US Pairs 2012-13 news & updates

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 4, 2012.

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  1. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks once again, Sylvia, for providing some excellent info.! :respec:

    Wow, I didn't know Gretchen just started college, no wonder she's been off throughout the season. Brings to mind Rachael combining skating with college, not to mention Michelle Kwan, Debi Thomas, et al. It's always a big challenge, and 99% of the time the skater has to put off doing both until they can find a reasonable balance, meaning only taking a course or two, or waiting until the summer, or even waiting until their amateur skating career is over (e.g. Sasha Cohen).

    Lastly, I like Andrew's words, practice practice practice...
     
  2. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    Well, as someone who has stood next to him repeatedly, I do not think that he is much less than 5'9". I am 5'10", and I never thought of him as particularly short. We are pretty close to eye level.
     
  3. madm

    madm Active Member

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    My daughter and her partner (5'8") trained next to Rockne for many years. Rockne was 1" taller than my daughter's partner. I hope people will stop arguing about this as it is pretty petty. The point is that he needs a petite partner no taller than 5'1".
     
  4. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    Thank goodness they're healthy again. I hope they skate 2 great programs in Omaha! :cheer2:

    I love this quote by Gretchen about ballet:
     
  5. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Yup. He has lifts in his skates, which give him about an inch. Part of the discrepancy (5'8 or 5'9) stems from the fact that his listed height in his bio has been both at various points in time. Way back when, maybe when he was a Jr, his height was listed even taller! It seems you get to write whatever you want in these bios.


    And that's neat that Gretchen loves ballet, it definitely shows in her skating!
     
  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    This new article includes quotes from Coach Bobby Martin on Castelli/Shnapir and Donlan/Speroff, plus a bit about Baga/Toth at the end: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130115&content_id=40968792&vkey=ice_news
    Excerpt:
     
  7. icelover

    icelover New Member

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    I totally agree. Rockne is tall enough. And he's great. He just needs a petite, strong partner.
     
  8. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    He just needs a partner, period, too strong to be sidelined.
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  10. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    USFS will give them the go-ahead for Worlds, naturally, but I just question the wisdom of rushing this recovery. Were this the Olympics it might be understandable, but just for the Worlds in the year before the Olympics, why risk it? Why put their future at risk?
     
  11. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    There is always some risk, but I would imagine the situation is not overwhelmingly risky or they wouldn't bother this year- I think without specific medical information on John's exact injury and recovery prognosis, we as fans can't properly assess whether the "risk" of competing in March is unwise or worth it. I don't know if its safe to just assume his injury is exactly the same as Alissa's or other skaters in the past. You might be right though- we shall see!
     
  12. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Haven't we learned anything from Shabalin's carreer??
     
  13. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    haribobo is right. We don't know the seriousness of his injury. If his doctors and physical therapists say he can be ready for Worlds', I say let them go. I trust they know what they are doing. It is quite possible that it was a minor tear and no where near as serious as Alissa's injury.
     
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes injuries are individual, and we don't know the specifics -- neither are we medical professionals. I'm sure USFS is anxious to have their two strongest pairs teams competing at Worlds. At this point, C/S have won bronze at NHK and are looking very strong, and D/C won three international medals this season (two bronze on the GP circuit). So, if John is indeed deemed healthy enough to go to Worlds and C/S win Nationals, these teams surely would make a strong pairs contingent for the U.S.

    Obviously, the questions will be is John fully healed and do D/C have enough time to train adequately to be at full strength at Worlds? It would be an unfortunate setback should John not be fully healed and ready to perform at full strength.

    Also, I would feel sorry for the pairs team that come in second at Nationals missing an opportunity to go to Worlds. But, I guess that's life and figure skating.
     
  15. Spiralgraph

    Spiralgraph Active Member

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    In my opinion, D/C, after John is healed, should have a test skate watched by a judge or two, to verify that they are healthy. I keep remembering in the past when pairs (Meno & Sand) were given a bye when they weren't ready to compete.
     
  16. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Only John is going to know if he's healthy enough to skate not a judge. He knows if he goes back to soon he can do irreparable damage.
     
  17. madm

    madm Active Member

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    D/C are monitored often by Mitch Moyer of USFS in Colorado Springs. I'm sure he will be invited to watch them skate once John is back and believes he is performance-ready. USFS is only a couple of miles away from World Arena so it's easy to do.
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    IF D/C are provisionally selected for Worlds, they will most likely have to perform their programs for a USFS-approved monitoring panel to determine their competition readiness.
     
  19. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, ever since I read about the petition by D/C this morning I've had (-) thoughts. :( Not one positive at all. Just kept thinking about all those injured skaters that thought they could do it, but in the end could not. The will is there of course, but the body is not. Michelle thought she could do it in 2006, so did Rachael in 2011, not to mention Alissa in 2012, and the list goes on...

    But I don't blame the skater at all, every athlete worth his/her wherewithal must believe they can do it (that's what makes them so successful at what they do), no, rather I blame the USFS for allowing them to skate in the first place. Hopefully, the time, the USFS will put a stop to it before it even begins. But alas they never did so in the past so I don't expect much from them this time either, just another sad case of history repeating itself, never learning their lesson. *sigh*

    My $0.00 worth of advice would be to tell D/C to take the rest of the season off, heal 200% and properly, and count their blessings it didn't happen next season. They're still America's #1 Pair Team and rightfully so! :respec: They just need to stay the course, don't get ahead of themselves, and let nature do its job. :)

    As for Alexa & Chris, this is truly their lucky break/season, which if they continue doing what they're doing could lead to their first Worlds, all signs are pointing to it, so just sit back and enjoy the lucky ride. :cool:

    That said, ALL BETS ARE OFF FOR NEXT SEASON! :eek: With D/C back & healthy & raring to go, along with a rejuvenated Rockne Brubaker and new partner, as well as a rising C/S, and who knows who else (e.g. Caitlin & Josh), it will be a dogfight to make the Olympic Team! :hat1:
     
  20. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    I'm confused by your statement that U.S. Figure Skating "never put a stop" and "another sad case of history repeating itself, [U.S. Figure Skating] never learning their lesson." To the best of my recollection, over the past [number that is slightly less than John Nicks' age] of years, the only time that I can recall U.S. Figure Skating sanctioning a clearly injured athlete competing was Kwan in 2006. Flatt's injury was diagnosed but not revealed to U.S. Figure Skating prior to 2011 Worlds; Czisny had no pain or diagnosis prior to 2012 Worlds. You mention "and the list goes on," but I can't refute any additional examples because I can't think of any.

    Aside from that - I am uncertain what benefit Denney and Coughlin will gain from competing at 2013 Worlds, but the potential downsides are numerous. There is little possibility that the U.S. could qualify three pairs for Sochi (although the third team could conceivably be training mates of D/C) regardless of who competes in London and it's equally unlikely that the U.S. would qualify only a single pair. Placement at Worlds in a pre-Olympic year can have political implications internationally (not so muchly domestically unless a team wins or fails to make the short program cut): an 15th place finish at Worlds could be more damaging to D&C's Olympic placement than missing Worlds with an injury. And of course, there's the injury itself and ensuring that it's fully rehabbed. Of course, Coughlin and his medical team are the only ones who know the answer to that, but I do hope that Sappenfield and D/C are making this decision for the right reasons and that the long-term outcome is not the opposite of their rationale for trying to compete at Worlds.

    What Sylvia said - and it won't just be Moyer or a few judges from down the street.
     
  21. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    To be more specific, I'm talking about "monitoring", 5Ali3, specifically in the cases of Rachael & Alissa. Rach sustained her injury prior to the GPF that year, and Alissa as well IIRC. They were already injured, but it was low key, hush hush. Still, I'm sure the USFSA has ears & eyes everywhere and knew way more than the average skating fan and public. The backlash resulted in a fine for Rachael after all. As for Alissa, her team said they knew nothing prior, yet she skated atrociously at that B event prior to Worlds, as well as Worlds itself, then only later on during the summer did they say Alissa sustained a hip injury. I personally don't believe it, and after what they saw happened to Rachael, of course wouldn't want a repeat. And for the record, this is *my personal viewpoint*, and I'm sticking with it.

    Back to D/C, all that you say is true imho, yet I still say they are America's #1 Pair Team, and rightfully so! :respec: I saw them compete live at the 2012 Skate America, and they're even more impressive in person. John particularly blew me away, his toepoint on the sbs spins, his elegance, height, et al, now I see why he was paired with Caitlin for so long. Yet Caydee is no slouch either, my God her smile is like one of the Osmonds, she's simply dynamic in person. *insert awe emoticon*

    I honestly just don't want them to rush coming back, risking injury, and even worse lowering their reputation internationally. But as has been said previously by others only John's physician knows, yadda yadda yadda. :rolleyes: But if it is ultimately left up to the USFSA to decide, *I* hope they say "no". There's always next year, the Olympic Year, and they're head & shoulders above every other American Pair Team imho.

    That said, C/S are no slouches either, seeing them live in person at 2012 Skate America was also a revelation, they're just as dynamic as D/C! :respec:

    Anyhow, I hope whomever wins the two World spots for Pairs this year does well enough to earn two more spots for next year. :cool:

    :kickass:GOOOOOOOOOOO AMERICAN PAIRS' TEAMS!!!!!!!!!:kickass:


    ps: lol I'm getting sooooooooooooooooo E X C I T E D for Nationals next week, YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ITA.

    The US will probably not garner 3 spots for Sochi, but also won't slide down to 1 spot, regardless of who goes to London. So, the US doesn't benefit from D/C being there, and it's not like D/C on a personal level would miss a medal by staying home. I think they'd finish close to where they finished at '12 Worlds.

    It could be that D/C are making decisions w/ their heart, not their head, but only they, their coach, and Doctor can make the right decision.
     
  23. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    I agree that only the skater, his doctors/physical therapists and coach can fully gauge the situation. I disagree that Denney & Coughlin risk little by sitting out 2013 worlds. Unless a skater/team is firmly established as a "star" -- i.e., VirtueMoir, Plushenko, Kim, etc. -- they lose momentum each time they miss worlds, particularly in a pre-Olympic season. To make a statement in Sochi Denney & Coughlin need a good performance at worlds this season. IMO there were instances in the fall when they did not get the respect they deserved from judges, and non-appearance in London will not help them in that regard. Certainly, that does not mean they should risk health and limb to compete, but as Sylvia notes above they will be monitored prior to being named to the U.S. world team, if they are named to the team.
     
  24. RUKen

    RUKen Guest

    Nancy Kerrigan

    (I just thought I'd add a positive...)

    :)
     
  25. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    and Christopher Bowman in 1986.
     
  26. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is that similar to Alissa and Rachael's situations at all...Rachael was at Worlds with a stress fracture, Alissa was in need of surgery. In John's case, he will be well past the injury/surgery phase by the time Worlds is here. Only he knows his body, and only his doctors & those closest to him know the severity of the injury and the recommended timetable for return. If D/C is capable of being ready for Worlds, there's no reason not to go for it. You can't be afraid of where you will place. These opportunities to compete at Worlds only happen once a year, and I agree with the poster that it's better to compete than to just sit home and "protect your reputation". If you are healthy and ready, then go!

    And as for expecting USFS to yank skaters from Worlds every time there's an injury or suspected injury-- this is elite level sport. Everyone is sore, a lot of skaters are skating with some sort of pain from time to time. Athletes are trained to push through certain ailments, and oftentimes they can skate through things without causing further harm. You can't yank skaters just because they are hurting. Nobody knew Alissa had a torn hip and Rachael didn't tell anyone her injury, so there wasn't much USFS can do. They don't seem to want to pull skaters just for skating very poorly right before Worlds (like Alissa did). After all, everyone has disasterous outings sometimes. And again, John's case is different than these two girls because he's already past the injury phase and is into recovery. If he's ready to go, then they deserve to have the petition accepted. There's still quite a while until Worlds, so there's no reason for D/C not to ask for a petition if they think there's any chance of him being ready.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2013
  27. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think if they were out for a couple of seasons -or- they missed a season where there was a lot of movement from various teams w/ penultimate group potential, then that would be a risk. But, the way it stands now, I don't think it's a risk to sit out 1/2 of one season. They would have summer comps, international B comps and Grand Prix events to build back up.

    FTR, I think they have improved over last season. John especially is really trying hard to improve his skating skills, but I don't see them as a medal threat or even final group material and I just feel they need to be careful - if something is amiss, don't push through it.
     
  28. semogal

    semogal Well-Known Member

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    Wow, really didn't expect to hear this news. I would prefer that they sit out the remainder of this season and come back strong and healthy next year. I guess Caydee really is fearless because the thought of doing their lifts and his hip giving out is terrifying to me.
     
  29. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    Why? We don't know the severity of his injury. Since they seem able to be ready for Worlds, there's a good chance that his injury wasn't nearly as severe as Alissa's. Or as severe as it could have been.
     
  30. madm

    madm Active Member

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    John also has the advantage of working at the Olympic Training Center and having some of the finest physical therapy available to athletes. He is very determined and has a positive attitude. I think he has a good chance of healing pretty fast. At any rate, they won't make a decision about his readiness for Worlds until a couple of weeks before the competition.
     
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