US Pairs 2013 News and Updates Part II

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ~tapdancer~, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    D/B debuted internationally at Nebelhorn. Fall on the throw 3s in the SP; couple of mistakes in the LP, like bailing on a lift altogether. They seemed unhappy with their 5th place finish but honestly, this was their debut and they've only been together 7 months. It wasn't bad at all
     
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    snip (bold mine)

    Is he OK to compete w. a metal plate and 9 screws in his ankle? :confused:

    LOL at dancing in a chair:rofl: But, they seem really motivated if he insisted on training from a chair
     
  3. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Disagree a bit. Certainly a big positive was they put out the triple twist. The rest of the FS, including lifts and throws, was not as good as at Skate Detroit in July. Next event will tell the tale, though.
     
  4. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    As long as it doesn't hurt him it shouldn't be a problem!
    I thought Davis/Brubaker were quite good but the Skate Detroit performance isn't fresh in my mind. Yeah, they bailed on the one lift, but I thought the presentation was much better overall. She needs to get rid of the headband for the SP, though!
     
  5. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I thought Lindsay looked absolutely miserable at Nebelhorn. She seems to be under a tremendous amount of pressure to get Rockne on that Olympic team. :(

    Beyond that, both programs are completely bland and forgettable. The SP looks like it's borrowed from a novie team and the regifted LP is soft and lyrical, yet conveys zero emotional connection between the two of them. I also don't know if soft and lyrical is the best fit for Lindsay and her explosive power.

    We'll know after the GP if they have any shot at the Olympic spots, but I won't hold my breath.
     
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  6. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Rockne's team needs to focus on keeping the female half of the team unstressed and happy. He's lost too many solid partners to make the same mistake again. Lindsay has a lot of potential. They haven't had near enough time and mileage to gel as a team, yet she's expected to get him on the Olympic team. I feel for her.

    I really miss Rockne and Mary Beth.
     
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  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Agree with some pertinent points made: D/B need time to gel as a partnership; I too miss the Marley/ Brubaker pairs partnership (that lp they were working on for last season would have been so wonderful -- the fact it was reworked for Lindsay and Rockne this season I don't think should be seen as problematic). Because D/B is a new partnership, they need time to adjust as a team, and so the decision to use a program that a lot of work/ money was put into makes sense. This is D/B's first competitive season as a team, so I think it's unrealistic to expect them to make the Olympic team right off the bat, especially with the improved talent and competitiveness of U.S. pairs. OTOH, had M/B been able to work out the problems Mary Beth was having psychologically w/o breaking up (pretty tall order considering) then I'm quite sure M/B had a wonderful chance to make the 2014 Olympic team as U.S. National champions. Alas, it was not to be. I hope Lindsay and Rockne will not put added pressure on themselves. They need to pace themselves, find out what works for them together and what their unique and individual strengths are that will make the team grow.

    At this point, more than likely, Denney/ Coughlin and Castelli/ Shnapir will be on the Olympic team with of course, Scimeca/ Knierim and Zhang/ Bartholomay having strong outside shots for the second spot. And Lindsay/ Rockne battling for top five along with the other talented U.S. pairs teams. A very strong Scimeca/ Knierim might have a good chance to finish in first place.
     
  8. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Kind of surprised by the gloom and doom posts further upthread regarding D/B. She fell on the Throw 3s in the SP. Their mistakes in the LP were bailing on the 1st lift (went on to successfully complete the others), out-of-synch SBS spins (Keauna and Rockne for years had synch problems, though), and HIS messy landing on the SBS 3sal. She hit all her jumps/throws/twists in the LP. Considering this was their debut, it didn't seem bad at all.
     
  9. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    The doom and gloom on my part is not really related to what elements they completed at Nebelhorn. On paper it wasn't bad. But go back and watch the videos w/ Kiss and Cry. She looks miserable. She has the weight of the world on her shoulders. In the Kiss and Cry after the LP, Johnny Johns tells her that she has to smile and she attempts the most painful, sullen half-smile.

    I know others are saying that they should focus on gelling as a team and look beyond the Olympic year, but that is not what is expected of this parternship by Team Rockne. It's been made pretty clear (implictly, and occasionally explicitly) that the goal of this year and this partership is to get him on that Olympic team. That's an enormous amount of pressure for a first-year team.
     
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Who makes up Team Rockne, btw? Please supply implicit and explicit references re "the goal of this year and this partnership is to get him on that Olympic team."

    Couldn't Lindsay's expression have just been simply more about her own disappointment in not wanting to make any mistakes in their debut. I don't know Lindsay well enough to be able to read what her expressions in kiss 'n cry mean. Neither did I understand exactly what Mary Beth's expressions in kiss 'n cry meant. For that matter, I don't have a clue what most kiss 'n cry expressions really mean ... :p

    But maybe you are more in the know. :sekret:
     
  11. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    Both Rockne and Lindsay have said their goal is to qualify for Sochi. Posts about debuts, taking time to gel as a team, developing unison, etc. are nice, but it's not unreasonable to analyze their performances with their stated goal of a top-two finish at nationals in mind.
     
  12. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130219&content_id=41779584&vkey=ice_news

    From Rockne in the article announcing the Davis/Brubaker partnership:

    "My goal is [to make the Olympic team] next season, but if I can go to two Olympics, I'd love to," he said. "For me, the two things that will dictate that will be my health and finances."
     
  13. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Well, I hope that, whatever the outcome re: Sochi, they plan to continue for a few more seasons at least. There's too much promise there to just drop it all after one season.
     
  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Mostly agree with your assessment - The deepening talent in the US pool of Pairs means the road to Sochi has many more obstacles for D/B than it would have in 2008, when Keauna and Rockne fresh out of Juniors wowed the crowds and the GP circuit, but only had US teams like I/B and C/O as real competition on the national front. Teams that at the best of times could only land SBS 2x's. D/B even has more obstacles than just a little over a year ago in 2012 when Rockne and Mary Beth as a fairly new pair were top 10 in the World and leaders after the SP at '12 Nationals.

    In just the past year, on top of (1) D/C (who were pretty darn good at the US Intl. Classic), the US has had teams emerge like (2) a better-packaged C/S (though they need to find their footing on the SBS jumps; hope that isn't reemerging as a problem!), (3) S/K who have emerged as a top 10 World team after only a season together (ON Trophy will tell more; he was injured). (4) D/F (World Junior Champs), (5) Z/B (terrible start, but hungry team capable of hitting all their elements + levels and achieving high scores at least nationally). (6) K/O is suddenly a player just based on their US Intl. Classic performances. They score well with Intl. Judges even with mistakes, and (7) even D/S seem really committed to landing SBS jumps finally. Point being - it's kind of crazy for Team D/B to think they'll get a spot for Sochi not because I think they don't have the talent, but they've had too little time together to just ride past the US field to be National Champs or National Silver Medalists.

    I do hope that they were merely disappointed with their performances at Nebelhorn, and not as some have suggested that they were miserable, especially Lindsay, because their road to Sochi is overwhelming them! As I wrote, it's unrealistic and they are young enough to enjoy the road to Pyeongchang '18!

    But I do prefer Lindsay to Mary Beth as a partner for Rockne, only because I find her a better fit; more mature skater allows them more latitude in choosing program themes

    I think honestly you'd have to put S/K on the same tier as D/C and C/S. They beat C/S at Worlds, won the LP at '13 Nationals and were pretty wow with at least their SP at the Summer comp. I'll completely reserve judgment based upon ON Trophy just because he was injured, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if Team Sochi was D/C and S/K.

    I agree though that Z/B are a tier below for the time being - they lack grandeur and a certain explosiveness at this point, even if they achieve levels and execute cleanly.
     
  15. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Well-Known Member

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    FWIW I have always thought that Lindsay looked upset in the Kiss n Cry. When she was with Mark Ladwig I thought she looked miserable....even though their results were fairly good for a new team. Maybe she is upset with what she sees as her own mistakes, not necessarily something that is bad in the pairs partnership. JMO.
     
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Leng/LeDuc and Calalang/Sidhu are listed on the entries list for the Cup of Nice in France, Oct. 23-27 (still to be confirmed on USFS' International Assignments page).
     
  17. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    My gosh I cannot believe all this bs and conjecture in regards to Davis/Brubaker. I for one saw them skate two beautiful programs with a few glitches here & there that need to be ironed out, just like the rest of the US pairs that have skated thus far, as Castelli/Schnapir and even Denney/Coughlin had a few similar hiccups last week at the US International Classic.

    It's still early in the season and all of them have plenty of time to get ready for US Nationals, wherein hopefully they'll be in top physical condition and ready to fight for a place on the podium and a spot on the Olympic Team! :smokin:
     
  18. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Is Rockne quite a bit less bulked up than he was a few years ago? He looks less muscled. The LP was a snooze.

    I still miss McLaughlin/Brubaker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPDMdSD8f9Y -- also skating to slow music, but with tremendously more connection to the music and to each other.
     
  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Sylvia.

    I'm happy to hear about this. Figured it was a given, though, due to their relatively successful Summer competitions. It seems like all the top 10 US teams have at least one international competition in the Fall, so I wonder who will be sent to Ice Challenge. Perhaps the USFSA is waiting to see if D/B or D/F or S/B get a 2nd GP as a substitute, but would send any of them to Ice Challenge if that doesn't happen. Maybe not S/B or D/F is Ice Challenge interferes with RC or NHK....

    Or perhaps they would send K/O as a reward for the US International Classic performance
     
  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, olympic, re your #494 post, I definitely mentioned that I feel a very strong Sciemca/ Knierim have the ability to battle for the top spot at U.S. Nationals, so certainly they are top tier along with the two U.S. pairs teams who I feel are leading at the moment especially in terms of the way they've each started out of the blocks this season (i.e., Denney/ Coughlin; Castelli/ Shnapir).

    The thing re S/K is seeing how they fare in a big pressure, sophomore season. They are great together and obviously have amazing potential. What they lack and need to get under their belts is experience and competitive longevity as a team.

    In terms of the comments of/ by/ about Davis/ Brubaker ... I still feel they need to pace themselves and not put so much pressure on making the Olympic team their first season together. Focus on growing learning and developing as a team this season rather than on envisioning the pot at the end of the rainbow. If they stay focused on their work together as a team, then perhaps their competitive season will fall into place with some great accomplishments that might not necessarily include making the U.S. team, but instead will serve as building blocks to their becoming a top competitive team internationally. A lot goes into that aside from wishing, hoping, and rushing their expectations. I do understand the complicated emotions/ difficulties involved in getting older, staying healthy and struggling to garner the resources to continue training.

    I see quotes in your cited article, reese, from both Rockne and Lindsay about wanting to make the Olympic team (if not this coming year, then the next time around), as which hopeful athletes don't have that desire? I don't see what either of them said as being all about Rockne alone getting on "that team," and Lindsay only an afterthought serving his interests. Of course, he'll never be able to do it alone. IOW, he'll never be able to do it without developing and sharing a true partnership. Has any pairs team been able to accomplish Olympic success without a dedicated and singular focus on developing together as a team?
     
  21. AKA

    AKA Member

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    Is there a list of who is competing what at sectionals in novice and junior pairs? Seems there are many new teams this year.
     
  22. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same. McLaughlin/Brubaker became somewhat of a physical mismatch (similar to Davis/Brubaker in that respect, actually), but they were really "right" for each other, and it was a true partnership. Keauna had an it factor, and there was a genuine connection between the two of them.

    Individual pair skaters are only as good as the partnership they form with someone else, and how they looked with previous partners no longer matters. Davis/Brubaker are solid jumpers who can present decent looking programs, but I think the rest has a ways to go. With the talent in the US pairs program right now, I think it would be a little disappointing if this new team ends up being one of our best at Nationals. They just haven't had enough time and there's nothing about them that really grabs my attention. It's all a little dull to me. It's definitely different than how I felt about a team like Scimeca/Knierim bursting onto the scene.

    I'm sure it must be stressful for them because they're still trying to learn and fix things, yet there's no time to do much because competition season is already here. There are certain elements that I wonder how much better they could even get with time...They've shown good effort in their attempts at triple twists, and you can see they are trying to up their difficulty in their lifts and get their throws bigger, but those elements probably will never look as comfortable as they do for some of the other US teams. I hate to sound overly negative because they did skate well at Nebelhorn.

    On another note, I like the improvements that I have seen in Denney/Coughlin. When I heard they were keeping the same long program (granted, they hardly got to use it last year because of his injury), I wasn't sure if we'd see any difference, but they have gotten better, reworked some of the program, and the last lift is a real step up in improving their look. Being able to hide weaknesses is sometimes as important as accentuating strengths. Their confidence and comfort with each other on the ice is one of the things I really like about them. They just make it look easy.
     
  23. Casey2

    Casey2 Member

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    I like the Davis/Brubaker pairing mainly because Rockne is skating with a partner as mature as he is. I can't help feeling that the pressure of skating at the Senior level was overwhelming for McLaughlin and Mary Beth at a vunerable stage in their lives. (I understand that there were other issues in each parthnership as well.) I have always liked Brubaker as a pairs skater and wish the best for him and Davis.
     
  24. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I have rarely seen Lindsay Davis look happy, ever.
     
  25. 2sk8

    2sk8 Active Member

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    This. LOL
     
  26. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Just came from the K&C and cannot believe that the Olympic season really begins this week! :eek:

    All three USA Teams are scheduled to compete tomorrow at Ondrej Nepela Trophy! WOOHOOO!!! :respec:

    http://www.slovakskating.org/ont/2013/CAT003EN.HTM


    If Caydee's little sister is anythng like her, and all indicators prove that she is, then I wouldn't be surprised to see her & her partner capture that much coveted second Olympic spot just like Caydee did back in '10. :smokin:


    GOOOOOOOOOOOO TEAM USA!!!! :kickass:
     
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Senior B international scores so far this season:
    188.47 Denney/Coughlin (61.66 SP, 126.81 FS; Salt Lake, 2nd)
    167.27 Kayne/O'Shea (60.31 SP, 106.96 FS; Salt Lake, 3rd)
    165.91 Castelli/Shnapir (62.26 SP, 103.65 FS; Salt Lake, 4th)
    156.91 Davis/Brubaker (54.04 SP, 102.87 FS; Nebelhorn, 5th)
    130.20 Zhang/Bartholomay (50.23 SP, 79.97 FS; Salt Lake, 7th)

    Are you asking about technical elements or at which sectional the teams will compete?
    I count 12 Junior pairs and 19 Novice pairs (ETA: the new team of Juliette Erickson/Alex Brauner would make it 20) that are known to have competed so far this season: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/current-pairs-scores/
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
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  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ditto! I liked Brubaker with Mary Beth and with Keauna too. All partnerships need time to fully develop. In D/B's case there's added pressure with wanting to do well in an Olympic season, plus they are adjusting to new coaches too.

    I understand why they may have stayed with a lp that had already been choreographed, and I don't criticize that decision. However, perhaps as a partnership they may fare better with music that is more fiery or modern/ edgy. I know it's a short YAS-choreographed challenge featuring Lindsay and Rockne with choreographer, Felicia Beck, but I found the music and D/B's work together in this former YAS video challenge intriguing and promising:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF4SjCfl_tk
     
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Ondrej Nepela Trophy Pairs SP start order: http://www.slovakskating.org/ont/2013/SEG005.HTM (results will be updated after the event is over)
    Live stream is scheduled to begin in about 30 mins. - check the TV Alerts forum for the link if you don't have Kiss and Cry access.
     
  30. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    :kickass:1ST PLACE FOR DONLAN & SPEROFF AFTER THE SP!!!!:kickass:

    Emotional perfect performance to Jules Massenet "Mediation from Thais". Big split 3twist, nicely landed sbs 3toes, elegantly landed throw-3salchow, strong lifts, beautiful beautiful performance. :cheer2::40beers:

    Alas not to forget Denney & Frazier also had a nice performance with a few glitches, as well as Scimeca & Knierim.
     
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