US Pairs 2013 News and Updates Part II

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ~tapdancer~, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I just got to watch the penultimate group of the Pairs LP today (Saturday AM) and again watched the IN ON-Demand Video of the final group. My impressions:

    Having watched everything, I absolutely find it a travesty that S/K (w/ 2 small mistakes - hand down and 2-foot) and D/F (clean) were 12 - 15 points behind D/C (w/ mistakes - 1x-1t-1t) and Z/B. I realize that Z/B were clean and inspired and arguments can be made for the standings the way they were, but neither team was THAT far ahead. C'mon!

    And I would rather watch S/K's huge, sweeping elements than Z/B's teeny throws, jumps and twist any day (I think Judges at Sochi are NOT going to mark them kindly). S/K have issues w/ choreography and interpretation, but I also find Z/B so generic. I even preferred K/O w/ 2 mistakes.

    Between D/C and Z/B, I would have still gone w/ D/C. Bigger elements, etc.

    IDK, it could be that Z/B just happens to be my least favorite team - Clean or not. There is nothing interesting / inspiring to me in their movement across the ice - whether it be grand elements or WOW choreography or interpretation. I'm sorry if that's harsh.

    My take is that the judges probably didn't want to deal w/ any backlash of leaving a clean, inspired performance as the final performance in the final group off the Olympic team
     
  2. Meteorlight

    Meteorlight Active Member

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    I thought the same thing after watching Group 2! They definitely did not benefit from the hyper-inflation that was the standard for the last group. I thought S/K and D/F were both severely underscored (compared to the last group; though actually relatively fairly otherwise). This was especially unfair for S/K, who were really very close to the top 4 after the SP but really got screwed having to go first in Group 2 ... though personally I enjoyed Denney/Frazier's FS more this time and thought they were faster (judging by my computer screen anyway), but they were pretty much out of it after the short so the bump in score inflation between the groups made less of a difference for them imo.
     
  3. figureit

    figureit Member

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    If you read my previous post I am interested in pairs I think it is a beautiful difficult discipline but you seem to personalize it ? I love the look of S/K (who I think will be our first American pair to have a quad twist and have HUGE elements, a relationship on the ice only that can be improved on) and also of K/O they connect and have a beautiful line with class. They just seem to be what US pairs needs for the future an have HUGE potential Internationally. Who knows what any of the pairs are thinking especially in the off season?? DO you know?? these are just opinions like everyone else so not sure why you are attacking me personally for having an opinion?? Maybe it is because you have a relationship or are a hater of them? NO idea?

    They I think got two of the hardest GP on the circuit when you are up against World and Olympic medalists you kind of know where you are going to place no matter the skate. Due to injury that hurt them but they rebounded at Nationals and that was admirable. I also think competing against such great pairs will help them in the future being use to a World stage. K/O had some mistakes in the long but I think they have HUGE potential Internationally as well and I can't wait for them to be on the ice with the top World teams too. They have confidence and a beauty that will only improve as well.

    The National Champ(s) were protected by being sent to the easy GP's in an Olympic year as it has always been for the most part no big surprise there so they can medal (just an opinion as well). I still think K/O, S/K and even D/F (even though they are young and very bouncy need maturing) have the lock on the future if they stay in but who knows pairs don't usually stay together that have this potential.

    I happen to not enjoy the skating of C/S because they seem to hate each other and are just not beautiful to watch as far as line but they do have power and strength in that (opinion) I don't mind Z/B but they are very weak in the big elements and relating to each other they also had horrible competitions this year but seem to love skating together. Lack of consistency ? not any more than a lot of the talented teams hmm like the Russians and Germans at Euro's it happens.

    USFS is political and make political moves year to year that is not news? Sometimes you are given a lot and sometimes not this Nationals is a good example of that (ie:women, pairs) and even that I find interesting. Fair or not fair? Doesn't matter it is whatever it is. It was interesting though that watching the Spectacular S/K were the only medalists not shown and that I was looking forward to but there are a lot of competitors I would love to see exhibition numbers from that don't happen.

    How would any of us know what S/K or any of the pairs are thinking in the off season that is a really weird and mean thing to say and unnecessary as well. None of us knows what will happen or what any of the teams are thinking in the off season? I wish i did know. Who knows who will be teams even?

    Opinions about pairs in this forum is interesting to discuss and I personally respect the comments as there have been some great ones made and I have learned a lot. Again the team is picked and USA is supported in my book it is done. What will happen in the off season is and will be so interesting!! As who knows?? I just hope that at least three of the senior teams stay together and continue to improve as others have said pairs is getting more exciting!

    Go USA!!
     
  4. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    If S/K have a quad twist, they not only didn't show it at Nationals; they only added enough features to their triple twist to get level 2 on it. But they do have a very lovely triple twist
     
  5. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I still say that Chris came back way to soon from his injury and they were never the same after he got hurt.
     
  6. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Probably, but they looked decent by Nationals LP. Here's hoping they make a mark this week at 4CC's. I'd like to see them medal
     
  7. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    ^I thought S/K looked fine at Cup of Russia, too. It was one of the better US pair showings on the GP this season. CoR was arguably the best pairs event on this year's GP, and S/K ended up behind several top teams in 6th, but their score would have been enough to medal at NHK. They're still pretty much a new team, and this year is the first season where they are going into competitions with real expectations. That can take some getting used to, and maybe that could help explain some of their inconsistencies in addition to his injury situation (which clearly affected them). But to be fair, D/C were the only American pair to show much consistency on the GP this year.


    I don't believe anyone said S/K have a quad twist, and I don't really hope for them to try a quad either. Their triple twist is easily one of the best and most aesthetically pleasing twists in the world. One thing they could work on is adding a difficult entry before the twist, and then they'd receive Lvl 3 for it. Actually, I'm somewhat confused about the twist levels, because to me it appears that D/C go for the same features as S/K in their twist (clean catch & the man's arms dropping), yet D/C regularly receive Lvl 3 while S/K regularly receive Lvl 2. I'm quite familiar with the pairs rules, but I must be missing something here.
     
  8. yfbg722

    yfbg722 Active Member

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    Is Caydee getting the split before rotating? That gives them another level.
     
  9. lauren329

    lauren329 Active Member

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    The National Champions were not protected at all on the GP. Skate America had a very tough field with V&T, MTM & M, Russian S&K, Berton & Hotarek and Caydee and John. USFSA sent both of these teams knowing it would be an uphill battle for bronze and that both teams would not medal. I don't think they really cared which one did and ultimately neither did. NHK- the field was a bit easier but you still had V&T and two strong Chinese pairs. I would say the CoC field was maybe marginally harder. S&K were hardly thrown to the wolves and Marissa & Simon were far less protected and promoted than other National champions like Max & Ashley.

    I also don't get this notion that Marissa & Simon hate each other. Is it just because they've been candid in interviews that their relationship has been up and down? And NBC now needs to mention that on every rare occasion they show pairs. Look at the pictures of the Kiss & Cry after they won, the press conference after the Short Program where he says nothing could break them up and their interviews from Boston on IceNetwork. What I see is two people who probably are pretty different personality wise but know each other well & have a tremendous amount of respect for each other. They're obviously not in love, they're probably not best friends but they seem like totally committed partners with a lot of history.

    As for S&K, I think the injury played a role but I also think they buckled a little under the pressure of being in the Olympic picture. Last year they skated like they had nothing to lose because they had nothing to lose as a first year team. This year, with a lot on the line, they were nervy & cautious. She in particular seemed to make mental mistakes. Even in their clean free skate, they were lovely but slow and cautious. Denney & Frazier who followed them were a lot more dynamic in person even if S/K have the aesthetics going for them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  10. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    She must be, but I'm puzzled by it. There is a clear attempt at a split, but she bends her leg quite a bit to help launch herself in the air, so it's not really that much of a split. I could understand giving teams a level for that, but I don't see why S/K wouldn't receive the same level considering their split looks similar, with the main difference being that Alexa's leg isn't as bent. It doesn't look to me that her legs are at any less of the required 45 degree angle than Caydee's, but every judging panel this year has thought differently than me. :lol: The only thing I can think of is that most video from this season shows D/C's twist from behind, so maybe the 45 degree angle is more apparent from the front? But I just don't see it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  11. yfbg722

    yfbg722 Active Member

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    They're not my favourite American team so I have to confess I haven't watched them even once this year lol.
     
  12. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    Agreed. I don't think Marissa & Simon hate each other, and I don't see any tension in their actual performances. What I do see is a bit of lack of connection between them. At times they still skate like 2 separate people out there on the ice, not a full pair. But I don't see hatred/dislike. I think people just enjoy the drama of "the team that hates each other!" and take it & run with it.
     
  13. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    So going forward what US teams have the most potential in the coming years? I still say S/K are out best bets to be a top 6 team if they can get it together. I still say he took the ice way to soon and they should have never competed at Ondrej Nepela. They should have bypassed that event and used the month they had until COC to train and let him get stronger.
     
  14. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    I want to give a shout out to Marissa and Simon. Each skate in Sochi has been a new personal best. They are doing such a great job and wearing the title of US Champions so well!! I am so happy for them!

    Add their performances to what Kayne and O'Shea did at 4 CC and the future of US pairs is looking up!
     
  15. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Any news on pairs splits post-Nationals?
     
  16. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    I know of one major one, but it is hush for now...
     
  17. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I'm :wuzrobbed already and I don't even know who it is. I have to quit getting attached to these teams. :fragile:
     
  18. jkl

    jkl Well-Known Member

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    Has Matt Blackmer found a partner?
     
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. It can't be C/S or Z/B. It can't be S/K. They are still a couple AFAIK. It can't be K/O. They are hitting their stride in a major way

    Major would be D/C - He has wanted to retire since 2011, hasn't he?
     
  20. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    I'll bet it's D/C. Alexa Scimeca has just tweeted a couple things in the last few days about her & Chris being more in love than ever and how they're looking forward to the new season along with their coach. So it can't be them. I doubt it's Z/B. And I do think with John's injury last year and his age, the likelihood of him & Caydee making it to 2018 is pretty low.

    I really, really hope it's not C/S. As we watch this Olympics, they're getting so much better and starting to come into their own, I really hope they keep going now and don't retire or split. They're just now starting to reach their potential, finally!! But with their history and Simon being already 26, they've probably considered retiring. I just really, really hope they don't.

    Recently there was an article on Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier in a FL newspaper, linked to here somewhere--anyhow, in it, their rink director mentioned the possibility of Denney/Frazier making Worlds this year due to "retirements." I was thinking--there must be something being talked about in skating circles, otherwise why would she say that?

    johndockley92, can't you give us some clue??? . . . I hate this suspense. :-(
     
  21. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if it is D/C. In an interview Caydee did after the Olympics it sounded like she and John wouldn't be sticking around together. But if they retire before Worlds I will be really ticked.
     
  22. lauren329

    lauren329 Active Member

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    I imagine its D/C. That whole partnership was building toward this Olympics and with the young talent (K/O, little Denney & Brandon and Z/B who already took their Olympic berth) coming up and C/S now decisively unseating them as the definitive US #1, there's no reason to stay. I do hope they go to Worlds because with the way C/S are skating, we could possibly go 6-7 and clinch a third pairs spot in a depleted field. Then they can go away forever. Sorry, respect the consistency but I never need to see another D/C program as long as I live.

    I don't see S/K splitting unless they break up as an off-ice couple. Alexa is intense and I think missing the Olympic team has her ready to be out for blood at Nats next year, not pack it in. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll leave their coach.

    I doubt C/S will retire. Yes, they're 26 and 23 but look at the ages of the top 5 pair teams after the Olympic SP. They have established them as the clear U.S. #1 and will get deserved respect internationally going forward after these solid Olympic performances at the Olympics. And Worlds is in Boston in 2016. I think we'll see them 2 more seasons at least and wouldn't be surprised to sneak in for a World bronze.

    Good luck to the US Pairs today!
     
  23. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    To be honest i see many teams that can pass up Z/B in the next couple years. If D/C stay together S/K, K/O, and even younger teams like Denny/Brandon and LeDuc/Leng.
     
  24. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    I would not miss D/C - although yesterday during Pairs SP I was musing on how much I used to like Denney and Barrett together. Denney and her catlike landings and her fug posture used to be really exciting back before she was (unsuccessfully) repackaged to be Caitlin.
     
  25. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Active Member

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    I think you're right. This week Alexa tweeted a picture of her, Chris & Dalilah which was titled "Team Dalilah" and said how excited they all are for next season. I'm probably reading into it way too much, but I took that as possibly an answer to critics (like myself!) who have suggested they leave Sappenfield. At any rate, doesn't look like they're going anywhere. My hope now is that they get better choreography, at least, next season.

    Is anyone else a wee bit surprised that we haven't heard of a Davis/Brubaker breakup yet?? Maybe Rockne's too busy cheering on Stefania. :)
     
  26. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Rockne is one lucky guy.
     
  27. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

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    It could be funding-related. IIRC in the past we start hearing about a number of splits after the last cheque of the season goes out. I think everyone here would be absolutely stunned if they ended up staying together.
     
  28. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    He really is!! It was so cute in the K&C when she kissed her engagement ring and then blew him a kiss.
     
  29. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    In Vancouver we had D/B at 13 and E/L at 10 right? So we moved up to 12 and 9 this year. That is progress in the right direction at least!!
     
  30. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Hah, how glass half full! It's been a rough quad overall, starting with the Yankowskas/Coughlin split. Not sure I'm optimistic about the upcoming one either.
     
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