Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 4, 2012.
Thanks for clearing this up !
Besides C/S (very good) throw 4 Salchow, (loud) whispers of other US teams working on the higher end pair elements: Denney/Coughlin 4 twist, a Marley/Brubaker throw 3 Axel, and a Zhang/Bartholomay throw 4 salchow. US Pairs must see the obvious need for added Technical fireworks...
I'm glad to see they're upping the ante technically, but I wish some teams would work more on basic skating. (Not to say that they aren't working now, but...)
I agree. The US teams have never been far behind in technical scores, it is the component scores that hurt them internationally. Stoking, lift positions, line, extension and posture are all things the US team should be focusing more attention on. Not that is it isn't commendable that they are upping the ante technically, but improvement on the component side is what the majority of US teams need and quite possibly would reap more points without more risk.
D/C - work on skating skills. Perhaps another SBS triple and upping the levels on non-jump elements would work
M/B - work on coming together more and let her just continue to develop as a top notch pairs lady. Perhaps get another SBS triple
C/S - try a different approach in getting him to land jumps
D/S - see above - landing SBS jumps
Problem is it's very hard to break down years of skating around with bad posture and develop good extension, whereas it might be easier to work on a harder throw jump. I can think of quite a few skaters who really tried to improve their basic skating (Tim Goebel and Scott Smith come to mind) and while they both looked quite good in practice sessions from what people said, it seems that once you put them back on the ice in a competition setting, all the previous bad habits, stiff knees and hunched shoulders came back too.
Add in the additional factor of trying to match your partner when it comes to stroking and extension and this is an even harder goal. I only skated adult pairs for about a year and sometimes fixing something led to a whole bunch of problems since the whole timing of the program and steps leading into an element would also need to change. Maybe once people stop treating pairs as a dumping ground ('she has an iffy 3toe and really scratchy crossovers, but she's short, so PAIRS it is!'), the program could start going somewhere.
That's also why when pairs skaters really do improve their basics and unision over time -like Evora and Ladwig did- they should get more recognitition and
I agree with both of you, but two things about upping the technical ante: the upside is the PCS bump given to the teams with big technical elements, especially as they near the top ranks, not to mention the GOE bump, like Sui/Han getting mega GOE on a 4TW where she landed draped over him. The downsides are that if the skaters don't get the PCS bump, they've invested a lot of training to get the bigger elements, which can hurt the timing of other elements -- for example, if they can't/won't do a 4Tw in the SP, the timing of the 3Tw might go awry -- and secondly, if the GOE is graded properly, it could suffer with the harder elements.
Assuming a pairs keep its harder triple throw and replaces the easier one with the quad, the difference in base between a 3STh (4.5) and a 4STh (8.0) is 3.5. If GOE doesn't decrease in net (bigger scale for Th4S) for the quad throw, and there's no PCS bump for it, that team would have to up their PCS by an average of .56 with the 3ThS. For a team like C/S, the quad throw could put them on the map as more than an asterisk, if the rest of their program held up.
For D/C, whose 3LzTw was L1 in both the SP and FS, the difference between a 3LzTw (5.0) and a 4LzTw (7.1) is 2.1. In the FS, they'd need to raise their PCS by .525 each to gain those points, without any PCS bump for big elements.
D/C have a big upside in raising their PCS as well, because there are only a few teams like the Zhangs that won Olympic medals in the CoP era with mediocre PCS buoyed by the big tricks. By time P/T won silver, they had vastly improved in this area.
New article on the U.S. junior champs Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier - they plan to compete junior internationally and senior nationally in the coming season and their programs were choreographed by Julie Marcotte: http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/05/second-time-a-charm-for-denney-and-frazier/
They will debut their senior level SP program at Broadmoor Open in June and both their senior programs at Skate Detroit in July.
I am surprised more Pairs aren't hiring Julie Marcotte, given how amazing her work for Gauthier's teams has been.
Marissa Castelli (she and Simon Shnapir just returned from a choreography trip to Montreal last week) tweeted that they have a "tango" free skate. Sounds like they may worked with Julie Marcotte as well?
Possibly because they can't bear to listen to tinkly piano versions of good music day-in-and-day-out
I love her choreography, but the musical arrangements she chooses are
Re-posting this Timothy LeDuc update from the U.S. Men's news thread:
This article also confirms the new Senior pair of Alexa Scimeca/Chris Knierim in Colorado Springs.
ETA 3 recently listed pair skaters on icepartnersearch.com:
Nancy Xu, age 13, 9th in Novice Pairs at 2012 US Nationals
Brian Johnson, age 16, 3rd in Intermediate Pairs at 2012 Jr Nats
Cody Dolkiewicz, age 17, 4th in Intermediate Pairs at 2012 Jr Nats
I was eating dinner at Northpark mall today between classes (stupid quarter school) and I walked by Caitlin Yankowskas and Joshua Reagan.
How was her physicality?^^^
I didn't really look at them. I saw her face and thought wow that girl looks familiar then I saw Josh and I knew who they were. She looked the same as always from the glance.
Was she wearing her Lv 4 mascara? Just wondering if that is something she wears off-ice in private as well
I saw her this year at Nationals getting coffee on the last day without her false eyelashes on. Still very pretty. She laughed at me because I had no make up and mine on, but I have those semi-permanent eyelash extensions. She should invest in those...
Lol she looked like she had full out makeup on because she looked the same as always.
So sexy Rockne is coming to Canada this year?
U.S. Senior pairs that have registered to compete at Liberty in July so far are:
Gretchen Donlan/Andrew Speroff, Felicia Zhang/Nate Bartholomay, Kylie Duarte/Colin Grafton, and Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea (new).
Also: Jessica Dubé/Sébastien Wolfe (CAN - SP only), Stacey Kemp/David King (GBR), Kloe Bautista/Tyler Harris (planning to represent PHI).
U.S. Junior pairs that have registered to compete at Liberty so far include: Brianna de la Mora/Taylor Wilson, Audrey Goldberg/Joseph Dolkiewicz, Alexandria Shaughnessy/James Morgan, Caitlin Belt/Michael Johnson, and AnnaMarie Pearce/Matej Silecky (new).
"Pair simulation @EllentonIce Friday at 1 pm. Lindsay [Davis] and I debut our short program! Come one--come all."
Kiri Baga tweeted that she passed her Novice Pairs test today.
"Five Favorite Things with Kylie Duarte and Colin Grafton": http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120504&content_id=30375610&vkey=ice_news
ETA: Colin Grafton tweeted yesterday that they have since modified the FS music to include the Slumdog Millionaire soundtrack as well.
I'm not surprized that one of there 5 fav things are not SBS trips or even SBS 2x.
Tanith Belbin spent some time last month working with Bobby Martin's pair teams in Boston - she tweeted this group photo: http://twitter.com/TanithJLB/status/200722043908521985/photo/1
The National Pairs Camp is this weekend (June 9-10) at the Canlan Ice Sports facility in Fort Wayne, Indiana: http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=516
I'm interested to know how it goes if anyone attends/is willing to share some impressions.
ETA: Belbin tweeted last week that she was "invited by USFS to the ISU Congress in Kuala Lumpur as the athlete representative" so it looks like she will not be at the Pairs camp this weekend.
Brief article about USFS' Pairs Camp this weekend: http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/n...onal-Pairs-Figure-Skating-Camp-158353335.html
Caitlin Yankowskas/Joshua Reagan can be glimpsed entering a BO edge death spiral at the end of this local news video clip about the Pairs Camp: http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/local/figure-skating-featured-in-fort-wayne
Thanks, Sylvia. Every tidbit helps sate our thirst for news in the off-season
Who was the first pair to enter the Death Spiral in the news clip - Z/B?
No. I didn't recognize them.
I expected Y/R to be at the camp as a demonstration pair for Johns/Zueva. My impression is that this camp is targeted towards less advanced, younger pairs.
ETA that Amanda Evora tweeted today that she "Loved working with kids!" at the Pairs Camp.
The male was definitely (currently pairs partner-less) Tim LeDuc... not entirely sure about the female, but she looks/dresses like Carly Powers, who trains with the same coach as Tim... so perhaps they attended together for the experience, esp. if her brother and pairs partner David was not available.
Whoa, quick trip for Tim, then, since he was testing in Iowa on the 8th!