Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 4, 2012.
Michael Johnson is listed on partner search. He should still be jr eligible this year
Lianna Thomas is listed on IPS she skated with David Botero in Novice pairs they came in 10th at US Nationals and were with Jenni Meno and Todd Sand WOW so many pairs splitting up so crazy
Eh, not really so crazy. It'd be crazy if US Pairs weren't splitting up between now and April.
Seems like lately the going rate is at least 33% of the teams will split/retire/injure-out-a-season... more like 50% lately.
In the Novice through Senior levels… only 18 pairs out of the 36 in 2012 returned to the 2013 U.S. National Championships.
It'll be crazy when 75% or more of the teams return the next season. (Hey, we can dream, right?).
I've been meaning to ask everyone for their opinion on this -
Do you think that C/S and even S/K will eventually pass D/C? If so, could it be by next season?
I personally think that unless D/C take a completely different approach towards their packaging and PCS, they are a pair that won't go much beyond 180 pt. totals. I don't think Dalilah will do that for them. Whereas C/S and S/K have (will have) bigger score potential. C/S are faster and more musical. They are also getting biggish marks for relatively simpler jumping passes and throw jumps. S/K are not necessarily musical right now, but the way they move across the ice show that they have big potential (oops, just jinxed them!)
We were talking about that at Nationals, while sitting in the stands that we thought that Denney & Coughlin would have trouble staying ahead of a couple of teams in the coming seasons, most likely their training mates Scimeca & Knierim. I don't know if C&S and S&K will pass them next season but its not out of the question.
I think that Denney/Coughlin are not given enough credit for competing well and consistently under pressure so far in their 1.5 seasons together. I'm glad Castelli/Shnapir, Scimeca/Knierim, and Zhang/Bartholomay are all getting Four Continents experience this week - only C/S has been to 4CC before and that was back in 2010 when they placed 10th.
I think S/K will eventually pass C/S and D/C (if those two teams stick around after Sochi). S/K have so much potential for being only in their first season together. C/S are quite good but they still kind of look awkward together, plus making silly errors like Simon's error on the side-by-side spins in the FS at Nats.
U.S. usually only makes it up to a top 5 finish, and feels good to get that. I feel better about the potential of teams coming up now.
Did someone withdraw from Challenge Cup? I just saw that Leng/LeDuc will be going, and I'm wondering if the person who passed it on got that right.
The Challenge Cup roster was updated today (Feb. 5) and Leng/LeDuc are listed as "Accepted" now (L/L and the POL pair both were listed as substitutes yesterday and their status was changed today). However, the Team USA entries are not considered official until they are listed on USFS' International Assignments page, and Challenge Cup has not been added there yet.
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels that way. The massive height gap seems awkward to me (and it's distracting).
This is coming from someone who generally loves pairs teams with a fairly big height gap.
They're a good pairs team, but I just can't seem to get into their skating.
They definitely deserve credit for their consistency. I just think though that they have hit a ceiling and won't go above that (and possibly get passed) unless they repackage
IMO D/C are the most consistent team in the world. Sadly, that means we know where their ceiling is (No way they can get higher than 6th at Worlds). Unless they somehow completely restyle their PCS or add some new tricks, they're stuck where they are.
Yeah, they are the most consistent team in the world. Maybe if they keep going after Sochi, they'll move up higher in the world due to others' retirements. I still think S/K will eventually pass them in their own country though, I'm just not sure exactly when. That is of course contingent on S/K staying together, and it's US Pairs so that's not a guarantee..
S/K are dating. Not sure if that makes it more or less likely for them to stay together.
Yeah, I think this makes them very unlikely to stay together long-term.
Yeah but ice is slippery and stuff like that can happen. The key is in being able to get back on track and stick the rest of your program, which C/S did. Plus C/S currently have the most longevity together as a U.S. team which is important. (Anyways, Simon has a great sense of humor about what happened and he and Marissa are probably learning from it and moving forward). I think C/S have a great mindset and I like them a lot. All of these teams are young and the sky is the limit.
All of the U.S. teams still have a lot to work on. In fact, even veterans must never stop improving. I think Savchenko/ Szolkowy and also Davis/ White in ice dance are examples of how great established teams continue to raise the bar and challenge themselves to get better.
ITA that S/K have a lovely look together on the ice. It probably doesn't hurt that they are a couple off-ice, re how quickly they have melded.* They too had mistakes (not in fp but in their sp) and still received strong scores from the judges, so it was nice to see them do a better job in the fp.
Kudos to U.S. pairs!
* As I post this, I see others are speculating that because they're dating that S/K might have problems long-term. Why stress the negative? So far, they seem to have a great relationship on and off the ice. I wish them well.
I think this is interesting because D/C were dating and now they are not but still together? hmm...and there are many many examples of successful teams that have dated, broken up. married, divorced and some in relationships where they had children...especially championship levels and athletes this age... why? I think that is how Meno and Sand got together...they were dating and wanted to skate pairs together and that seemed to turn out ok...although you can choose your skating partner sometimes you can't choose who you fall in love with...why again? I think it is because the team is successful and it is their profession...personal and professional. Is it easy? I am guessing not. If I skated pairs with my husband we may be divorced...or certainly I would not want to have a sharp blade nearby at certain times...but these are elite athletes...who have dedicated everything they have for this..I doubt that if a relationship did not work it would affect anything if the team is successful if it was a team that never made nationals or was always last or did not work hard or had a rich family that did not sacrifice anything I believe that you may be right...but after seeing Americans', Chinese, Russians, and Canadian's go through break ups and still skate together respectful of each other you are incorrect on this one...there are NO givens for anyone.
Anyone can break-up for any reason...but hey...a success in this crazy business of Figure skating at Championship level and doing it successfully? with so much potential...well they have just as good a shot as D/C who have dated and broken up as many other successful teams have stayed together gotten married and have kids.....so hey? who knows...what will happen...do we even know if teams that are NOT dating stay together anymore than teams that are dating?? I don't think so ..I believe teams that are so invested in each other and are successful and don't end up together actually have a better chance of longterm hope..because they albeit not together??? do care deeply about a person..and are still committed professionally to their dreams.....wishing all the teams the best whether dating or not? just focus on your professional goal and enjoy your personal life...these athletes sacrifice everything...they deserve all the happiness they find! or that finds them...whichever ....so I feel good about getting behind them because I feel like there is a longterm potential...I feel that with the top three pairs from Nats...and with D/C too given they broke up and are still together...I have not felt this positive about pairs in a very long time..it feels great! and it's not even an Olympic year yet?
I seem to remember a dance team that was married I think they won the Olympics at one point..or were successful Internationally...and then the lady had an affair with another dancer and they divorced she married the other one and they still stayed together??? I just think the dreams and focus on success and the bigger picture and respect come into play but man that was crazy!! Then of course stories like Meno and Sand (their kids are so precious) and G& G as well as others...this is an interesting section to pairs though..given they are older in Championship pairs....I just hope with the teams at Nationals that have such potential..stay together through good and bad times and care enough about each other and respect each other enough to do that it's time for US Pairs to come surging through!! and after Omaha...it may happen for the US yet.
lI think that the US has several enjoyable pair teams, each with different strengths and weaknesses, including Denney/Coughlin. Denney is still only 19 and can certainly continue to develop in artistry and presentation.
I like C/S a lot. I think they are a good, solid team who are still young and still developing. The height difference doesn't detract from them for me. I think they make it work to their advantage. Marissa seems to be a spitfire to Simon's brave and stalwart Knight. They may be adding some difficult throws to their repertoire in competition at 4CCs and Worlds.
It would be great if their SBS jumps in the LP were the 3sal and 3toe. They can do both but it's probably a level of comfort issue. Also, perhaps we may see a throw 3x from them some day.
The International Assignments page is updated now for the Challenge Cup, as of at least this morning. http://www.usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=216
U.S. is sending in pairs:
I wonder if Donlan/Speroff declined? Great to see that these three teams have a chance at an international ISU competition.
Is there a link to the current roster for The Challenge Cup?
Also, can someone please remind me on how the Senior Grand Prix assignments were given last year (haha, if we ever figured out for sure what the system *really* was, since that was pretty chaotic this past fall)? Aside from the GP host home-country picks, were the assigned-seeded picks based on ISU-World-Skater rankings? Or highest total ISU competition score from the previous season (or two seasons)? Or something else all together?
Do we expect Simpson/Blackmer, Denney/Frazier, Calalang/Sidhu, and Aaron/Settlage to remain on the Junior Grand Prix next fall or do they "age out"? Or are they likely to be in the mix for Senior Grand Prix assignments if they have the scores / world ranking to earn seeded spots?
Wondering if these either the World Junior teams of Simpson/Blackmer, Denney/Frazier, Calalang/Sidhu... or the 4 Cont team of Zhang/Bartholomay(sp?)... or The Challenge Cup teams of Baga/Toth, Kayne/O'shea, Lang/Leduc... have a shot at securing themselves a Grand Prix assignment if they score high enough in their respective competitions this Feb. All of these teams could score in the 140s (total)... possibly even 150s+... which could move them up on the Seasons Best Scores list where they would be in the mix of the teams who have received Senior Grand Prix assignments before.
So, someone please remind me how the Senior Grand Prix assignments worked (for those who were assigned, and not the GP host home country picks). (Of course, the selection criteria/process will probably change AGAIN this fall. .
I believe the point of the spring assignments usually is to give opportunities for skaters who have not competed internationally before or, at least, this season. I'm happy to see all 3 new Senior pairs get the chance to go out.
There's a competition thread in Kiss and Cry: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?86908-Challenge-Cup-2013
This is a Senior B comp. so only ISU World Standings ranking points are given (to the top 5 finishers); their scores will not count for the ISU Seasons Best scores list.
Max Settlage is fortunate to have been born on July 1st so he and Aaron have 1 more season of ISU Junior age eligibility left (2013-14), along with Denney/Frazier (if D/F elect to return to the JGP). S/B and C/S age out. There's some discussion on this topic in this Trash Can thread: US GP Skaters for 2013-14
Great - thank you for the links on where each of these areas are being discussed already. Much appreciated! Limited free time to scope out many of the threads right now...
figureit, when did Denney and Coughlin break up (their dating relationship)?
This is a great question because I don't know first hand for any of the teams? everything I know I read on blogs so maybe it is like that commercial that says "I believe it because it is on the internet"lol
From blogs I got they were dating and then not dating but I am not sure I ever read an article that stated they were dating in the first place...there is a forum here about pairs of age dating and not..and other blogs that talk about it. IN fact unless there is an article supported by authentic sources who knows if it is true for any of the teams?? and whether it matters at all? I just thought it was an interesting topic and that it really shouldn't matter I guess that was my point. Does it really matter if someone is dating or not dating?
I am just excited about the depth of pairs in the US as normally it is the discipline I pay the least attention to and I was really surprised after watching Nationals on IN and You Tube...
I think though out of all the teams D/C have great chemistry but so do C/S, S/K, Z/B and many of the others too...I thought D/L had the least amount of chemistry and they have already broken up. SO I guess you never know...sorry if I assumed about someone due to a blog....just because it is on the internet written by someone doesn't mean it is true...happy to have FSU and all the links and information they pass on...
Local Tampa Bay (Florida) article: http://www.tampabay.com/news/humani...-figure-skaters-win-gold-at-nationals/1273907
Former U.S. pair skaters that were listed as coaches of the Intermediate and/or Juvenile pair teams at Nationals included Peter Oppegard, Rocky Marval, Tracy Prussack, Jonathon Hunt, Naomi Nari Nam, Themi Leftheris, Stephanie Stiegler, Devin Matthews, Kaela Pflumm, Fred Palascak, Sheryl Franks, and Chad Brennan.
and to add...not that I am trying to be a rumor mill junkie but watch the interview with skating lesson of Caitlin Y I did read she and Josh have been dating very seriously for awhile and maybe that is getting them through the rough spell of injuries because when you are invested in your partner...their likes , dislikes, their spirit etc...you care and love them in that way hey maybe it helps get you through the storm? After watching the interview after of Tai B she seemed to be touching on the same thing the investment you have in your partner can get you through those times...
I will research this as it is so interesting to me to find out that whether you date or not whether you are together..well if you are invested in the partner and you more than get along you are "happy" and connect on a different level does that help longevity?
Or is it like what Tai said : that having the same goals are key...??Also the level of difficulty is completely different than the 80's?? not even the same sport and does that effect things? The body, emotions? etc?
Not sure but as we enter into an Olympic year and we are all waiting on pins and needles to see if teams stay together?? It would be interesting to do some research on what makes that happen...
I believe that not for years has there been this kind of depth in US Pair skating and wouldn't it be great if there was some answers and these teams stayed together reaching a type of success not seen for decades? Just a thought.
You mean D/L as in Davis/Ladwig? I don't think it's been confirmed that they broke up..
Separate names with a comma.