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Yes this!! :biggrinbo
  12. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

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    I really liked their short dance as well as the Shibs! (Can't find Shibs thread-who is the man in the KnC with Shibs?).
    Tessa's SD dress was pretty, however, why are some of the women wearing such short skirts in the Short Dance this season?
    I liked both FDs also. I really don't need the face to __ lift or thigh grabbing (stroking?) in a comp program for V/M. Didn't mind hearing Carmen at all. From the part of their long I saw, the Shibs recovered well. (Love that team too!!)
  13. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    The man with the Shib's was Maurizio Margaglio
  14. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    It's funny, if this was last season I'd probably be more concerned (upset) about V&M but at the moment despite the score, I feel as if Tessa and Scott are pacing themselves although I'm not sure why the nerves are getting to them (I read the practice reports). Given the level of difficulty in Carmen I won't start to get concerned until after the GPF if they are still in the same place as they were at Skate Canada and this weekend. And I really don't think they will be. It is hard to make any really concrete changes with only one week between competitions. I'll join in the discussion regarding the technical levels and how well Tessa and Scott are able to execute their programs once the GPF is over.

    For the time being I'm just really loving watching their programs and the fact that TAT gave them a standing ovation. Coming from her, that is really making a statement.

    Speaking strictly from an artistic point of view, I think I fell in love with the SD and Carmen all over again. Watching V&M skate brings me back to what made me love the sport of icedancing in the first place. I love and agree with sap5's post about a program being more than just a technical exercise; having a soul. These are the kinds of programs that I've missed since the last Olympic games. So many of the dances post Vancouver (both SD's and FD's) have been merely technical exercises. Those programs served a purpose but once each competition and the season in general was over I really didn't go back and watch those programs over again. Even once all the dust settles after Worlds, V&M's SD and Carmen in particular will be classics. Already, I've lost count of how many times I've watched both programs.
  15. smileyskate

    smileyskate New Member

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    Thanks Twilight.
  16. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    ITA with you Carmen! I was most into ice dance between 1992- 2002. A few programs have stood out since then but not in the same way as it used to be. V&M's Carmen is so fun to watch because it has that missing emoting that I used to love from U&Z, K&P, K&O, A&P, D&V etc.
  17. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I love COP dance, and find that Carmen is an exemplar of the form.
  18. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    For me, I have admired the technical demands of CoP dance, but I have longed, and longed, and longed for the artistry of the 6.0 days. Carmen is a marriage of the two, really. I said this after the debut at SC, but this program is a masterpiece and a winner no matter what scoring system you're using to evaluate it by. IJS, 6.0... it doesn't matter. It's incredible either way.
  19. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    I only don't like one part of the dance, the part she tripped on at SC & Tessa came close to the same mistake here too, when she flips her legs over cause the back part of her blade clips the ice & trips her up a bit, not sure why they kept it but hopefully the change that small part for the GPF.
  20. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Was this the link here, it's the whole Final Flight in the FD...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSuTo9W1ItI&feature=plcp
  21. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    While there is no denying that the best 6.0 dances are artistic, I tend to think that the artistry of the 6.0 days was overrated. Pick two seasons: one COP and one 6.0, and I believe I'll find as many artistic dances in each.
  22. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Ooh you're part of the press? That's so cool! Do you ever get to ask questions?
  23. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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  24. Bue

    Bue New Member

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    Sorry guys no idea how to make a video but I just watched the British Eurosport coverage on Sky+ and here's what the guys said (edited a bit). It's your typical Simon and Nicky stuff!

    They didn't talk during the performance. Afterwards:

    Simon: Well if there was a flaw there I didn't spot it. It look to the untrained eye faultless. [takes one to know one, Simon :p]
    Nicky: I loved this at SC... Tatiana Tarasova standing... that was ballet on ice and drama, such drama, technical difficulty. But gosh, she's sinewy, she's sexy, she's provocative, she is Carmen out there. It's amazing to me. Fantastic.
    Simon: And she's Katy Perry. [Way to lower the tone, Simon!] She's got it all. But they do seem to be getting better and better.
    Nicky: [Something about how he hadn't spotted she looked like KP, because to him she had become Carmen.] And it gets to me sometimes that it's ballet on ice but it's all about this thing I bat on about, it's the relationship between the couple, it's the story, never losing that focus. And here in Russia, this is where they so appreciate that.
    [Then they talk about Bestiamanova and Bukin doing Carmen 20 some years ago and now Tessa and Scott building on that.]
    Nicky: And I'm just so encouraged people can get to the level where they can take that framework and make it art.
    Simon: [Talks about how they were underwhelmed with their marks at SC.] They're perfectionists of course, that's what makes them the best in the world.
    Nicky: In a way I don't care what the judges give it because I thought it was fantastic. Are we on air at the moment, should I not have said that?!
    Simon: [Chit chat about marks] Undefeated. Unbeatable? We shall see.

    Hopefully someone will post the video soon!
  25. Bue

    Bue New Member

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    This. I am not convinced it looked like it was supposed to here either? It's far too messy.
  26. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    Yes, I had a press accreditation. I could have asked questions but, to be honest, I just wanted to enjoy their presence there, and the fact that they looked optimistic and confident about the program. They know it will take a lot of work, but it's obvious that they love it and love skating it.

    Bue, you're right, that move isn't supposed to look like that. They did it well in practice, but it's quite tricky. I love it, I feel it somehow mirrors Scott's kick in the beginning, but if they still can't make it work in every performance, they might have to change it.

    The gala was quite good. They began with all four medal ceremonies - I have no idea why they organized it like that, instead of the traditional way, after every event. It felt a bit anti-climactic. It's a pity that there weren't so many people in the audience as I had expected. However, it's interesting (in a good way!) that the Russian people prefer the competition to the gala. Usually it's the other way around. The arena here is Olympic-size and yesterday it was almost full. It gave me hope that the future of figure skating doesn't depend entirely on the Asian audience.
    Tessa and Scott skated to Hallelujah (wonderful as usual) and, since all the gold medallists had to perform an encore, they did the diag step sequence and the finale from the FD. The funniest thing was to watch Tessa, in her delicate Mahler-like white dress, suddenly switch to fierce Carmen mode and breath fire in the end!:lol: The audience clapped all along and by the time they got to the rotational lift, people were basically howling. When they'll skate it in London, I fear we might not even hear the music anymore...:)
    By the way, the step sequence looked great, wider and with more attack than yesterday. Which means they just have to manage those nerves better, and they'll be fine.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  27. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of Farrucas - from the last step sequence to the end, you couldn't hear the music because the audience was cheering so loud (I wasn't there, but I have one video of it that hasn't been edited for sound)
  28. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    I don't really care that the Brit commentators are not as knowledgeable as some of us would like. I love that they love T/S and appreciate so much of the artistry and difficulty of their work. Wasn't Nicky an ice dancer at the same time as T/D?
  29. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Find me consecutive seasons as good as the age where U/Z, K/P, and the Duschenney's were all competing. :p
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  30. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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    Thanks for this, I just wish someone had the British Eurosport coverage up on YT, it's always up not long after but still nothing...
  31. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    I think nostalgia is kicking in here. I do not believe that all 3 teams were amazing every year when they were the top teams. Each team seemed to have their stand outs much like the skaters today. I thought 2005-2007 were a couple great years for programs in ice dance. I also think code of points has been used an excuse long enough to not put any creative thought into the programs. There are plenty of examples in this era of beautiful skating within the CoP system. IE; D&W's Indian OD, D&S Frida, D&L's Somewhere in time, At Last, V&M's Pink Floyd, their 2011 FD and now Carmen.

    Even in 1997, G&P, K&O, A&P and B&K had great programs from 1996-1998. ( well B&K's OD's sucked)
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  32. marikat

    marikat Active Member

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  33. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    That sounds awesome! With that dress I wonder why they didn't just do a bit from the SD, lol.

    Thanks for that since it's the only report on the gala I've seen... would love to hear your impressions of the others also. :)
  34. Judy

    Judy New Member

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    I was away for the weekend so just catching up .. saw someone post that Igor had made a comment about the judging and Carmen? What was that about?
  35. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where a link is now but I think it's referring to answers Igor gave in an interview after Skate Canada where he timed their SD lift off a youtube video and thought they should have had a time deduction. The when asked the inevitable question about the two Carmen FDs said he spoke to judges and they preferred C&Ls version. No mention of how many judges he polled ;)
  36. Twilight1

    Twilight1 Well-Known Member

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    Just rehashing what Igor had said last week after Skate Canada
  37. Judy

    Judy New Member

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    okay I missed that? I don't remember reading anything negative.
  38. marikat

    marikat Active Member

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  39. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I think the trouble I have with the SD is the waltz is inward-focused, while the polka is outward-focused. Either they should dance the polka with that inward-focus as well, or develop the storyline so that we know that the polka is done at a public dance while the rest of the FD tells their private story. I get a Downton Abbey sort of feel from it, so it could be believable that the polka is the dance they do together when they first meet in public after the initial attraction, but the way the choreo is before the polka, it's not very clear.
  40. Lissa

    Lissa New Member

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