US Pairs 2013 News and Updates Part II

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ~tapdancer~, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. figureit

    figureit New Member

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    I don't know it is an Olympic year. Do you really want to do this???? I don't think so. This is not a time to do this. You are a new team come out and show something, show who you are. Other teams have done it being together the same amount of time... I also think it puts Lindsey in a bad situation and it is a slap in the face to Mary Beth. I guess you are also right no one knows why and what has been worked out. I just don't think it matters this is not the year to do this but I guess everyone has their reasons? so onward it makes me curious about the other teams and seeing the internationals though.
  2. figureit

    figureit New Member

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    Artur Dmitriev did suffer some disrespect I remember it well but lets face it 6.0 system and years ago, Russians? when pairs was totally different. Like comparing apples to oranges in so many ways there is not enough room to type it. But really? D/B are in a totally different place against totally different competitors and a different system. Others have said there are reasons so I am game to bite that they have a good reason to do this in this age of technology and movement and IJS. I guess we'll see.
  3. 2sk8

    2sk8 Active Member

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    I agree that there is a question - that remains to be answered - about whether this choice on music/program was a good strategic move in an Olympic year, but I think that's a lot different than being "unethical," "tacky," and so on.
  4. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    It's youtube's fault! In the good ol days, nobody would have seen the video of the LA open. :lol:
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  5. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Alright thanks!

    Really surprised to see that Lui/ Perini didn't win this event, thought they'd only lose to Aaron/ Settlage this year. Also, Zaitsev/ Stevens scored considerably lower than they did last year as Novice's at nationals?? I wonder why, I was hoping to see them near the top again this year.
  6. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    I am betting outside of southern Cal many judges, officials, etc. will not even realize R skated to that music with a previous partner.
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  8. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    It surprised me when Rockne referred to it as "a very different program". As you mentioned, he isn't just reusing the music, he is reusing much of the same choreography. It seems the placement of their elements within the program was what kept them from using the identical program. Maybe a lot of people wouldn't have noticed (at least not until it was brought up here :lol:), but I feel for Mary Beth. I bet it did not feel good at all when she saw it. It's pretty much saying, "You don't want to skate this program, Mary Beth? Okay, someone else will take your place and do it for you." Maybe it's going too far to call it "mean", but it is inevitably awkward and rubbed me the wrong way a bit.

    To me, that program belonged to a TEAM, not Rockne, and once that team dissolved, the program should have as well. I think that would have been the right thing to do out of respect and appreciation for their partnership. This just reminds me of one of the reasons why I think US pair teams struggle... The individual skaters do not tend to truly think of themselves as a team, they think of themselves as separate entities looking out for themselves. And as a result, the chemistry of the teams tend to suffer.

    And things like choreography are glanced over more than they should be. It's the "easy way out" to reuse choreography from an old partnership rather than trying to find your own identity as a team. Of course new teams are pressed for time and may need to look for a shortcut here or there, but I just wish the shortcuts didn't come at an old partner's expense. Whether or not this truly bothers Mary Beth (we'll never know), doesn't really matter. It was still an awkward thing to do.
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  9. BittyBug

    BittyBug Quadless

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    So much presumption on your part. "At an old partner's expense"? Are you forgetting that it was MBM who walked away from the partnership, after the season was already underway? And how do you know who "owns" the program? For all we know, at their parting MBM might have said, "take it, it's yours."

    Here's the biggest reason why Brubaker might have opted to leverage the program: $$$$$$$. Skating is expen$ive! But if it bothers you so much I'm sure they'd be happy to have you fund a new program. ;)
  10. micronrd

    micronrd New Member

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::lol:
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    FYI, Good news

    https://twitter.com/chrisknierim

    It looks like Chris Knierim returned to the ice on 7-31. If you recall, he was off the ice for about 4 weeks for a 'broken bone'. It was never specified what was broken ...
  12. Pulaski73

    Pulaski73 New Member

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    I just think it was tasteless none the less to reuse a program in an old partnership. Rockne obviously believes that program is a great vehicle for the judges, but it shows that he doesn't really care about the partnership. It's obvious he only cares about his own success, no matter who it's with. My question is: Now that Mary Beth is back on the market, who will she skate with/Who do you want to see her skate with? Also: What has happened to Dalilah's camp? I've heard my favorites, Aaron and Settlage are injured, Scimeca and Knierem are injured and Simpson and Blakmer are quits. What's going on in Colorado?
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  13. 2sk8

    2sk8 Active Member

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    Wow! I'm not a D/B fan at all, quite the opposite, but this seems a bit harsh - because - I'm thinking coaches would have had a lot to do with the decision on the program, not just Rockne! Zoueva, "the visionary," would have picked a new "vehicle" if she thought it was needed, no?

    Your other questions are quite interesting!
  14. chachacha

    chachacha New Member

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    Mary Beth should have no problem finding a partner, but since she has spoken of why she took a break from the sport then she should stay away from the Colorado camp unless additional pair coaches become an option in Colorado. Had not heard about Simpson and Blackmer parting ways. But they are both very talented and should find better matches for themselves to become competitive in the senior ranks. Best of luck to them if this is true.
  15. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    All of what you say would have been true if Rockne had dumped Mary Beth as a partner and then went on to use the same program with a new partner. But that is NOT what happened. Mary Beth quit the team because of her own personal health issues, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the program. Rockne was the one left with no partner midseason. If he can save time and money by reusing a program which never got an airing, so much the better for the new team.
  16. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    How about Ryan Bradley? Any other recently retired Men's or Pair's skaters?

    If Japan can start a guy from scratch ....and turn him into an instant pair skater..certainly we have some guys with distant pairs experience that could give it a go.

    I really liked Mary Beth's grit and determination in pairs. I hope she does come back.
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Re S/K - See my post above. Your information would appear to be outdated, unless something has happened in the last 24 hours
  18. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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    Wait a minute, Simpson and Blackmer have split up? :( I hope this is false information. I was really looking forward to seeing their transition to the senior ranks this year.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    From Sylvia's Twitter feed -

    Denney/Coughlin debuted their SP and LP at an exhibition in CO this weekend, scoring 67.05 (SP) and 132.51 (LP). Obviously, the score are inflated but I wonder what elements they're doing? 2 sets of SBS triples perhaps??
  20. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I was really surprised to see this quote on The Skating Lesson's blogcast page.
    I guess I figured MBM would be okay with it, or Rockne would have asked, or something. She doesn't sound happy at all.

  21. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    I feel badly that MBM seems to have hurt feelings about Rockne keeping this free program, but considering the staggering costs of having a program choreographed and then getting to perform it only once in a small summer competition....? Seems like a fiscally responsible thing to do in such an expensive sport.
  22. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    I think she's having a moment of nostalgia. It's understandable. Rockne was her partner and that was their program.

    She should also cut Rockne some slack since it was her that ended the partnership. Rockne might not have the money to pay for another LP. As wonderful as it was to see him skate again, his Olympic dreams are on life support at this point. I don't blame him for cutting corners.
  23. Badams

    Badams Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I agree. And Rockne had to start all over again, again. I think him keeping a program that he already worked very hard on and learned and knows is the best thing he could do for himself. Let's be real, his window is closing and he needs to do whatever he can for himself. Nothing wrong with that. MBM walked away from the sport for very good reasons, but Rockne was still left high and dry. He was left in a very bad position. Nobody faults MBM for doing what was best for herself, and nobody should fault Rockne for doing the same. IMO, of course.
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  24. micronrd

    micronrd New Member

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    :lol:
    :COP: Well lets hope and see what Dr. Johnny and Marina can do to save the patient!
  25. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    When MBM was interviewed by Dave and Jenny, I remember her going on about much she loved that program. I can see why he would be inclined to reuse it, but I'm :( for Mary Beth.
  26. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like she's responding very emotionally, which isn't surprising considering (1) she's young and (2) the last couple of years have been hellish for her, and she's still really in recovery. Yes, it would have been kind and courteous of Rockne to ask MB or tell her, but for whatever reason he didn't. Not the greatest situation all round--for her because of the hurt and for him for looking bad re-using the program--but hopefully the hurt will wear off.

    BTW, I wonder if what Rockne meant by "it's a totally different program" was that it was a completely different experience emotionally in terms of skating it with (for lack of a better word) a fully grown woman vs a teen who was many years his junior (and there are probably other ways in which MB and Lindsay are simply different people, so the chemistry will be different)? I would think a romance-themed program *would* be different in that respect.
  27. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    Feel sorry for her. She may be regretting what she did. Bottom line, though, she walked away. She no longer has a say.
  28. halffull

    halffull Well-Known Member

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    I find it very distasteful to reuse the program. If I were Lindsay I wouldn't want to do a program that my new partner had choreographed with a former partner. Lindsay shouldn't have settled for a program designed for another girl. Very poor taste, no matter the cost IMO. MBM has every right to be upset. Yes, she walked away but if was for all the right reasons. Her health is of utmost importance. Shame on you Rockne and Lindsay for not respecting that and starting fresh with new partners and new programs.
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  29. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    MBM walked away from Rockne, it was her decision to do whatever she wanted but she really put him into a tough spot...and that's a huge understatement. He lost a whole season a year before the Olympics. I wouldn't want to pay for another program either when the one he had was only used once at a small summer compeititon. MBM has no right to tell her ex-partner what he can and cannot skate to with his new partner. I agree with the poster who said she has buyers remorse. She should just be happy that the ex-partner she broke up with is moving on, hopefully she will learn a lot from this.
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    But you're not Lindsay Davis, and she might feel very differently.

    Some people move into homes their current partner made with a former partner and feel it is a fine decision for them, after weighing the options. Davis may have felt or agreed that in a new partnership, it was a better us of their time heading into Sochi that Brubaker knew the program inside out and could focus on helping her through the learning curve, and that the program was a known entity.
  31. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    I also remember MB talking about how much she loved that program. I feel bad that she knows that Rockne is skating "their" program with another partner. But at the same time, Rockne's goal right now is Sochi, if using the same LP with Lindsey (SP?) was something that he and his team thought would help their chances to make it to Sochi by even a tiny bit, then I can't blame them for making such a deduction. The program was never debuted internationally, if it had it would be a different story. I hope after this that MB makes a heathy comeback to the sport though. She was by far my favorite US pairs lady.
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  32. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    There's been no indication that she regrets it one bit.

    She no longer has a say? Again, I wonder who paid Renee Roca for this choreo. There is no chance that back when they worked on this in 2012 that Rockne paid 100% of Roca's fee. Either they split it or MBM's family paid 100% (very common in US pair partnerships for the family of the female partner to take on the majority/all of the costs).

    But let's assume they split it, you would think Rockne would go back to MBM and at least have a discussion with her about this, considering that she "owns" half the program. Instead, MBM only learned of this recycled LP along with the rest of us when she saw it performed last week.
  33. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If Marley had said, "I'm upset because I own 100% of this program or 50% of this program, and I feel ripped off" that would be a different issue, but her statement shows that his decision is a personal slap. While it might be a "nice to have," a jiltee's first obligation is not the feelings of the jilter.
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  34. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I like both Rockne & Mary Beth, and was sad to see their partnership end, especially after having viewed their last exhibition performance to "La Vie en Rose" & "What A Wonderful World".

    But, Mary Beth ended the partnership and is getting the help she needs (bravo!). And she did it early enough so that Rockne could find another partner and, hopefully, realize his Olympic dream before it's too late (he's already 27 yrs. old; he'll be 28 by the time of the next Olympics). Neither sad a bad word about the other. Classy on both their parts.

    Let that classiness continue. jmho.

    silence is golden
  35. figureit

    figureit New Member

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    Just not smart and isn't his dad a doctor??? I now skaters where their dad's are out of work or the older skater has to try to pay for it themselves and they make it work. Plus he is on split team funding right? Just saying even though skaters have trouble with funds if you have a chance for the Olympics you sacrifice and go for it but to claim money when your dad I believe is a doc? Not sure that will fly ....or is the point anyway.
    Regardless...
    You put your best out there and try to should your individuality and give your best. Putting together a new program especially if your regular coaching staff does the choreography and is Marina??? is not that hard. Instead of learning the pair spin you learn the beginning of the program. Instead of working on triple twist you do a footwork section. Instead of paying to have music done you do it yourself I am pretty sure he could have cut something. There are just options but maybe someone else who knows him or her better can comment on money...I don't think if you are a doc you have trouble with skating funds. If you are a roofer or teacher then it is a killer so I understand that for sure!! and maybe I'm wrong that is just what I heard. Money is not an issue there.

    I think last year there is a team that showed us that being together 10months then going to World's being top ten for the USA they unfortunately threw away the stereotypes that short term means you can't gel. Someone with the experience of Rockne knows this and having had the same coach knows this so there is some other reason...not financial not that they are new...something else. It may be a strategy you never know.
    Although I feel sorry for MBM I mostly feel sorry for Lindsey too. She is like stepping into MBM shoes instead of her own very capable shoes who knows though maybe it will work and given their coach I have to believe there is a strategy there somewhere??

    With US Pairs coming out like gangbusters this year I would be terrified to do a program anyone knew...HE has a capable coach...so maybe it will all work out. SOrry for MBM:(
  36. analia

    analia Member

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    I bet my 50 cents that D/B won't make it to the Olys. Bad karma it is...You don't piss off people to get to the top. It is a small circle and disgruntles get real very fast. Reputation is sort of important, especially at national stage.

    The problem is, D/B does have bigger throws and twists than the rest of teams, but those teams probably have more realistic opinions about themselves, are not rushing and have better gel and chemistry. The only thing going for D/B is the throws and twists. Mess up one element, D/B's chance is done for good. I sympathize with Rockne, though I'm not sure if he has to always cry poor. I'm sure he isn't the poorest of all the skaters out there.
  37. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Wow, a little harsh on Rockne much?

    I don't believe he himself has claimed that the cost of the program's choreography is why he's adapting it for his new partner. I believe it is posters here who have suggested that cost may be a reason (and a valid one IMHO) for not shelling out more $$$ for a completely new program.
  38. chachacha

    chachacha New Member

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    Well for what ever reasons Rockne and Lindsay did what they did. Look at Scimeca and Kneirim there new short program is the same music he used with His former partner, Andrea Poabst, papa can you hear me? Very tacky as well regardless if new choreographer or not, but for whatever reason Rockne and Chris and the new partners dont care how there former partners feel. Very unfortunate and I'm with analia, bad karma for sure. But to each there own.
  39. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    Bad Karma? Denney/Coughlin, anyone?
  40. chachacha

    chachacha New Member

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    Here is the link of Poabst and Kneirim show their 2011 short program on there bio, which was the same music he now is using with Scimeca.

    http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/detail.jsp?id=40231&mode=P
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