Virtue and Moir #22 - To Russia with love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    You will feel this way in any case, because you are D-W uber. So try to ask Meryl to work on her lines and stop doing ballet
     
  2. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but why do you think D-W uber, who never ask from D-W even to try to dance on ice, will see this? :D Just ignore. Disney its all about D-W its understanding.
     
  3. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    ITA with this. I think the Pink Floyd FD fits your description of capitalizing on their skills without being in lurve, but I really really want to see that go much farther next year.

    You have to admit though, it's not just V&M. Successful ice dance programs usually involve love or lust... Bolero, Air, Carmina Burana, various Carmens, Mahler et al, Romeo & Juliet, The Feelng Begins, Blues for Klook, Tosca, Spartacus, Masquerade Waltz.

    So now I'm trying to think of winning FDs that don't deal with love/passion/sensuality (tango/ballroom counts as romantic unless it's decidedly modern or danced by the Shibutanis ;)) ... 7 Deadly Sins, K&O's African Drums, Man in the Iron Mask, Libertas, Time for Peace, Adagio (B&K and DenSta), Memorial, Missing... it's not quite as common but it's certainly doable and I hope V&M do something like that next year. I really want them to do something like Missing.
     
  4. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Hope no. D-W or Shibs must thinking about this. Why not to try to respect that V-M put modernn moves and music feelings with such great connetction with each other& At least V-M look more mature this season then all other teams. Sorry, but its amazing how V-M all the time didnt made what they need :lol:
    Like one person said- any dance its relation between mad and a woman in different stage of there lives.
     
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I get what you're saying as well. V&M's chemistry is a strength, so why not use it? That's what Zhulin said - they are one of the only couples who can really show the relationship between a man and a woman. Using that for the Olympics is good strategy no doubt. I would just like to see them go in a different direction because a) I think they can do it, and b) I would love to show all the naysayers who think they only do first love that they can do the exact opposite style just as well as anyone. Since next year is probably their last FD ever :)fragile:) that's the time to do it cause most skaters just skate to GFBs in pros nowadays unfortunately. :(

    Lol, I'm pretty sure Marina has asked Meryl to do that. It's not as simple as sending her a memo. :p

    I've never thought of sap5 as a D&W uber... if he/she is, then they aren't one of the vocal or bashy ones, so why not leave it alone? sap5 has been nothing but respectful and civil in this thread even if we don't always agree with each other, and the discussions are very interesting. I see no need to disregard his/her opinions just because they might like D&W, as long as it's not done in a way that attacks V&M, which it isn't. Bashing D&W does not help in any way.
     
  6. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    ahem, sorry to interrupt the discussion ^^; just wanted to post this
    look at these close-ups of the moment the Toreador music begins:
    http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/627/vlcsnap2012111923h23m57r.png
    http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1249/vlcsnap2012111923h24m36.png
    it really looks like Scott is screaming of anger and madness, but Tessa is certainly not intimidated!
    this moment actually frightens me for the sudden violence of their movements after the soft, dreaming moments of "La fleur". it is really a burst of violent emotion right on the explosion of the music.
    the strongest they make it, the better. the same should be when an orchestra plays it, certain parts of Carmen should be executed so loud to the point
    of almost scaring people out.
    their faces in those screen-shots, as well as the following moves, reminds me of expressionist paintings, where the shape of the human face is altered because of some terrible inner distress.
    imo there should be a non-stop closing-up on their faces during this dance!
     
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Bashing V-M didnt help D-W no? :D Honestly i dont like when people try to made impression they are V-M fans, but form there messages its understanding they try to claim them down every time.
    Its interesting to read someone opinion, who dont care about any team and try to express there thoughts about ice dance in general. But not when any D-W are super and V-M never did nothing good from D-W ubers.

    O, now even "Carmen" is a first love. I dont think i have any argue anymore :D But guys, you need to choose - is this first love or pornography :lol:

    Yes, it was much better, when W-P showed love on ice last season and people in Canada put then at first place in there minds. And ofcouse, V-M need to show two robots at OG for give D-W gold in Sochi, because they have one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  8. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    :D
     
  9. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    I don't think they'll go abstract next season precisely because it will be their last, as well as being the Olympic year. To be honest, I'm not sure I want them to do that kind of FD either. Of course they could do it - and the naysayers would continue to criticize anyway. After all, Klimova & Ponomarenko never did an abstract program and that certainly hasn't hurt their legacy. Whatever they skate to, I trust them to make it unique. Finding out how they've made the switch from the first Carmen to the second makes me trust their judgement even more.
     
  10. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    So --- I am absolutely the most ecstatic figure skating fan ever as my husband just surprised me with tickets to Canadians. I would love to go every year but this year I was dying (no pun intended) to go and see them do Carmen live. I do have to get through my daughter's wedding first but boy do I ever have a great reward to look forward to.
     
  11. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Now i have the same thoughts. Before i had some ideas for them, but after i saw Carmen... Dont care about music, they will made something super and they now grow up ;)
     
  12. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    I am sure you will enjoy this FD. Especially i think at Nationals it will lokk better, then at the begining of the season.
     
  13. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    yea.. in my book love and lust are not the same things :) and Carmen and Josè don't even love each other. otherwise, they wouldn't try to destroy each other as soon as troubles show up :) in this FD Tessa and Scott tried something really different, that goes well beyond a banal "love" story. as much as they're connected (especially through their stares) their souls are basically separated. they are both alone, not together, because each one has an agenda about their relationship. "La fleur" is just a temporary moment of harmony but it's evident that it can't last long. i think that the whole choreography speaks of unevenness and hardship, much more than "love". forgive my horrible english! :/(
     
  14. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    i envy you a lot! ((:)
     
  15. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I´ll be the third to agree. Seeing how they handled Carmen I have complete faith they can take any warhorse and give us something fresh and exciting. And if you have a quality that no one else possesses among your competitors, something that sets you apart from everyone else, something that coaches, officials and your peers comment on as an admirable quality you would be a fool to not use it. It would be like asking D&W (for instance) to not skate so fast (and some people want them to slow down and finish their moves more but they don't, because they know speed is their ace in the hole). More times than not when men and women dance together there is some level of sexuality to it. Even in Pink Floyd there were moves in that program that I found sexual (if you ever watched the movie The Wall when the animated flowers come on and think of that lift where she leaps into his arms it's exactly what I thought of at the time, one of the reasons it blew me away).
     
  16. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I love that description! That's the mark of a good program... you can screencap any split second and you can see the story being told. Scott Hamilton used to say something similar about Oksana Baiul... you could freezeframe any part and she was in perfect position. :swoon:

    You know I didn't mean Carmen was first love or pornography. :p

    Probably so. K&P's Lawrence of Arabia was abstract (he was supposed to be the sand and she was wind), but your point is right, they relied on their romantic connection just as much as V&M have ever done if not more. And I agree, I trust their judgment and I'm sure whatever they do will be great. I never expected something as voidy as Carmen, and I couldn't be more pleased with their programs this year.

    Awesome! I wonder if they'll get a standing ovation at Nats... :p :lol:

    Interesting tidbit about Pink Floyd... I've never seen the Wall. I'll look for a vid. :) It's embarrassing how many movies I have watched just because V&M skated to the music. :shuffle:

    I do understand what you're saying, agree that they have good judgment, know they will probably do something romantic and that I'll like it. Just to make it clear, I'm not in any way suggesting that doing a romantic FD would show weakness or lack of creativity or that I would be disappointed. I just would like to see something else as well (unfortunately they'd have to skate to 100 to do everything I would like to see them do, hah). I will say though, that I don't think pursuing a different avenue would be foolish. The point is not to handicap V&M.

    Sometimes you can take your perceived weakness, face it, and make it your strength. This is one of the most difficult things to do in figure skating and it's very rare IMO. They did it with Carmen. When Funny Face came out there were debates about whether it was first love, too vanilla, etc. Some people posted they would like to see them do something voidier (me), others posted they liked V&M as is and that since they're good at light romance they should continue to do it. They chose to do voidy this year and I'm glad. They have convinced people I thought would never post anything positive about them. And maybe D&W should have slowed down and worked on positions; maybe had they done that for a year or two, they would have improved their posture such that they could pick up their speed at the same level but with better line.
     
  17. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Puglover can I entrust my banner for you to take to Canadians and then you can return it to me for worlds. Its an FSU collective effort. Pani provided the photo, Jess the caption and I had it done.

    Please, please!
     
  18. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Actually interesting that Sap mentioned disneyesque. I have always thought that Meryl was like a disney character kind of larger than life pretty perfect and self contained but without real human emotion and also with very little connection to Charlie. So it was so funny that a young girl asked if she was Snow white when looking at the Giselle program. And when I gave it a second look she really did have that disney look......

    I somehow cannot see the disney in T&S at all. Certainly not starting with Valse Trieste. Hallelujah was a masterpiece in sensuality and even I want to hold your hand had its stroking moments. Carmen was a natural mature fruition in their career.

    That being said I dont think they will do Disney next year and young love is not disney at all. Scott doesnt have the locks for disney IMO.
     
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  19. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    You are so right. The anger in the second picture is real .

    Amazing pictures... amazing program... amazing Tessa and Scott!
     
  20. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    ITA
     
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I think you're the only mom who would rather see Tessa and Scott than see her own daughter get married. :lol:
     
  22. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    i think that Funny face was about a particular kind of love, actually :) it is related to the story and the characters of the movie, and i would describe it more as a particular malhincolic mood rather than a feeling of love in the full sense. the goal was perhaps to stage a relationship, recreating the Broadway feel, as opposed to bring the audience in two enamoured souls as in Mahler. it's the difference between seeing a couple with our eyes, and see it painted or staged. our reactions are different in the two cases. there are also some touches of irony in the FF program, remember the lines, "for you're no Mona Lisa", or "you cant blame me for feeling amorous". there was also a bitter-sweet tone in the last song. what i mean is that love has so many angles and aspects and can be portrayed in 100 different ways. T&S have showed several of these ways, the grief of separation with Umbrellas, the peaceful passion and happiness in Adagietto, lust and adultery in Latina, comedy and malincholy in Funny face and..well Carmen doesnt fall in the cathegory of Love as i said above :)
     
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  23. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Beautifully put ...so agree with you.
     
  24. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you have a terrific hubinator puglover :). Of all the competitions, Canadians is the one I think where you can just sit back and relax and enjoy their programs.......I'm envious (I'm going to Worlds, but I will probably be a basket case :lol:)
     
  25. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    I am so glad that V/M's Carmen not only incorporated modern movements, but also used a non-literal interpretation of the story. I agree with Martyross, this Carmen is not about what literally happened to Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions and torment with one another. Carmen didn't die in this FD because in the end she was the one that crushed Don Jose emotionally which caused him to murder her in desperation. Tessa and Scott weren't the physical Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions danced out on ice, and this adds so many layers to the interpretation. Marina did a great job by going with this concept.

    Just to echo the sentiment that we will trust whatever music V/M choose to skate. I am going to Sigur Ros concert this Wednesday (front row center!!) and I was thinking how back in early summer I wanted them to skate to this band so much, then Carmen happened. And I have to say, their Carmen FD was infinitely better than whatever crap I had in imagined in my head :lol:
     
  26. Judy

    Judy New Member

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    I isn't see Funny Face as anything but a character piece and not a love story.
     
  27. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Nice try, pani. Everyone on this board knows that I like both teams, and that I've praised Carmen several times this season already. If you disagree with some things I say, that's fine. Lying about my posts is not. Finally, stop mentioning D/W in this thread. You are the only one who does that, and it annoys everyone, especially you!
     
  28. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see it just because I don't believe the man/woman relationship is their only strength. They are incredibly strong in that area, but I'd bet they are just as strong in other types of connection as well.

    ETA: LOL! Caption this!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  29. sequins

    sequins Active Member

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    :rofl:Oh that's just dying for a caption! Not just Tessa and Scott's expressions but the 3 ladies behind them in the crowd as well. :lol:
     
  30. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I'd caption myself saying I'm sorry I ever suggested they leave Zoueva. :rofl: