US Pairs 2012-13 news & updates

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 4, 2012.

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  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Since the Split Pair rule only applies to the ISU Grand Prix, I'll assume you mean GP.

    How exactly did Y/R "attain a Team USA spot"? "Team USA" is only entitled to three spots (at Skate America), and Y/R haven't been assigned to any of them yet (there's a TBA open, based on how the summer goes). The rest of the spots are earned by specific skaters: every one of the Pairs entitled to one or two has been assigned to one or two, and the pairs that haven't been assigned, haven't earned them.

    There are Pairs from other countries that higher on the SB list than US pairs on the list. Why do you assume that if Y/R hadn't gotten a Split Couple spot that the spot would have gone to another US team?

    While I don't expect Y/R to be another D/C, who got their second GP spot as a Split Couple last year, Y/R have been together for a short time, and by November, a little more than three months away, they'll have been together twice as long as they have now. US Nationals are another two months away. While I don't expect them to be competitive this year, or even get a GP minimum at CoC, they've earned the right to be there.
  2. oldskoolsk8tr

    oldskoolsk8tr New Member

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    Touche!

    Not trying to assume and meant representing USA...obviously. Of course they should take advantage of everything they can my point was more that they if not feeling ready should take their time to often we pressure teams and that was the point although not as elequint as the way you stated it.

    I do think they can be competitive this year that is a little negative. I think and hope all the teams can as it makes for better competition...of course you want development and improvement and to see a team get better and better every year...

    I mentioned at the end of that statement that I could be off...I am like a weebles wobble...and just saying that lets you know how old I am...I admit I being from 6.0 system get confused on all the rule changes and points..assignments etc.....that said..

    they were just thoughts....but I appreciate the clarity anyway. I hope all the teams continue to develop well as I stated before FS can be hard that is why we saw only doubles from M/B at their last competition debut...so my guess is if all the Senior teams did just doubles they would all skate clean but sometimes you gotta go for it and it looks like as I said in my other post they did that....you build from there.

    You have to admit though the assignments coming out just based on points and split rule adds an interesting turn this year...
    Also a lot of teams had the points for that spot and one in-particular was a team that lost that spot they had earned that YEAR through skating... were slotted for a spot they earned and lost it because of this new longer split rule....it happens its the sport but it still sucks and then adds a lot of pressure on a team taking a spot based on past...but we are seeing a lot of comebacks etc it happens and is part of the sport...look at Weir and others coming back...so will be interesting before Olympics!!


    I still hope all do great and improve from here as again I am sure it will be a very interesting and exciting season ahead!

    ...and so it goes...
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    What do you mean "had the points"? What do you mean "earned"?

    Even though the GP rules have changed over the last decade about who earns what spots, every skater/team who has earned a spot by those rules and whose Federation has submitted their names has received at least the minimum number of spots guaranteed by the rules and very often more. Every year, even as the ISU reduced the number of spots in each event, the number of spots has been greater than the number of guaranteed spots + host spots + Split Couples/Comeback Skaters, and skaters from the Top 75 list -- who earn nothing except the possibility of replacing skaters who withdraw -- have been chosen in the initial selection. Who are you talking about?

    The Split Couple rule has been in effect for two seasons. Last season, there were as many teams that were guaranteed one and got second non-host spots (S/H in CAN, S/K in FRA) as non-host Split Couple spots (D/C and D/W in FRA). Why do you think your couple "lost" a spot to a Split Couple rather than S/H or S/K? Or to Y/J in CAN, S/S in CH, or P/S in JPN, all of whom made the minimum score, but did not "earn" -- i.e., guaranteed by the GP selection rules -- a spot?
  4. crankyintheAM

    crankyintheAM New Member

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    It would be "tragic" for Caitlin if she did as bad as they did in the SP at Skate Detroit at their GP.

    The low score specially compared with S/K, who are quite a new pair too, was shocking for me, because I think CY is a gorgeous skater AND I obviously spent too much time chatting/tweeting with Caitlin ubers :lol: I caught their maybe unrealistic "Y/R will kick D/C at Nats" bug.

    I hope they will actually get much stronger and challenge the top pairs next January. The more pairs :kickass: the better.

    I don't have any relatives or friends who are skaters, or coaches or judges or costume designers :lol: Sadly, no one in my family or my close group of friends even watch skating. :(


    36 posts? How did that happen? :confused: A sign that I'm talking too much.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  5. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    You said it was 'tragic' she took the spot not skated as bad...why? If they do bad...so be it, she has every right to go. Do you see the protocol from SD? I haven't so I can't comment on how they performed.

    S/K also got a score higher than Kavaguti and Smirnov received last year at NHK so are S/K a better team now? You may be either looking to much into one local competition or to much into one score, maybe both. Either way it is waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to early in the season to be bashing any teams. At this rate you are going to be real tired by the GPF. Give all the skaters a break.
  6. oldskoolsk8tr

    oldskoolsk8tr New Member

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    kwanfan1818


    Skating is sometimes not fair and often there have been teams (never said all are guaranteed a spot ever) that could have had a US spot that were maybe passed over for someone else. It happens and it is the nature of the sport...or many sports for that matter not just pairs.

    Has it never happened to you?? You have never worked hard had your parents sacrifice and your whole family and through blood sweat and tears that year the outcome is for another.?? It happens in the words of my grandmother it is "character building tea" necessary for survival...

    I also said that Y/R deserved everything that they can qualify for and someone else mentioned that if it were my own family...I would want them to get everything they could benefit from in life and they are right about that. (not sure if that was you)

    I think at Liberty the Teams showed much promise Z/B were awesome they also skated very well at Nats in 2012...are they doing an international? They should be! S/K who are newer than Y/R and also a split team they both were 7th and 10th at Nats with other partners I think? and both placed above V/B...I am not sure on that though...and there were a few others from 2012 Senior and Junior that did well and aren't on Internationals this year...

    ...I know everyone can't go. Everyone in their own time...building and growth it is very individual(team) ... we have so many young teams even in Juniors that show so much promise....Look at B/T who got out there with her competing Senior Pairs after just passing the tests?


    Your points are noted....and respected I do not mean to offend or cause such seemingly well passionate responses...but I do not necessarily agree and that should be ok.......:lol:
  7. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but you seem to have missed the point that GP spots, except at Skate America, are not distibuted by country. Y/R have not recieved a USA spot at all for anything at this point so they can't have taken a USA spot.
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    You wrote: "Also a lot of teams had the points for that spot and one in-particular was a team that lost that spot they had earned that YEAR through skating... were slotted for a spot they earned and lost it because of this new longer split rule."

    I'm asking how they "earned" it. Based on what criteria?
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Based on what I saw at Liberty, Felicia Zhang/Nate Bartholomay are definitely ready for and worthy of their first Senior B international assignment together - hope they get one!

    Yes, and based on what I saw of their SP on the Broadmoor Open webcast in June, Scimeca/Knierim are also looking good for a Senior B assignment as long as they perform well enough in their FS debut today at Skate Detroit.

    Who besides Duarte/Grafton who have aged out/moved up to Senior? D/G weren't at their best at Liberty and the U.S. JGP pairs assignments haven't been announced yet (should be next week), but at least 3 teams will be at the Lake Placid JGP -- see Rochelle's post about the JGP pair candidates here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3630901#post3630901
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  10. crankyintheAM

    crankyintheAM New Member

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    I was comparing scores from the same local competition, wasn't I?

    I had no intention of bashing anyone, and I don't think I "bash" anyone, but we may have different opinions of what constitutes "bashing". I did mock Caitlin's silly, and hopefully joking, comment about Josh's looks.

    Give skaters a break? I'm not talking to the skaters here AFAIK, nor did I say anything offensive, but if you are Caitlin and felt offended, then I'm sorry, but you shouldn't take comments that are mere speculation and passing time, and in no way personal, too seriously. Again, if you are Caitlin, I think you are the most graceful and elegant of all the American ladies skating Pairs and I really wish you to do well.

    I was just commenting on a forum, really. Maybe I will put a :D after every other word so you don't worry about me being too serious or getting tired (very nice of you, by the way :) ).

    Sorry to everyone else for taking up space with kinda off topic replies. It won't happen again. Now FSU is accusing me of "hacking Evan's twitter" :lol: I love it!
  11. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    I think that she is going to be a favorite here on FSU. I spoke with her at Nationals, and she is a spitfire-- she wants to win, and she is willing to put the work in. I am excited about this pairing.
  12. Sit_spin

    Sit_spin New Member

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    Wait - what comment?
  13. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    IIRC, she said something about them both being blonde and blue eyed, so they looked good together.

    I don't see what's so wrong about that, but to each their own.
  14. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    What happened to Knierim's last partner, Andrea Poapst? She was a star.
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Andrea Poapst is skating in Los Angeles (with Peter Oppegard) and is still looking for a partner, last I heard. I really hope she can find someone worthy of her talents.

    Skate Detroit Senior Pairs FS (5 teams competed):
    Moore-Towers/Moscovitch (CAN) 116.67, H. Denney/Frazier 99.90, Scimeca/Knierim 98.19, Purdy/Marinaro (CAN) 92.66, Baga/Toth 82.74 [Yankowskas/Reagan WD].
  16. oldskoolsk8tr

    oldskoolsk8tr New Member

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    I stated this earlier in the thread but she gave knierm an ultimatum to move to LA away from the Springs and that training center or else.... He is in school full-time and working to pay for skating according to bios I've read... ....and has always trained with Delilah .... SO she left the springs without him...he had no partner..then Scimeca moved there and they started training but knierm had a hernia procedure so it delayed training in the beginning...so this S/K team has more training to do and he is healed but it put them a little behind... I guess it was meant to be because I love the S/K team and hope popst(sp,,,,these names!:) finds a partner as well.....


    I agree though that Poapt is a beautiful skater like caitlyn y.....in fact does anyone know why Y/R withdrew from FS? is there an injury....I hope everything is ok?
  17. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    They never planned to skate it.
  18. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    Then why did they enter?

    Bottom Line: Many of these posts are reactive and yes a little uneducated on what actually happens when the grand Prix competitions are awarded- However- clearly there are teams that have been training this Summer and teams that have been coasting.

    You can't tell me that skaters as experienced as Yankowskis and Reagan can't pull their sh*t together and skate two programs that at least show the judges the direction they are taking artistically when skaters such as S/K who are also brand new together are pulling pretty strong scores in both events.

    IMO you are either hungry for success or you aren't. It seems very clear to me who will be ready to compete Internationally and represent the US and frankly who isn't .

    Remember all Grand Prix skaters are obligated to skate a short and a long in altitude during Champs Camp in a couple of weeks....
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  19. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    A star without a consistent triple jump
  20. oldskoolsk8tr

    oldskoolsk8tr New Member

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    It was NOT a combined event. They had to enter both events separately. SO if not planned to skate should not have entered I suppose....oh well NO team skates a super amazing long....right now it takes a few months to train those and everyone understands that so it would have been nice just to even see a program like what M/B skated all doubles given a look at the direction they were going...a little disappointing...but love where some of the other longs are going with the other senior and junior teams!
    :D
  21. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    So? Perhaps they entered because they wanted to have the option. But I can confirm that they didn't intend to skate it as of three weeks ago.
  22. madm

    madm Active Member

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    She also has citizenship issues for anyone wanting to aim for Olympics because she is a Canadian citizen from Toronto.
  23. oldskoolsk8tr

    oldskoolsk8tr New Member

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    True and options are good...it's their choice everyone has their reasons. At Champs Camp everyone has to skate their programs both short and long regardless...is that correct? SO if that is true then will be fun to hopefully hear about it then....
  24. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they do. And they plan it then.
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  26. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link Sylvia. After watching some of the clips from the summer competitions I am excited about the prospects of US Pairs. Maybe our medal drought at Worlds will be broken in the next few years!
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes some exciting U.S. pairings. Very nice sp from Scimeca/ Knierim. I'm eager to see more from them!

    I have to agree tho' with Peter Carruthers re the broken leg sit spin used in choreo to classical music: "It doesn't quite suit." I believe Peter made that comment or words to that effect at U.S. Nats re the same sit spin performed by Chris and his former partner.
  28. oldskoolsk8tr

    oldskoolsk8tr New Member

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    This could be considered off topic from the above quote but can we add...very short spiral sections the new footwork that takes forever...and some other items in the new scoring system that affect:cool: the singles and dance too...it has been an interesting change and can't wait for the vocals to hit pairs and singles that will be interesting!

    That said ...I am eager to see more too!!
  29. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Wow. the 3twist looked effortless, like that could turn into a big element for them, and the Throw 3z/3f (don't know what it was) was nice and big. I also like that they are going for SBS 3sals. They seem to be comfortable with one another on the ice. I could become a fan ... :)
  30. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    I was impressed the spring in the throw and their unison. I can't wait to see them further along in the season.
  31. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  32. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    They definitely need a lot of polishing. Postures, lines, unison and basics in general need work. The performance was a little tepid as well.

    Having said that, the triple twist and the throw 3flip were huge! And considering how short they have been skating together, to deliver all those technical elements in a pretty much clean program is extremely impressive.

    A very promising new team!
  33. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Any more vids from Skate Detroit available?


    ETA:
    Granted early yet and a bit presumptious to overly criticize, but of returning U.S. pairs, I like Marley/Brubaker and Donlan/Speroff. However D/S must further develop and strengthen their tech skills/ jumps. M/B are still working on improving twist, lifts (Mary Beth's air positions on lifts are not great) and they need to develop better unison on sbs spins and consistency on their sbs jumps, as well as better chemistry (as Mary Beth matures and continues to refine her lines).

    Denney/Coughlin have the edge in consistent tech/ jumping skills, sway with U.S. judges, bubbly enthusiasm and kinetic energy (although they lack aesthetically pleasing lines and Caydee needs to improve her air positions on lifts) -- I also think D/C need to find their own unique on-ice identity in their use of music and choreo, especially because they are not in the mode of classical pairs skaters, so perhaps their coach should stop trying to make that shoe fit and focus more on helping them stake out their own territory.

    Are Denney/Frazier continuing as juniors for now?

    Of the new U.S. senior pairings, from what I've seen so far, I favor Davis/Ladwig and Scimeca/Knierim. I was initially excited about Yankowskas/Reagan, but they may need more time to work on strengthening their skills and timing as a team. It seems to have adversely affected Caitlin in being out of action for a year (even tho' she surely was working out to keep in shape -- it still is not a replacement for competing with a partner). Y/R are a striking pair (looks wise) on the ice and I wish them well.

    I was also excited about the Baga/Toth pairing, but I am generally unfamiliar with the skating of both previous to their pairing. What I have seen of both (Baga as a singles skater and Toth with his previous partner Zhang), B/T seem to have good potential, but it may take time for their partnership to develop, especially since Baga is new to pairs skating.

    I am interested in seeing/ hearing more about LeDuc and his new partner.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  34. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Scimeca/Knierim do something in the throw (lutz?) I've seen some other pairs do -- he puts his hands on her hips before the throw, and she then puts hers down on top of his. Why? It seems like it would be an awkward position for initiating rotation.
  35. flyingsit

    flyingsit Well-Known Member

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    It can help the girl anchor and center herself, and also she can communicate through pressure on his hands exactly when she's ready; the throw should follow her natural timing.
    barbk and (deleted member) like this.
  36. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ ITA, and thanks.


    I first noticed this being done by Savchenko/Szolkowy (although other pairs might have been doing it before them, e.g., Soviet pairs). There are a lot of interesting stylistic/ and technique-related moves S/S have fashioned, that other teams seem to incorporate. I believe Aliona was the first pairs lady to include a variety of foot-hold positions and odd-angle shifts in body and leg movements in overhead lifts (not that everyone likes such hand holds, leg and body angles, but it suits her movement style and works under IJS). Also the spirals that Robin and Aliona do are interesting and impactful, plus the way they do hand holds in a rotational way while speedily moving across the ice. Also, prior to their throws, Aliona is slightly lifted up by Robin (and she moves her legs up and down), then he places her back on the ice before the throw -- this pre-jump way of moving seems to also be a timing mechanism before the throw (I believe a straight-legged version of this was first done by Soviet pairs).
  37. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I forgot about Castelli/Schnapir (reminded by a thread asking about Marissa, which should probably have been posted in this thread). I was also impressed by them at Nationals in January. They should be among the top contenders at Nats again.
  38. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    And Zhang/Bartholomay that won Liberty overall by 30 points?

    Actually there is a great amount of talent in US pairs now.
  39. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ...as long as they consistently show that talent when it counts - at international competitions during the season, get some cred with international judges, and move on up ;)
  40. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    I couldn't agree more!
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