US Pairs 2013 News and Updates Part II

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ~tapdancer~, Mar 10, 2013.

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  1. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I think they have crap programs this year. The long program in particular is a disaster-- the music doesn't go anywhere, the choreography is all one note. I'm sure Chris' injury has set them back, but she has been making her fair share of mistakes as well this year, including on the throws. There was no pressure on them last year and now there is an expectation that they should make the Olympic team. My guess is that they are feeling it and that's the biggest reason they are struggling right now. I think that second spot is wide open.
  2. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    After McLaughlin/Brubaker missed the shot at Vancouver, I'm not convinced there is a sure thing when it comes to pairs, because they were a whole lot more of a "sure thing" than any of the teams this quad.
  3. hippychick

    hippychick New Member

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    I totally agree with you there! I dont think there was anyone predicting that Mclaughlin/Brubaker wouldnt make the Olympic team. I honestly think that outside of Denney/Coughlin anything can happen. Every team seems to be having there issues. I dont think any of these teams has had two clean programs in one competition. I think only a few of these teams have skated clean sp. Denny and Counghlin, Kayne and O'Shea
    and Donlan and Speroff are the only teams that I can think of. I am not sure any team has had a mistake free long program yet.
    I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of the teams on the Olympic team being a surprise. Not sure which team it will be, but it will be exicting to watch.
  4. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I think back to 2010 when Evora/Ladwig ended up on the team. That was quite a competition. I was so excited for E/L, but heartbroken for M/B.
  5. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    D/C and Z/B have had clean longs at SA
  6. Skatechamp

    Skatechamp New Member

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    The problem there is that when one is injured it effects the training for the other. If the boy can't lift, or throw the girl can't train those elements. It is possible she lost many weeks/months of training throws/lifts depending on his limits. Just something to consider.
  7. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course. But IIRC she's also been having her own sbs jump issues. My larger point was that there was no pressure on them last year and now there is an expectation that they should make the Olympic team. That has to be difficult to navigate.
  8. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Just like you can't train lifts or throws without a partner; it is impossible to train a SBS jump without your partner beside you.

    Landing the jump on your own and landing the jump matching the timing of your partner are hugely different things.
  9. yfbg722

    yfbg722 Active Member

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    :respec: exactly! So many viewers blame the boy if a lift goes down or the girl if a throw goes wrong but the truth is, it's called "Pairs" for a reason. Every element takes two!
  10. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    ITA.

    That said, I would just like to say I'm very impressed with both Denney sisters, they were made for pairs skating, and it would be the bomb if they both made the Olympic Team! :eek: :cool: Just the possibility makes me wonder if two siblings in the "same discipline" in figure skating have ever both made the Olympic Team at the same time? The only ones I can recall that come close is the Hughes sisters, but Sarah made the Team in 2002, whereas her little sister Emily made it in 2006. :)
  11. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Are you excluding various pairs and dance teams who are siblings?
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  13. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Lol I forgot about that part of pairs skating. :lol: I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be unusual at all in pairs or dance. Just off the top of my head I recall Kitty & Peter Carruthers. :) But as regards pairs (& dance for that matter) I meant with "different" partners. Not like the Kerrs or the Shibs.

    Anyhow, I think it would be cool to see the phenomenal Denney sisters both make the Olympic Team at the same time with different partners. :cool: :D


    ETA: sorry for straying off topic a bit folks. mea culpa. :eek:
  14. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Hayes and David Jenkins in 1956, gold and bronze respectively. (David went on to win gold in 1960.)
  15. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  16. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    They both also have horrible roller skating techniques on their solo jumps.
  17. toddlj

    toddlj Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to FSU, where you can always count on a cheery positive post to be followed by a harshly negative one.
  18. Jessica

    Jessica Active Member

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    Well at least they usually land them.

    Don't you just love it?
  19. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

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    Not a cCaydee Denney fan but have to give you that one- she eeeks out those jumps almost every time. Rooting for Simon & Marissa but I fear jumps will be their undoing. Such a shame because I find their other elements are of such higher quality than D/C
  20. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Denney/Coughlin have made nice improvements this year. I really love how they eliminated her weaker lift positions and made their lifts more impressive in the process. They're not without fault, but they pretty much always skate well (oftentimes clean), have 3twist/throws that stand out among the best in the world, and will most likely be crucial to Team USA's medal chances in the team event. Pairs and Mens are the two events where people are predicting the US to give away a lot of points, but on a normal day, D/C should be able to keep us close enough to Canada's pair, which will be a top mission.

    Marissa/Simon's 4S throws so far have been quite impressive. No, she hasn't landed it cleanly in competition yet, but she seems to be able to get it on her feet with relative ease. And in this judging system, that's very much rewarded. For example at NHK, their 4S throw outscored Denney/Frazier's very well done 3Lo throw (speaking of D/F, they are coming along nicely). Because C/S now have the difficulty in throws (they're no longer reliant on the 2A throw), I would love to see them scale back a bit on their SBS jump difficulty. Just focus on one SBS triple, not two. That was working for them last season and seemed to help their confidence.They have a lot going for them (wonderful lifts), but the planned SBS jumps just seem too ambitious and are probably not worth it with all the difficulty they have elsewhere in the program. The bronze medal at NHK could have been theirs (they also lost a couple levels on spins that they normally get).

    Scimeca/Knierim haven't shown their actual abilities so far this season, but it is somewhat expected with his summer injury. Hopefully he did not come back too soon, is feeling healthy, and can regain his confidence in jumping. They had level 3s on SBS spins and pair spin at COC, and their throws are not as consistent as they were last year, so it just seems like they need a little bit more time to get back in the swing of things and get more mileage on their programs (which are a step up from last year). But when she does land a throw (like the 3F in their LP at COC), it's huge and gets great GOE, and you can see that the strong scoring potential is there. Hopefully they'll seem more like themselves their next GP.
  21. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    To be honest i wish Marissa would get a better partner. Simon seems to always screw up in some way and he just seems stiff out there on the ice.
  22. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    That is just harsh. A male pair skater trying his best. But I guess his best wasn't good enough... Maybe he should just quit and free Marissa from his screw up.
  23. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Well, Castelli and Schnapir have been skating together for 7.5 years--which is a lifetime in the context of typical US pairs longevity. So she must see some benefit in sticking with him and vice-versa. I don't see any particular issues in their skating that can't be resolved with the right coaching, choreographic, and artistic off-ice inputs from their support Team. And of course, lots of practice. And let's face it, right now just about every US pairs team has some sort of deficiency or awkwardness either technical or artistic, that needs to be worked on.
  24. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Simon is so unreliable with his solo jumps. That will always hold them back. John Z said that he knew he had to land his jumps, otherwise he would get the stare of death from Kyoko, LOL.
  25. reut

    reut Active Member

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    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  27. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Now there's an idea, scare Simon into landing his jumps. Maybe Marissa is just too sweet and needs to get herself a Stare of Death. We could refer her to Barbara Fusar-Poli for lessons! :D
  28. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

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    I kind of love that they've stayed skating together even though they've admitted that they were not the best of friends or even liked each other that much for most of their partnership and could have taken an easy out and said the height difference made the partnership unworkable. There's obviously at the very least respect there and a commitment that's been lacking in US pairs. I also don't think there's a male partner in the world (maybe setting aside superhuman V/T )who does a better job showing off his partner in lifts. If they can get the throw quad consistent and keep their gorgeous lifts, I'd work on spins a bit and go for slightly easier jump content. They should be miles ahead of D/C pCS wise. If only the judges agreed.

    Cup of Russia will be telling. If S/K are still a hot mess, C/S are looking better for the Olympics. My dream team though is C/S & S/K. Trying to get onboard with the fact that the odds are against that happening.
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I remember seeing them online 4-5 years ago and thinking that I wished Castelli would find a partner who had some of her life and strength. Obviously, she didn't listen :lol:
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I think this is a reasonable assessment, especially after Denney/Coughlin's bronze at TEB today. They scored close to their ISU personal bests (2012 Four Continents) in Paris with 184.01 total and 120.49 in FS and set a new personal best of 63.52 in the SP.

    ETA Senior international scores so far this season (after TEB):

    188.47 Denney/Coughlin (61.66 SP, 126.81 FS; Salt Lake, 2nd)
    184.01 Denney/Coughlin (63.52 SP, 120.49 FS; TEB, 3rd)
    182.43 Denney/Coughlin (62.06 SP, 120.37 FS; Skate America, 4th)
    177.11 Castelli/Shnapir (62.56 SP, 114.55 FS; Skate America, 6th)
    168.89 Castelli/Shnapir (58.60 SP, 110.29 FS; NHK Trophy, 4th)
    168.42 Zhang/Bartholomay (55.83 SP, 112.59 FS; Skate America, 7th)
    167.85 Denney/Frazier (58.67 SP, 109.18 FS; NHK Trophy, 5th)
    167.27 Kayne/O'Shea (60.31 SP, 106.96 FS; Salt Lake, 3rd)
    165.91 Castelli/Shnapir (62.26 SP, 103.65 FS; Salt Lake, 4th)
    161.72 Scimeca/Knierim (57.99 SP, 103.73 FS; Cup of China, 5th)
    160.19 Donlan/Speroff (56.63 SP, 103.56 FS; Nepela, 1st)
    158.82 Denney/Frazier (55.01 SP, 103.82 FS; Skate Canada, 5th)
    157.28 Calalang/Sidhu (51.94 SP, 105.34 FS; Coupe de Nice, 2nd)
    156.91 Davis/Brubaker (54.04 SP, 102.87 FS; Nebelhorn, 5th)
    155.52 Zhang/Bartholomay (50.33 SP, 105.19 FS; Cup of China, 6th)
    153.71 Davis/Brubaker (52.69 SP, 101.02 FS; Skate Canada, 6th)
    153.34 Scimeca/Knierim (51.17 SP, 102.17 FS; Nepela, 3rd)
    142.48 Denney/Frazier (48.71 SP, 93.77 FS; Nepela, 4th)
    141.01 Leng/LeDuc (57.95 SP, 83.06 FS; Coupe de Nice, 6th)
    130.20 Zhang/Bartholomay (50.23 SP, 79.97 FS; Salt Lake, 7th)

    International medal count: 1 Grand Prix bronze, 1 Senior B gold, 2 Senior B silvers, 2 Senior B bronzes won by 5 different teams; 1 JGP silver (Aaron/Settlage).

    Events to come next week:
    Rostelecom Cup: Davis/Brubaker, Scimeca/Knierim
    Ice Challenge, Graz, Austria (Senior B): Donlan/Speroff, Kayne/O'Shea
    U.S. Sectionals
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  31. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Re-posting what I posted over in the K&C just now (copied & pasted):



    There's so much skating I honestly cannot keep track of it all! :eek: I know I would like to see Rachael Flatt skate at Sectionals on IN, but then again I would also like to see Donlan & Speroff skate at their Sr. B competition, which I think takes place this week as well? :confused: Furthermore, there's Rostelecom Cup going on at the same time, I just cannot watch them all, especially when they're not compatible with the things I'm doing, otherwise I miss out. :( And to tell the truth I don't like to catch it later on at IN, rather I'd like to watch it live. :)

    Decisions, decisions, decisions... :slinkaway: :drama:

    PS: Denney & Coughlin were AWESOME at TEB (their lifts out of this world)! :smokin:
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    2013 Novice champs Christina Zaitsev/Ernie Utah Stevens (a.k.a. here as "Divette/Utah") have withdrawn officially from the Midwestern Sectional Junior Pairs event. :( He (@EUStevens) tweeted last night:
    Sophia Dai/Jeffery Fishman (5th in Novice at 2013 Nationals) have also WD from Mids Jr. Pairs.

    ETA:
    Re-posting the updated Sectional rosters now that the starting orders are published (competition dates are Nov. 20-23, 2013); adding Intermediate & Juvenile:

    SENIOR
    Eastern: Shaughnessy/Morgan plan to skate their programs as an exhibition.
    Midwestern: no event held
    Pacific (2): Calalang/Sidhu, Pfund/Reiss

    JUNIOR
    Eastern: no event held
    Elected not to compete if 4 or fewer, I assume: Oltmanns/Santillan (or Pacifics?), McDougal/Schatz, Fujimoto/Barsi-Rhyne (or Pacifics?)

    Midwestern (4): Madeline Aaron/Max Settlage, Kaitlin Budd/Nikita Cheban, Brianna de la Mora/Taylor Wilson, Aya Takai/Brian Johnson
    [WD: Sophia Dai/Jeffrey Fishman, Christina Zaitsev/Ernie Utah Stevens]

    Pacific (2): Elise Middleton/Anthony Evans, AnnaMarie Pearce/Jason Pacini
    Elected not to compete if 4 or fewer: Liu/Perini

    NOVICE
    Eastern (7): Darbie Burke/Griffin Schwab, Cirinia Gillett/Maximiliano Fernandez, Grace Knoop/Noah Chinault, Nicole Lee/Timothy Habeeb, Victoria LoRusso/Brandon Kozlowski, Gabriella Marvaldi/Cody Dolkiewicz, Joy Weinberg/Michael Lueck

    Midwestern (6): Hilary Asher/Luke Kirchgessner, Madeleine Gallagher/Jonathon Horton, Linde LaChance/Kenneth Anderson, Kailey Matkin/Justin Highgate-Brutman, Macy Peterson/Daniel Arsenault, Lindsay Weinstein/Jacob Simon
    [WD: Alicia Bertsch/Austin Hale]

    Pacific (9): Katie Dano/Lyle Kosinski, Juliette Erickson/Alexander Brauner, Breanna Harris/Nathan Grundhofer, Reagan King/Rique Newby-Estrella, Jessica Lee/Robert Hennings, Aditya Nandy/Ananya Nandy, Annabelle Schneider-Farris/Joel Schneider-Farris, Ai Setoyama/David Botero, Alexandria Yao/Connor Fleming

    INTERMEDIATE
    Eastern (6): Chelsea Allen/Davis Kim, Sydney Cooke/Nathaniel Dennler, Joanna Hubbart/William Hubbart, Annabel Kim/Jonathan Kim, Sabrina Piliero/Davis Tong, Maxine Weatherby/Mickey Sinthawachiwa

    Midwestern (7): Remington Bennett/Jacob Nussle, Kate Finster/Joseph Goodpaster, Cate Hawkins/Eric Hartley, Taylor HliebayJacob Schenten, Sophia Pearson/Keenan Prochnow, Jacqueline Tu/Alex Magnuson, Reaghn Yack/Kristofer Ogren

    Pacific (4): Hannah Eby/Logan Weaver, Megan Griffin/Andrew Civiello, Lynzee Moore/Matthew Rounis, Alexandria Schmainda/Matthew Scoralle

    JUVENILE
    Eastern (7): Jaclyn Bozzetti/Steven Rossi, Katrina Copeland/Tyler Copeland, Jade Esposito/Rensing Nathan, Anastasia Lestina/Benjamin McLemore, Ellie McClellan/Jim Garbutt, Carlie Quesada/Adrian Shin, Sarah Rose/Tommy-Jo Nyman

    Midwestern (7): Calista Falcone/Andrew Wagner, Katherina Frantz/Nicolas Frantz, Kristin Lyle George/Jake Pagano, Olivia Mihelick/Levon Davis, Danielle Neuberger/Kristion Major, Pelagia Pamel/Keyton Bearinger, Sammy Parks/Devin Pascoe

    Pacific (9): Carolyn Bartel/Alfred Bartel, Greta Crafoord/John Crafoord, Jasmine Fendi/Joshua Fendi, Nozomi Halberg/Ryan Waner, Ainsley Peterson/Carson Leckenby, Altice Sollazo/Paul Yeung, Megan Stenman/Albert Zeng, Cecilia Wright/William Wright, Megan Yeh/Callen Zadrozny
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  33. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    :wuzrobbed Alicia/Austin at mids! They train at my club. . . I know she's been struggling with various injuries for a while now (and has grown a few inches, which means a lot of tough adjustments!). Let's hope she can heal well and they'll come back stronger next year.
  34. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

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    Denney and Coughlin were, IMHO, undermarked in PCS at TEB.

    They can achieve the highest technical scores of the entire competition (in GP events), but they really have no chance to ever win due to PCS being relatively so low.

    I also feel their GOE is undermarked relative to the other teams. V/T earn up to 20 points per FS on GOE, while D/C can get, what? 6-10?

    It seems to be a shame. They do all the hard elements and do them well, but never have a chane to win or even come close to a world/Olympic medal.

    Why? Is is John and his poor extensions, posture and lack of visible dance training? Caydee? Both? Their coach? PolitiKs?

    I am at a loss to explain it. Ideas?
  35. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    They have strong elements which they get credit for but very little in between...
  36. flyingsit

    flyingsit Well-Known Member

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    And scratchy skating, oftentimes clunky landings on throws, poor positions in lifts and death spirals...
    They do have a spectacular twist, and John is very solid with his lift technique.
  37. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

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    I'd say that has something to do with it. Next time you watch D/C, watch their feet. They rarely get on one foot and their edges are weak. Their transitions are very poor. Most of the time I would say they're overscored on PCS.
  38. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    ^ Agree. If PCS were judged correctly, they should be getting 5.75s.
  39. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    @TarahKayne tweeted:
    Ice Challenge Senior Pairs SP is scheduled to begin tomorrow (Friday) at 18:15 in Graz (12:15 pm Eastern). Donlan/Speroff skate 3rd and Kayne/O'Shea 6th of the 6 pairs in tomorrow's SP. Link to the live stream is posted in the TV Alerts forum: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...e-stream-of-2013-Ice-Challenge-(Graz-Austria)
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    11/18 Journal entry by Scimeca/Knierim before they left for Moscow: http://figureskatersonline.com/scimeca-knierim/journal/

    Two tweeted pics by Alexa & Chris who were sightseeing in Moscow yesterday:
    ETA that the Rostelecom Cup Pairs SP is Friday 11/22 starting at 7:40 am Eastern time (Davis/Brubaker skate #2 and Scimeca/Knierim #4 in the first group).
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
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