Virtue and Moir #22 - To Russia with love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Are you OK with geography and who she is? :lol:
  2. skatingfan12

    skatingfan12 New Member

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    I think I may have been presumptuous to say 90% of casual skating watchers would enjoy D/W more, but I think it is more than a 50/50 split.

    Will the rousing/entertainment-style of skating automatically win them an Olympic gold medal? No, definitely not. It’s likely going to come down to who performs best and gets their levels the day of the competition.

    However, I think those casual watchers tend to appreciate D/W skate to music that’s recognizable to the masses. Back to my analogy of Dancing With the Stars, contestants dance to song that are pretty identifiable, popular songs whether they’re dancing to the rhumba, waltz, etc. They enjoy programs where they know the music (i.e. Eleanor Rigby, Phantom, “On the Floor” in their Latin SD) or something they can clap along to (Die Fledermaus, Giselle). Dick Button once made a comment about their skating that was something like, “I was sitting at the edge of my seat the whole time!” and I think it’s just the feeling non-skating fans would have about D/W. I think this just works better to people who don’t have clue about skating. A few of D/W’s programs have become show/exhibition programs and it’s easy to see why, since these program are entertaining and they work so well when being performed to a crowd.

    This is in contrast to a program like Mahler where it seems like your seeing a special moment between two people and it’s not overtly extroverted. Many people have said Tessa and Scott show the relationship between a man and woman and that’s something I agree with, but sometimes these intimate moments don’t suck you in right now and it takes a couple of times to truly appreciate, which most casual watchers don’t see.

    In regards, lots of people talking about, away from this thread, that “Carmen” is an extremely divisive program – you either absolutely love it and absolutely hate it, and not much in between.
  3. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    I think it all boils down to personal preference. Those with no figure skating/ice dancing knowledge are going to choose whichever program speaks to them personally. They aren't going to be able to fathom how difficult element A or B is. Whether it's the music, choreo, performance or costuming - it's hard to tell who's going to like what.
    I think sometimes we get too caught up into what OTHER people like or don't like and get personally offended (I suffer from this from time to time as well), when all that matters is what YOU like. It would be another story if crowds had a say in who the winner or had any weight with the judging panel, but luckily for us it doesn't.
    With that being said: GO CARMEN :)
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Go, Canada, go :D
    I think they will change costumes for SD. At least Tessa. What do you think? Or its not enough time untill GPF?
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Scott might change considering that his friends made fun of him during SC. :p
  6. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    At the rate we are going we will have to pick a new thread title before the GPF so all of you put your thinking caps on.

    My choice is:

    GO CARMEN GO!
  7. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Amazing considering V&M "only have 2 or 3 fans" isn't it? :D
  8. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    "Dance Me to the End of Love" - both a reference to Carmen and Leonard Cohen. A little downbeat, but given the FD's ending.....
  9. naan

    naan New Member

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    I am one of casual skating watchers who don't know anything about ice dance since I usually watch singles, but I prefer V/M over D/W. Not only me, but most of my friends and family prefer V/M. I think Tessa and Scott are very popular in Asia, especially in Korea and China. (Japanese people love them, but they may prefer D/W since they had many chances to skate in Japan )


    This. I think this is why Tessa and Scott are beloved by Asian fans ;)
  10. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Active Member

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    Yes love this
  11. Sahararainfall

    Sahararainfall New Member

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    If in terms of quality of movement, the analogy fits, (and I totally agree) but it could also be (mis)interpreted as only people who can afford luxury goods can appreciate T/S, like they are a team that cannot reach the masses and I don't think that is true at all so I'm a little uncomfortable with that.

    T/S have proven they can do that rousing/entertaining style in the form of the Latin FD. First and only complete performance and it brought the house down. It was also well received in its show/ex version. They just chose not to do that style every freaking year because they can do something else. On the other hand...well, never mind.

    And here I am hoping for another cheesy commercial. :lol:
  12. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov New Member

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    Thanks martyross. :eek:

    I do think that V&M's dance spin in Carmen is gorgeous. It's clear that they have recognized the need to improve that element and it also stays with the theme of the program. I love how Scott holds Tessa's foot through the changes of position and in the exit. Yet another way to make a required element interesting; more than just something that is there because it needs to be.

    What gerbil said.

    I think Tessa and Scott recognized that they needed to have all their bases covered. Granted, they have always come across as the type of team who would work to improve themselves anyway but V&M probably also recognized that they can't leave anything to chance.
  13. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Am I the only one that actually like some of their previous dance spins?

    Pink Floyd: Great positions, interesting fluidity and transitions, superb match. Not the fastest, admittedly, but they stay reasonably well centered too.
    Mahler: Entry right after the lift is so smooth you could wipe a baby's tears with it. Positions elegant. Nuance and emotion perfect (look how Scott withdraws his hand to his body).

    I love the Carmen spin for reasons people have articulated, but don't think that it was an element they had to work on. D/W have nutsy speed and difficult positions, though.
  14. zilam98

    zilam98 New Member

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    continuing the theme of audience appeal vs. judges' approval, why doesnt ISU sell figureskating further by making it a reality show? they might get the arena audience to vote a la America's Funniest Home Videos system or bring a host to coordinate tv viewers' timing of phone-in/online/text votes--then add the judges' scores to the audience scores to determine the winner a la The Voice? :EVILLE:

    who knows they might get the tv viewership they've wanted for so long?
  15. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I can understand why you wouldn't finish that line cause if you did, even though we are in a V/M topic, you'd get hammered for saying something negative about certain team(s). It has seemed to me also that some teams stick to what is tried and true and works for them. They seldom seem to go out of their comfort zone, everything seems to be about being fast when I'm looking for finish. Oh well, that's OK. I prefer Tessa & Scott. I just adore BOTH of their programs this season, even with the glitches.
  16. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    Zilam :lol: Yup, let's push to mass market the sport and aim for a more broad common denomination (I was going to write "lowest"...but there are some very sharp individuals I know who LOVE a good "My Gypsy Wedding" or "insert reality television show name" Hi guys!)

    I knew nothing about ice dance in 2007 when I first saw VM skate (I avoided the discipline, just wasn't compelled by it), and loved them immediately.

    I also looove their Carmen spin. These days I actually youtube-skip the spins in almost all the disciplines, bypassing 30 seconds of the program I'm just not interested in seeing. Not this spin.
  17. iNap

    iNap New Member

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    These causal watcher not know what they are missing V-M programs so greate :lol: Funny face suck more at end of season for elite fans ;)
  18. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but I'm still giggling from your post. When I finished reading this response all I could think of was "it's got a good beat and I can dance to it" from a show I grew up watching/listening/and trying to learn to dance -- American Bandstand with Dick Clark. I realize that's not a reason for liking a particular dance but sometimes it has made it more enjoyable to watch multiple times V&M's Mahler over something like B&K's March With Me (and I was a rather big fan of B&K -- still loving my Shae-Bo!).

    However, that being said, just because I may enjoy a piece of music doesn't mean I enjoy the skating to it. I loved the music from the movie Ghost but cringed when watching I/K skate to some of the same music. For me, it seems there needs to be a harmony between the music and what I see on the ice -- a good marriage, if you will.

    Skating has been a good sport to me -- I've learned to appreciate some good/interesting music that I would never have heard before. I've also learned to appreciate difference in interpretion to music and what each team can bring to the ice -- well most of the time.
  19. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Though I'm not sold on spins as an ice dance element, if they have to be there, I appreciate ones that contribute to the story. When Scott touches Tessa's face in the Carmen FD spin, that creates a moment of tenderness which Carmen allows Don Jose (and of course it also makes the spin much more difficult). I love the alignment of their legs in that spin position. The way he holds her blade, then brings her out of the spin, suggests that at that moment Don Jose may have the upper hand, or perhaps that Carmen has let down her guard - not for long of course. I remember liking the Pink Floyd spin positions also.
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  20. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I like FF's dance spin, Tessa's hand positions were so delicate and the way she plays with her skirt.
  21. elle123

    elle123 New Member

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    I agree, I think the spins should be used more as a choreographic highlight than a technical element in ice dance that needs to be done. Although T/S may not have the best spins, I love how they create the positions in the spins to add to the storyline/choreography. Much better than teams (not going to stir the pot by naming any names) that seem to use the same spins multiple times and then just insert it where ever.

    Proustable, I like "Dance Me to the End of Love" as well!
  22. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    " Dance Me To The end of Love " would be a great thread title ..and an inspired Ex program
    ( Cohen version )
  23. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And Zhiganshina will win FD at WCh :hat1: :D
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    My vote for this title.
    But we need to down discussina little before T-S will not return from Russia :lol:
  25. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    what a lovely idea! it was the opening song at the concert i went to some time ago. i was immediately captured by the fantastic music.. and mr. Cohen's charm.
  26. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Found out T-S site were update. Not the way we all want with new photos, messages, but with some new articles. This one i didnt read before
    http://upfront.pwc.com/talent/267-getting-topand-staying-there.

    They are so differnet people :)
  27. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    thanx.. Scott could be a good coatch. he's strong, confident and motivating. he must such a big help for Tessa when she feels insecure.
  28. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Tessa said about this during fan meeting (about he will be good coach). But Scott said maybe he will be mentor in SC, if they will need his experience and will ask him to work in SC. And look like Scott could be good coach, but, like he sadi, for people, who want to learn to skate. he know, that not all the skaters are hapy to practice everyday and coach need to push them to work. Look like Scott didnt like to do this. And do you remeber, how he said to "Orange team", how Marina start to shout, when they disagree with her :lol:

    :eek:
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  29. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    Different people, yes, but they complement each other perfectly.

    I hate how hard Tessa constantly seems to be on herself, but I love that Scott seems to have the confidence that both need.

    It breaks my heart that they've felt this way. :( :fragile:

    {{{Tessa and Scott}}}
  30. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    I hope mentoring will be just the first step. I think Scott could be a great coach. He has the drive, the passion for the sport and especially for its technical side. I'm sure he'd find ways of communicating with the less diligent students.:)

    Mine too. Can you imagine them not winning in London, how they'd feel? My mind just doesn't want to go there.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  31. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    They were so robbed in 2011. :( I like them having that anger though. That's what's making them push themselves ahead.

    This is :eek: as well. Those 4 minutes of skating were the most effortless and easy that I've ever seen in any skating program. Just flawless.
  32. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I have impression Marina will ask him to be hre o-coach after OG. Other guys maybe will go in different ways, but he will stay in sport for sure. And he love Marina.

    Thats was my thougt too :( I wish T-S try to not focusing on results so much. And who tell them they didnt deserve medals in 2010? :mad:
    And i cant imaging, how Tessa, who is best ice dancer today, could thinking they are worst then other teams? Self-criticism is good thing sometime, but you need to belive in yourself, Tessa :)

    Even didnt want to remeber that day of 2011 WCh at arena :(
  33. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    My mind doesn't want to go there either. I cannot fathom it.
  34. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I hope I don't offend anyone but I have to admit the first thought that crossed my mind is are you sure they're really Canadian? ;) Thinking of B&K and S&P. :p
  35. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Tessa have strong communication wit her ancestors :D But Scott showed at last season GPF - he is Canadian ;)
  36. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Oh Scott. :rofl: What do you mean by Tessa's ancestors?
  37. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Sorry fro my english i mean her grand parents, who is maybe not from Canada :D
  38. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Oh ok, I thought maybe you were referring to them being from a specific country.
  39. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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  40. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you :) Very interesting. Hm, look like PJ a little angry on Igor :lol: But at the end this is very good he did "Carmen" for Anna and Luca. Thats why Tessa-Scott changed the first variant of Carmen and we could enjoy modern "Carmen" from Swan ;)
    Guys, if you will watching pre-GPF program on CBC let me know, what they were talking about. And cant wait to see T-S interview with Brenda. Hope they will be in Canton when she will come.