US Pairs 2013 News and Updates Part II

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ~tapdancer~, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    This news was just passed along to me... Lindsay Davis & Rockne Brubaker made their club competition debut earlier today in Ann Arbor, Michigan - I'm told they scored 54.74 (27.99 TES/26.75 PCS) in their Senior Pairs SP exhibition. That's all I know at the moment.
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  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Not bad. It would be interesting to see their scores on individual elements.

    I agree that D/C still are the most consistent and highest scoring US team right now, but they've got rapidly improving teams right behind them. My thinking is that if the improvement among a team like S/K continues, D/C will get supplanted. M/B in their 2nd year were beginning to be competitive with D/C by beating D/C in the SP at '12 Nationals. What would a team like D/B be able to do against D/C, who seem more cohesive and better paired than M/B?

    The push on all the teams is going to perhaps create a situation where we get (finally) some top notch teams at the Worlds level
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ True, high-level talent and competitive U.S. teams pushing each other should have a beneficial effect on overall international competitiveness of U.S. pairs teams. :)


    Thanks, but does this mean all these teams will move up to compete at senior U.S. Nationals in pairs?


    Thanks for the info. Are any vids available btw?
  4. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully having a full season under their belts and stronger choreography will help S/K improve and reach a higher comfort level on the ice. Like them or not, D/C get through their programs with an ease and reliability that is unmatched by the other US teams (and most teams in the world). It's very hard for the other US teams to outscore them, and the only time that it's happened was when they fell in the SP at '12 Nationals. I'm not expecting anybody to "supplant" them, but considering the fact that S/K have some of the same strengths that make D/C so good (the big, well executed triple twist and throws: 3FTh + 3LoTh, which maxes out the difficulty on throws aside from the rare team that can do a 3ATh or greater), I could see them possibly beating D/C even with D/C having a pretty good skate. S/K were quite impressive and well received last season. It will be interesting to see how much more difficult they make their programs and if they can maintain the relatively good consistency they displayed last season in the process. And I'll be interested to see if Marcotte's choreography helps D/C, her work is outstanding.

    I was also impressed by the improvements of D/F and Z/B last season. D/F are a nice overall package with no substantial technical issues, and I hope they can maintain the poise that they displayed at Jr Worlds and find consistency. C/S also got quite a bit better, both in terms of choreography and consistency, but the issue with their throws probably needs to be solved for next season. Their second best throw triple or higher appears to be the 4S, and it's tough to rely on an element that's so difficult.

    Beyond that, it's pretty hard to say at this point.
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ ITA with your assessment of Denney/ Coughlin's strengths:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjRFbisOFsE 2012 Worlds FS D/C

    But had M/B stayed together I think they had grown to the point where they might have put up quite a spirited challenge to D/C's dominance. Alas, it was not to be (with M/B's pre-season split and D/C's unfortunate injury late last season). And now we'll see how strong the new Davis/ Brubaker pairing can become with enough time and experience together. Probably this coming season will be one more of gelling for D/B.

    I think Sciemeca/ Knierim are another exciting pairing and they hugely benefited from the chance at high level exposure last season. It was perhaps a bit of luck and magic (in addition to hard work) how quickly their partnership has achieved such success. I still think S/K will have to steadily improve their consistency and competitive experience in order to "supplant" D/C. They also need to continue building, polishing, and finding their on-ice identity. But the possibilities and potential are palpable.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxXYfzjNpTo 2013 Worlds FS S/K


    Re C/S, I think the height difference is an advantage with their lifts. With their throws perhaps the height and power is so huge that control becomes an issue for Marissa. I think C/S and their coaching team are very aware that the sbs elements and combo spins are their weakest elements made more difficult to overcome due to the height difference. They make the combo spins work for them, but have yet to overcome the challenges posed by the difficulty of achieving line and unison with their sbs spins. There is something quite dramatic and fearless about Marissa and Simon as a team. I do like them and I hope they are able to persevere and take things to a new level artistically and athletically. Again, I think they would benefit by more concerted and devoted off-ice ballet training to help improve their line, unison and performance qualities. But I think it bears noting that C/S are the defending U.S. National pairs champions and likely will be unwilling to relinquish that title without a heated battle. If they come out next season consistently strong and even more improved, C/S could surprise.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zognRBwLQkw 2013 4CC FS C/S


    Denney/ Frazier are still young yet, but amazing. If they continue to grow and develop in all aspects, what a wow they can be. Lots of magical moments here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eihOf2ZoyQ8 2013 JWC FS D/F

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbezXksMaa0 2013 JWC exhibition D/F

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LR3PQY7HU8 2012 D/F montage by Brandon's brother
  6. sammyf

    sammyf Well-Known Member

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    The following teams should be skating senior next year.

    Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth -S8
    Becky Bereswill/Joshua Reagan -new
    Jessica Calalang/Zack Sidhu -J2
    Marissa Castelli/Simon Shnapir -S1
    Lindsay Davis/Rockne Brubaker -new
    Brianna De La Mora/Taylor Wilson -J5
    Caydee Denney/John Coughlin -S WD
    Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier -S5
    Gretchen Donlan/Andrew Speroff -S6
    Tarah Kayne/Daniel O'Shea -S7
    Dee Dee Leng/Timothy LeDuc -S9
    Olivia Oltmanns/Joshua Santillan -J11
    Jessica Pfund/AJ Reiss -J6
    Alexa Scimeca/Chris Knierim -S2
    Alexandria Shaughnessy/James Morgan -J10
    Britney Simpson/Matthew Blackmer -J1
    Felicia Zhang/Nathan Bartholomay -S3
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I don't yet know if Calalang/Sidhu, de la Mora/Wilson, Shaughnessy/Morgan, and/or Oltmanns/Santillan have taken their Senior Pairs tests - they have until the end of the summer to decide.

    ETA:
    Aaron/Settlage J3, Liu/Perini J4, Zaitsev/Stevens N1, Budd/Cheban N2, Takai/Johnson N4, and Dai/Fishman N5 are the 6 ISU Junior age-eligible teams currently listed in the ISP (along with Denney/Frazier who plan to make their senior international debut).
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  8. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    If all of these teams go senior, I hope that they are talking to each other. Here is where they might stack up:

    BYES:
    Castelli/Shnapir
    Scimeca/Knierim
    Zhang/Bartholomay
    Denney/Frazier
    Denney/Coughlin (Not guaranteed, but very likely)

    Easterns
    Baga/Toth
    Donlan/Speroff
    Kayne/O'Shea
    Oltmanns/Santillian
    Shaughnessy/Morgan

    Mids
    Bereswill/Reagan
    dela Mora/Wilson
    Leng/Leduc
    Simpson/Blackmer

    Coasts
    Calalang/Sidhu
    Davis/Brubaker
    Pfund/Reiss

    Someone from Easterns needs to fill the void at Coasts! TALK TO EACH OTHER PEOPLE!!!!! (I really wish that Pairs and Dance would go to one Sectional and the top 12 teams would advance to nationals. It would save so much time and money, and the coaches wouldn't have to decided which couples to support. They would just go to one location.)
  9. hippychick

    hippychick New Member

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    Denney and Frasier have a bye to Nationals for finishing 5th at Senior Nationals last year.
  10. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    Note to Jayar, sammyf, Sylvia and others - Thank you for using full names. Quite honestly, I just skip posts that use initials. I am too old and too brain dead to try to figure out all the different team names from initials. I enjoy reading the opinions of those who take the trouble to use full names. I bet I'm not alone. Thanks again.
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  11. jkl

    jkl Well-Known Member

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    What A.H.Black said:)
  12. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Baga/Toth competed out of Midwesterns last year.
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    But, don't you think that D/C are maxed out in their scoring potential? They do a great 3twist, the harder throws -3f and 3l, SBS 3toes and 2x-2x seq. and were achieving higher levels on their non-jump and non-throw elements pre-injury. But even doing all that clean, they are stuck around 180 pt. totals and their international scores reflect that they lose a lot of ground to the top teams on the PCS side (which is more of a chronic problem and harder to fix). Thus, I think teams like S/K (who are still 'in the rough' but exhibit a greater ease of movement) and perhaps D/B (too soon to tell) could pass them even in the upcoming season.
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I get ya, but it remains to be seen.


    And, A.H.Black, I totally understand what you mean. I particularly get lost sometimes in dance threads with all the initials. Perhaps a first mention of full names would be helpful and then abbreviations. I try to remember to do that, but I don't every time.
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth trained in the Chicago area last season. They recently relocated to Boston and are working with Bobby Martin and Carrie Wall (I believe they spent a little time here and there with them last season).
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  16. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the information, Sylvia. Is Kiri working with Mark Mitchell and Peter Johansson for singles then?
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Yes.

    Registered teams for the inaugural Fort Wayne Pair Classic, June 7-8:
    Senior SP only - Donlan/Speroff, Kayne/O'Shea, Baga/Toth
    Junior - Budd/Cheban (N2), Takai/Johnson (N4)
    Novice - Knoop/Chinault (N6), Gallagher/Horton (N8), Bertsch/Hale (Int1), Burke/Schwab (Int2), LaChance/Anderson, Cirinia Gillett/Maximiliano Fernandez (new team coached by Jim Peterson & Lyndon Johnston)

    FYI, it currently looks like no Senior pairs will compete on Saturday (I heard that Shaughnessy/Morgan are likely WD from the FS), but there should be additional Senior pairs not competing who will be there attending the National Pairs camp/monitoring part of the event.
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  18. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Wow, three very good U.S. pairs teams under Martin and Wall ... I didn't realize Baga/ Toth had relocated.
  19. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    My info from the skating director--current planned schedule, at least:
    Best times to see some teams skating their programs:
    Friday: June 7th
    5:30-6:40pm ┬ľNovice/ Intermediate/ Junior
    6:50-7:50pm -Junior/Senior

    Saturday: June 8th
    10:00-11:50 ┬ľNovice /Junior/Senior

    And I guess the camp will be going on all weekend (?) and will include teams & coaches from all over the US (including, I am told, the 2013 national champs). :)
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  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thank you, LilJen! Will you be able to watch any part of the competition this year?

    It currently looks like Skate Detroit will be the main pairs competition in the U.S. this summer. Scimeca/Knierim and Denney/Frazier both have mentioned in recent articles that they will compete in Detroit, just to name two top teams.
  21. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Come hell or high water, yes!! I should be volunteering on Friday night for the SPs.
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  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the Indy Challenge the main Summer event in August? Is it still around? Come to think of it, I believe I read in another thread that something happened to the rink?

    ETA - I just saw another thread open giving tentative dates for Indy Challenge.
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    My hearsay info is that Skate Detroit is this summer's competition of choice of the main U.S. pair coaches.

    :)
  24. azcalder

    azcalder Member

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    Thanks a million. I'm with you. I just skip the posts with initials. I realize with texting everything is abbreviated, but please take the time to add full names. I know you have good things to say,and this senior citizen is interested. However, initials is just too much mental gymnastics.
  25. yfbg722

    yfbg722 Active Member

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    I've heard this is also the choice of Canadian coaches, not to hijack the thread.
  26. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Yes, usually it is, but the downtown Indy rink that usually hosts it is closing. It'll be just north of Indy this summer.
  27. jkl

    jkl Well-Known Member

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    So if the main US and Canadian pair coaches are sending their teams to Skate Detroit where does that leave Indy Challenge two weeks later?
  28. figureit

    figureit New Member

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    I heard Indy had horrible ice a couple years in a row. It was wet like a lake and endangered the teams so not sure how but there was a consensus that Detroit would now be the main competition for the pairs. I think Canadian teams want to be were the main US teams are so all can gauge how the year will stack up by competing against each other early in the season but this is what I have heard. I think it should be exciting cause most top teams will be there and it is early. Does anyone know if it will be taped by IN or someone else? IF the main teams are there I for sure want to watch it. Exciting year!!!:D:)
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  29. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    It's tough to say. Some of your scoring potential depends on who you're compete against, quite honestly. We've seen scores for teams like Bazarova/Larionov and Sui/Han really rise in events where they were more of a "favorite". Denney/Coughlin usually ended up going against teams like Volosozhar/Trankov. You can't really score that high in PCS against teams that are so much better than you in PCS (if that makes sense).

    Last year, D/C still were having a tendency to throw away levels here and there. On something like SBS spins, you want that to be level 4 every time. And I'm not sure if they've reached their full potential on lifts. I'd like to see them keep searching for lifts that show that team off in the best possible way.

    They probably can get better program wise, too. Hopefully Marcotte has given them good material. They of course have their weaknesses (some that aren't so fixable), but all the other teams are in the same boat. At the end of the day, D/C will still have fewer weaknesses than pretty much all the others.

    Apologies to anyone confused by posts with initials on this site. I often type out full names and then go back and shorten them to initials in an effort to make my paragraphs less obnoxiously long. It's hard to know what people prefer. I'll try to use more full names now.
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
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  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    A very thoughtful response. Well said. Immediately, they could try to up the ante by adding a 2nd set of SBS triples to their LP (3-2 or 3-2-2). They are consistent, so maybe it's time, although I'm not sure how much that will add to their score in lieu of a 2x-2x sequence. The comment about their lifts is on the money. There should be level 5 lifts where Caydee is not forced to show off flexibility, effectively masking that weakness? She's no ballerina. But, IDK the various lifts or their values.

    As far as other teams having their weaknesses: I was bored yesterday and watched the best of D/C and S/K on youtube back to back from last season to see the differences. I confirmed my earlier point that the 'potential' is definitely there for a team like S/K to pass D/C. S/K need to learn to intertwine the choreography and that special something into their big elements (ironically, the same issue as D/C). But the ease of movement by S/K and the overall look/positions on the ice as they flow in and out of elements, and even the height / length on the 3 twist and throws, is notably superior to D/C (looks that way anyway), and subsequently IMO gives them a bigger PCS weapon, which given the fact they've only been together 1 year, makes them a pretty big threat to pass them in the coming year(s). It's just something that can't be learned. Of course, it all has to come together for S/K but they are also apparently working hard to strengthen their choreography and interpretation.

    M/B at '12 Nationals had effectively caught up to D/C in the SP (I realize that D/C had a fall, but if you added in points to make up for the fall, I think they'd have been fairly even) after being together just over a year at that point. D/B on paper would be an even more effective team, but of course no judgment can be made. I do like what I see from them in the end of April exhibition programs they performed.

    I guess my broader point is that there are teams with more innate skating skills in the US that might keep D/C out of the top 2. But, we will see how far D/C go in correcting their 'chronic' issues with Julie in Canada. I have teams that I prefer but I don't dislike any of them, and I wish them all the best! Pairs is probably the weakest link of all 4 disciplines for the US, so whoever can break through I will applaud.

    Sorry for the post if it rambles ...
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  31. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Great assessments (olympic and stjeaskategym) regarding these teams skating strengths and weaknesses. One other thing that always factors in is political favoritism. Denney/ Coughlin appear to have the political edge at the moment, unless something changes.
  32. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    We'll see what happens in the Fall during the GP series. S/K will have some cred from international judges from their top 10 finish at Worlds. But, D/C are still the top US scorers overall.
  33. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    The Skating Lesson's interview with Alexa Scimeca & Chris Knierim (~14 minutes): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VmxrHDocQ
    ETA: I had forgotten that Jenny Kirk won 2000 Junior Worlds skating her FS to the Ever After soundtrack, which is Scimeca/Knierim's FS music this season.
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  34. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ They look so cute together ... the opening minutes to the interview were funny. Alexa definitely should keep tweeting all she wants to about her happiness with Chris.


    BTW, I was wondering re the novice pairs who skated at this past U.S. Nationals, which teams are still together? Did Lianna Thomas and David Botero stay together? Has Elise Middleton found a new partner yet?
  35. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I still think Alexa is Gracie's older sister. They look so much alike. :eek:
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Known to have split after Nationals - at least one partner is or was listed on IPS: Middleton/Hennings N3, Herr/Lueck N7, Thomas/Botero N10, Erickson/Fleming N11.

    Elise Middleton is skating with Anthony Evans from Texas (he's 21 & too old for the JGP, unfortunately) and they are coached by Peter Oppegard. I haven't heard any news about the others.

    4 Novice teams from Nationals are listed in USFS' International Selection Pool and eligible for JGP consideration: Zaitsev/Stevens N1, Budd/Cheban N2, Takai/Johnson N4 and Dai/Fishman N5. B/C and T/J are scheduled to compete Junior at the Fort Wayne Pair Classic in Indiana next weekend.

    2 other Novice teams from Nationals are scheduled to compete Novice in Fort Wayne: Knoop/Chinault N6, Gallagher/Horton N8, Bertsch/Hale Int1, Burke/Schwab Int2, LaChance/Anderson, Cirinia Gillett/Maximiliano Fernandez (new team coached by Jim Peterson & Lyndon Johnston).
  37. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the detailed information, Sylvia. Do you know why some of the novice skaters are not listed on Ice Network under the Skaters section?
  38. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  39. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    I believe Kristen Jennings/Cody Dolkiewicz have split. Alicia Bertsch/Austin Hale (won intermediate) will move up to Novice (still need to pass their Novice test, AFAIK).
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thanks for the info! Kristen Jennings/Cody Dolkiewicz placed 9th of 13 Novice pairs at Nationals. Intermediate champs Alicia Bertsch/Austin Hale put up a very good Novice SP score at the Ann Arbor competition earlier this month - I'm compiling the known club comp. pairs scores (Senior to Juvenile) here: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/2012-2013-pairs-scores/
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
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