US Pairs 2013 News and Updates Part II

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ~tapdancer~, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    You can watch their TEB videos here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-and-updates&p=4053911&viewfull=1#post4053911

    TES / PCS breakdown of Grand Prix FS scores:

    Denney/Coughlin 63.54 / 56.95 (120.49 at TEB, skated 5th in FS)
    Denney/Coughlin 63.38 / 56.99 (120.37 at Skate America, skated 3rd)
    Castelli/Shnapir 57.46 / 57.09 (114.55 at Skate America, skated 4th)
    Scimeca/Knierim 57.78 / 56.36 (114.14 at Rostelecom Cup, skated 4th)
    Zhang/Bartholomay 60.63 / 51.96 (112.59 at Skate America, skated 2nd)
    Castelli/Shnapir 55.30 / 55.99 -1 (110.29 at NHK Trophy, skated 4th)
    Denney/Frazier 54.10 / 55.08 (109.18 at NHK Trophy, skated 5th)
    Zhang/Bartholomay 55.79 / 50.40 -1 (105.19 at Cup of China, skated 1st)
    Denney/Frazier 53.35 / 51.37 -1 (103.82 at Skate Canada, skated 4th)
    Scimeca/Knierim 49.81 / 54.92 -1 (103.73 at Cup of China, skated 5th)

    Davis/Brubaker 52.47 / 49.55 -1 101.02 at Skate Canada, skated 2nd)
    Davis/Brubaker 47.50 / 52.81 (100.31 at Rostelecom Cup, skated 2nd)

    ETA Senior B FS score breakdowns:

    Denney/Coughlin 65.35 / 61.46 (126.81 at USIC)
    Kayne/O'Shea 54.22 / 53.74 -1 (106.96 at USIC)
    Donlan/Speroff 53.09 / 53.47 (106.56 at Graz)
    Calalang/Sidhu 53.66 / 52.68 -1 (105.34 at Cup of Nice)
    Kayne/O'Shea 53.83 / 51.85 -2 (103.68 at Graz)
    Castelli/Shnapir 52.32 / 53.33 -2 (103.65 at USIC)
    Donlan/Speroff 50.70 / 53.86 -1 (103.56 at Nepela)
    Davis/Brubaker 51.14 / 51.73 (102.87 at Nebelhorn)
    Scimeca/Knierim 52.63 / 50.54 -1 (102.17 at Nepela)
    Denney/Frazier 50.24 / 44.53 -1 (93.77 at Nepela)
    Leng/LeDuc 38.26 / 48.80 -4 (83.06 at Cup of Nice)
    Zhang/Bartholomay 37.70 / 42.27 (79.97 at USIC)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  2. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thoughts on U.S. pairs. I'm not that worried about the SBS jumps for our pairs. Yes, they're a weakness. But in point of fact, SBS jumps are hit-and-miss for most pairs teams. Just the last two weekends, we've seen S/S, P/T, B/L, and MT/M all struggle with them at various points. How many teams really are consistent with them? Right now, V/T, maybe D/R, and actually D/C (but the latter are doing lesser content). I'm not saying our pairs are good at SBS jumps--on the contrary, I feel like shaking Simon for his continued misses on all the SBS jumps. But at the same time, I feel like it would be a mistake for U.S. pairs to overly focus on this element. If you are great in other areas, like the top teams in the world, you will be forgiven some mistakes on SBS jumps. It's the other areas our pairs need to work on. Personally I feel the areas most lacking in U.S. pairs are:

    1. Speed and edge quality. Most of the U.S. pairs need much faster, stronger stroking. As good as S/K are, they look really slow at times. Speed is #1 in pairs. You must have it.

    2. Overall "pairs quality." I think of pairs quality as the team's overall synchronization, unison, and smoothness of connection. If a team has good overall pairs quality--just their ability to move well as a team--then high PCS scores will follow, even if the programs aren't great or groundbreaking. U.S. teams just need to get a lot better in this area. Too many times during U.S. pairs programs, you see the partners reaching for each other after an element--and being too far apart--or they're out of sync on footwork--or the pairs spin is slowing down because their changes of hold are awkward--just so many moments like that. Just the basic quality of the partner skating needs to be better.

    3. Attack. When you watch U.S. pairs, they're doing arm movements, they're doing footwork. But it all lacks attack and crispness and sharpness. You compare Scimeca/Knierim's SP, for example, to Stolbova/Klimov's SP in Russia. Stolbova/Klimov obviously had issues, but still they had that characteristic Russian sharpness and attack in their movement. Their upper body/arm movements were strong, focused. Scimeca/Knierim's movement looked sort of soft and indefinite in comparison.

    I know this sounds negative, but I only say it because I want so much for our pairs to improve. With S/S, V/T, P/T and more retiring after this season, and no real obvious successors, there's really a chance for U.S. pairs to take a big step in the next quad and start to be a factor, if they can work on these issues.

    Just as a side note: I'm wondering if Scimeca/Knierim would benefit from a coaching change. They seem very comfortable with Sappenfield but I'm not sure if she's the coach to take them to the top level. Anyone have thoughts on this?
     
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Good points. I only referenced SBS jumps because that is an obvious tech issue and you are right, other teams have jump issues but can make up points based on all those intangibles that you outlined which contribute to PCS. I think S/K's romantic involvement so far helps them (so far!) but yes, refinement and attack / speed will hopefully come with time. They are still relatively new as a pair.

    I applaud C/S for their commitment to PCS, too but again they need to do something better than a 2-2 in the LP. The brick wall for US pairs: Trouble w/ 2 sets of triples AND bringing all the PCS together
     
  4. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    US actually has much more depth in Pairs then Canada does. You could say the same thing about Canadian Mens also compared to US Men. It's just that their top man and Pairs teams are better then our top men's and Pairs team right now.
     
  5. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I thought this thread was supposed to be about American/USA Pairs. :rolleyes:

    And on that note, I'd just like to say I'm proud of all of our Pairs, they did great this past season, now onto Nationals! :cool:

    Btw, Graz, Austria, provided a livestream to the Ice Challenge Gala as well, and you can see both American Pair Teams skating their respective exhibitions: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1743329/events/2546284

    Here's hoping Donlan & Speroff do well enough at Nationals to get a 4CC spot. :smokin: That would be a great way to end their season. :hat1:
     
  6. apollo13

    apollo13 Member

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    Here's hoping they go to Sochi and to Worlds. That would be a better way to end their season. :)
     
  7. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    I think they should stick with her. It's way too early to say that she's not the right coach for them, especially since they've only been together 1 1/2 seasons. Also, she's taught him for quite awhile.
     
  8. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

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    I know it's still early in their career. But if you think of them as the U.S. pair with the most overall potential, the question is how do they maximize that? Chris is 26 now, will be 30 for Pyeongchang, so I think you have to look at this next quad as the prime of their career. Who can help them get to the World medalist level? I think of a coach like Richard Gauthier. He's shown he can take pairs to that World champion/medalist level. He'd done it now with at least 3 different pairs. Whereas Sappenfield has not shown that yet.

    I think Alexa & Chris have great potential, but they're going to need to push themselves. They need more speed & also better material. This year's Ever After LP is like their Moonlight Sonata SP last year--nice & pretty, but it doesn't make a strong impression. Compare it to Antipova/Maisuradze's Pink Floyd/AC/DC LP or Stolbova/Klimov's Addams Family LP. While those LPs are surely not to everyone's taste, they are at least different & somewhat memorable. They help those pairs stand out a bit. Whereas Ever After is nice but generic. To some extent, I question Sappenfield's packaging of both Scimeca/Knierim and Denney/Coughlin.
     
  9. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Marissa Castelli/Simon Shnapir and Gretchen Donlan/Andrew Speroff deserve kudos for being the only 2 teams still together from 2011 Nationals! :cheer:

    Ice Challenge Senior Pairs SP archived video (Donlan/Speroff skated #3 and Kayne/O'Shea #6 of 6): http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1743329/events/2546284/videos/35394856
    Senior Pairs FS (K/O skated #3 and D/S #4 of 5):http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1743329/events/2546284/videos/35546010
    SP protocols: http://www.skateaustria.com/ergebnisse201314/Icechallenge/SENIORPAIRS_SP_Scores.pdf
    FS protocols: http://www.skateaustria.com/ergebnisse201314/Icechallenge/SENIORPAIRS_FS_Scores.pdf

    Scimeca/Knierim's Rostelecom FS (British Eurosport): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2Kli269fk

    ETA link to a new site for North American Pairs & Dance - scroll down to see the "U.S. Senior Pairs, Season Total Score Progression" graph so far this season, along with a scores compilation: http://www.twofortheice.com/pairs-2013-14/
    (too bad I didn't come across this new site before I compiled all those FS scores in post #661!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  11. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    Syliva, thanks for the link to the new site. The graphs are cool.
     
  12. icellist

    icellist Member

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    A few skater's fb photos come up on my news feed. There's always the after GP event reception and every time Rockne Brubacker never joins the US team to take a picture. Does anybody know why?
     
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    How do you know it's "every time"? :confused:

    ETA link to a nice Team USA pic from Graz, Austria:
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  14. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he's the photographer?
     
  15. icellist

    icellist Member

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    Sorry, hyperbole on my part, but at both of his GP's this season he didn't go. Believe me that I'm not trying to start a controversy
     
  16. yfbg722

    yfbg722 Active Member

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    Maybe he's chronically late, maybe he's the photographer, maybe he doesn't enjoy the drunken hi-jinx that typically go on at the after party. There could be many perfectly legitimate reasons for his absence.
     
  17. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    USFS tweeted this "winning moment" when Simpson/Blackmer became the 2013 U.S. Junior Pairs champions last January:
    There now are 12 Senior pairs scheduled to compete at Nationals:

    Byes (8):
    Marissa Castelli (The SC of Boston)/Simon Shnapir (The SC of Boston)
    Lindsay Davis (All Year FSC)/Rockne Brubaker (All Year FSC)
    Caydee Denney (Broadmoor SC)/John Coughlin (Kansas City FSC)
    Haven Denney (Panthers FSC)/Brandon Frazier (All Year FSC)
    Gretchen Donlan (The SC of Boston)/Andrew Speroff (The SC of Boston)
    Tarah Kayne (Southwest Florida FSC)/Daniel OÂ’Shea (Skokie Valley FSC)
    Alexa Scimeca (DuPage FSC)/Chris Knierim (Broadmoor SC)
    Felicia Zhang (SC of New York)/Nathan Bartholomay (Southwest Florida FSC)

    Eastern Sectional (exhibition) - Alexandra Shaughnessy (SC of Boston)/James Morgan (SC of Boston)
    Midwestern Sectional (both elected not to compete) - DeeDee Leng (DuPage FSC)/Timothy LeDuc (Eastern Iowa FSC) Britney Simpson (Broadmoor SC)/Matthew Blackmer (All Year FSC)-SPLIT
    Pacific Coast Sectional - Jessica Noelle Calalang (DuPage FSC)/Zack Sidhu (Las Vegas FSC), Jessica Pfund (Broadmoor SC)/AJ Reiss (Los Angeles FSC)
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  19. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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  20. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I was looking forward to their programs as well, they had a great look together on the ice. But I thought the lack of a big height difference might make the transition into Seniors particularly challenging for them. He is not a particularly big guy, and she's a little taller than the average pair girl (5'3"). They handled the size difference well in Jrs, but with the extra lift in the LP and the necessity for a clean triple twist in Srs, it gets quite a bit tougher. They might have been able to manage, but with the injury issues this year, they were facing an uphill battle to be able to compete this season. It's a shame they didn't at least get to compete at Nationals.
     
  21. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I'm sad for Simpson/Blackmer, but I'm glad that they are both planning to continue.
     
  22. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    Simpson/Blackmer...somehow I knew this was coming. :(

    I'm really sad for this, will always enjoy their Titanic program, it was lovely. Best wishes for both of them in their future!
     
  23. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    What sad news to read after the Thanksgiving weekend. :(

    Seriously, I've always said they were one of my favorite jr. pair teams, tied with Madeline Aaron & Max Settlage, and was so looking forward to them debuting as Seniors this year. Their "Titanic" program was truly iconic, their masterpiece, what they'll be known for.

    She in particular really draws the eye with her passion and musicality. Reminiscent of Sasha Cohen in a way, but taller and longer limbed. Therein lies her downfall in pairs skating though. :( Methinks this is the real reason why neither of her partnerships lasted more than 3 yrs. And makes me wonder if she has grown even taller than 5'3"? :confused: After all she is 17 yrs. old now and may have grown a bit more...

    Here's hoping Britney does not have to look outside the USA for a partner, the same way Caitlin Yankowskas had to do, whom after searching for a couple of years finally found her 6-foot tall+ prince in Great Britain. :)

    Take heart young Britney, and look to pair couples like Vanessa James (5'6")/Morgan Cipres(6') and Sui(4'11")/Han(5'7").
     
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  25. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks for posting that, Sylvia, didn't know what additional challenges Chris Knierim had to overcome until I read that article. Kudos to him for holding it together after the debacle of his passport being in his coach's possession (whom flew home to the US while S&K did the gala), and thank goodness he was able to stay with Evan Bates for a few extra days in China (to save on cost) while waiting for his passport to arrive (thumbs up for his parents coming through & mailing it to him, though I think his coach should have, jmho). All that (and on his birthday no less :eek:) and they were still able to do good in Russia; better than they did in China. :cool:

    ps: the things these skaters go through is really an eye opener, and makes me appreciate them even more! :hat1:
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Here's a very good local article on Alexandria (Alex) Shaughnessy, who has been skating for 5 years with Jimmy Morgan -- they will make their senior national debut in Boston: http://duxbury.m.wickedlocal.com/wkdDuxbury/db_103475/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=fbMLVytD
    Excerpts:
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Boston Globe article focused on Gretchen Donlan/Andrew Speroff: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/re...er-olympics/5ccnuE9OTx922lpZ0C3UZM/story.html
    Excerpt:
     
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Proud of them for achieving a PB at RC in spite of all the setbacks. I'm relieved to hear there is nothing physically wrong with Chris
     
  30. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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