Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by MikiAndoFan#1, Nov 29, 2011.
Unbelievable. What an idiot.
Wow...I don't think I would have been able to sit there and restrain myself as well as those others on the train. I seriously would have knocked her teeth out. And then probably be arrested.
I suspect one reason she feels so free to "speak," is that she has the (adorable) child for "protection." It's disgusting.
She's been arested...good!
I can't open this at work. Will have to wait until I get home, but I am very curious, based on the reactions of posters here.
Can she lose custody of the child?
On what grounds?
Glad she has been arrested. The sad thing is that the poor child is sitting passively on her lap playing with what looks like an action figure toy,while his Mom spews her abusive vitriol so I am thinking it is probably something she does often because the baby was not upset at all. I hope she is investigated for child abuse.
Is it reasonable to assume she's putting the child in danger by holding him while spewing hate speech in a crowd? Just a thought....not sure how it fits into the law.
I can't view the video; did she say something worse than what's quoted in the Yahoo article?
Or do something physical? I mean, if you can get arrested for saying THAT, civil rights are in a sorry state. I realize they don't have the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment, but unless she said something a lot worse that was actively threatening, not just a vague possibility that someone might react violently, they basically arrested her because people don't like her opinion. All that accomplishes is proving in her mind she's right, the country's gone to sh*t, and just means she'll be more careful who she says things to.
In a free society, people should be free to say whatever they want, even if it's hateful, short of active incitement to violence (and heck, we overtly tolerate THAT here or half the Occupy people would be in prison already for calling for violent overthrows and destroying Israel and rot like that.) Other people are free to call those people idiots.
If anything I find it refreshing that SOMEONE, even if it's some cow who's probably on the dole and her real complaint is foreign workers demonstrate there are people capable of work, realizes that Polish people are not the same as British people because we're all white.
She probably was arrested for disorderly conduct.
Or for hogging a vacant seat next to her while other people had to stand.
Considering that some posters here have noted how easily a fight could have broken out, I would think it reasonable to assume there is a risk that the child would be hurt. Also, this kind of thing makes me wonder about her mental health in any event ... and whether that will affect her ability to care for the child.
She sounded drunk.
I bet her hubby/bf/father is a member of BNP or some white nationalist group. Pitiful.
This belongs in PI, doesn't it?
That would be a bit of a disproportionate response, don't you think?
I couldn't disagree more.
Worlds can inflict a lot of damage and vulnerable, marginalised groups need to be protected.
A civilised country should have hate speech laws. UK does, thank god.
Which means that - to give one example - every time Beenie Man or some other similar idiot enters UK, he has a long chat with the police at the airport who notify him that if he performs a song about burning or mutilating gays, he's going to get arrested and deported.
Huh? What do you mean?
First off, I suggest you watch it. Had she not been using her son a human shield someone could have beat her severally.
Laws prohibiting hate speech are unconstitutional in the United States, outside of obscenity, defamation, incitement to riot, and fighting words.
Even in the states she would have been arrested. The charges may not stick but the arrest was warranted. Yes, her child should be taken away until she is mentally evaluated, she was either drunk or high. I would have loved to see what set her off.
I'm actually surprised they found her.
I watched the video but couldn't get much sound. Based on the comments on the YT and here, it does sound like she was mad at people from other cultures moving into Britain. There are people in the USA that get mad about it too, but they don't yell at a public place- probably for their own safety.
I don't think people like her can be educated to be tolerant of others. She may not have had much formal education, but that's no excuse for hatred.
Yeah, she's entitled to say what she feels - but it's pretty dangerous - and pretty dumb - to say such hateful things where she's outnumbered.
And I'd think twice before breathing a sigh of relief regarding her remarks about Polish people - it sounded like she was saying that they weren't as "good" as British people.
While what she said was vile, it is not up to the government to arrest her for it. She should have been kicked off.
I think UK laws strongly prohibit talk like this. I am not familiar with the exact wording of it, but it has something to do with inciting. She didn't physically harm anyone, but speech can be interpreted by law as behavior, and I guess her behavior is what got her arrested.
I don't feel bad for her.
I'm not surprised by the woman's sentiment - a shipmate of mine, also African-American like me, was on liberty in Hong Kong and went to the enlisted club of the Royal Navy - this was 1988 - and was shocked by some of the talk he heard from UK sailors about foreigners in their country. But they had no problem with him, as he was American. But they had some vile things to say about Nigerians, West Indians and Asians. My friend drank his free beer and left.
Whenever the economy of a country goes south such sentiments unfortunately becomes more prevalent.
Sorry, but you cannot and should not try to fight fascism by practising it. I draw the line where there is a direct incitement to violence. But 'hatred'? Isn't all marxist rhetoric 'hatred' of the wealthy? And hasn't marxism in practice resulted in the deaths of tens of millions?
No, she wouldn't.
Although in the states, she probably would have been punched, and then THAT person would have been arrested.
She can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understood from danceronice's comment she agreed with that woman about Polish people being worse from British people...
This has got absolutely nothing to do with fascism.
Minorities who suffer from discrimination, social exclusion and disempowerement should be protected. Life is hard enough for them as it is and they are not playing an even field. Far from it.
(And no, marxist theory isn't "hatred of the wealthy", you clearly have no clue what you're talking about )
I agree the woman's a lowlife but as some people have commented on twitter I wonder if what she actually needed was a doctor more than the police.
She didn't sound drunk to me but she looked like she might have been high, and that seems like reason enough to question her parenting skills.
I think we've established now from previous threads that many people in the US really value their free speech rights and will not tolerate any erosion of them. In the UK hate speech is pretty strictly defined by the law and only covers particular types of hate speech including racism.
I have to say that i'm pretty glad that crazies like the Westboro Baptist Church loonies would not be able to pull the crap they do in the UK, but i also respect the US view of disagreeing violently with what someone says but fighting just as violently to protect that person's right to say it.
Why do you think this? Most (if not all) states have laws against disorderly conduct, which would apply to this kind of tirade (regardless of content); those laws would not apply if the same sentiments were expressed on a tee-shirt, for example. Even if no arrests, though, some states would allow the police to send her to a mental health facility for three days, while they examine her.
because I've been on tons of public transit with these kinds of outbursts. Talking isn't disorderly conduct. If she were impeding the train from moving forward in some way, or getting physical with other passengers, yes, but for spewing her hate randomly? At most she would be asked to leave the train - IF there was security on hand, which it doesn't look like there was.
And I don't think she's got a mental disorder. I think she's just a hateful bat.
Absolutely agree with this. But the people on that trains were adults & probably considered the source. She came off as an absolute low-life whose opinion carried very little value. The greatest harm she is doing is raising her son in that hate-filled environment.
The framers of the American Constitution probably had no thought or wish to protect people like members of the Westboro church. I don't wish to lose any rights, but I think my rights shouldn't include hurting others, either by word or deed. If I want to bury my dead soldier son in peace, I should be able to do so without a howling crowd screaming at me.
I think your generalisation is pretty ignorant.
Me too. Even more so considering the owner of this site is British.
Saying a people are insular is not an insult per se. Texans are insular, probably far more than people of any other state in the US. But I thought I was stating a fact about how many English people feel about Americans. I have heard all my life that the English consider us rude, brash, & ignorant. If that's not true, I sincerely apologize.
According to this link
In the States, she might have been arrested for a public order offense, but I am pretty sure there wouldn't have been an enhancement for a the content of her speech. There are enhancements for violent crimes with a racist component, but not for nonviolent ones, AFAIK.
Had she said everything in a quiet, non-disruptive way, things would be different.
As for the video, I was struck by the couple sitting directly behind her: a young black man, who is visibly distraught, and his white girlfriend, who is trying to comfort him and calm him down.
Agree-we live in this state with Fred Phelps and his God Hates Fags brethren. Their free speech, while disgusting, is protected. I am a strong believer in our first amendment and while I despise Phelps I understand why he has the right to make his vile statements.
If that woman were in this country I could see her being arrested for disturbing the peace but not for her speech. I do think she would have had a bloody lip though..child or no child. That poor kid.
**Note about Westboro---Within the last two weeks the local paper ran a long feature about Phelps 20 something year old granddaughter who appears to be taking the reigns instead of her insane, bitter (but smart enough to argue before the Supreme Court) mother. If you didn't know anything about her upon meeting her you would not know she supports Westboro. There is some speculation that other family members who have renounced Fred may be able to reach her and their dwindling following. Let us hope....
Well you're certainly ticking the ignorant and rude boxes. Your now edited statement wasn't controversial, it WAS insulting. Please don't choose to speak for me as an Englishman; you know nothing of my opinion of Americans or any other race or nation. If you choose to buy into media driven stereo-types based on anything but actual fact, that's your problem. But please don't attempt to apply the same rhetoric to an entire nation you clearly don't know very much about.
WRT the video - this has been circulating over here for a few days now and in this instance I am very glad that we do have laws against hate speech and that she can be prosecuted for her actions. ITA with Ziggy on this. As a member of one of society's more vulnerable minorities, I need to know that I'm protected in such instances that sadly are becoming all too frequent these days.
As I said, the charges I'm sure wouldn't stick but she for sure would have been arrested for the myriad of reason I stated before. Her hate speech and disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct could have very easily incited a riot and if not for her child on her lap, I have no doubt it would have.
I still would love to know what set her off, before the mobile went on.
It's a stereotype, not a set of instructions.
Always question those kinds of statements.
Sweeping generalizations are never good - I know that so I definitely shouldn't have done it. I'm really sorry.
I (an American) lived in England for 11 years - that's not true.
Nice to see your apology.
I have only had fab experiences with Brits...so they(except this woman) are fab in my books. Can I stereotype that?
And I am not just saying that because Sharps started up FSU...though she is one of the fab people I have met that came to Kitchener for the GPF.
Separate names with a comma.