US Pairs 2012-13 news & updates

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 4, 2012.

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  1. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Looks like D/S did get 20.30 for TES for 4CC if they can manage 3rd at Nationals. But God, they looked depressed in the Kiss and Cry. :(
     
  2. hippychick

    hippychick Member

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    Poor Donlan and Speroff, I heard that Gretchen has been sick all week. I was so hoping that they would be able to pull off a better s/p this time. Hope Gretchen gets some rest and is feeling better by Saturday.
     
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    C/S just won Ice Challenge w/ a score around 175 pts. total. He managed to stand up on his jumps (yay), but she had a weird fall on a throw jump
     
  4. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    It's looking like C/S and D/C will be the top two pairs. Everyone else is way behind.
     
  5. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    They got 114+ for a program that had way more mistakes than their SkAm free skate which earned them something like 108? But whatever, they are looking confident this year. I'm pleased for them; lesser teams would have split up by now after living through a few up and down seasons.

    Donlan/Speroff... This team will be the end of me. Sbs 2toes, Andrew turned out of his 2axel, fall on one throw and near-fall on the other... 94+. Hope they have time to regroup before Nationals. A bronze medal and a 4CC trip are still possibilities.
     
  6. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Good lord, I can't believe she's in college now. I still think of her as a tiny 11-year-old.
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Medals for U.S. pairs this weekend: Denney/Coughlin win their 2nd Grand Prix bronze at Rostelecom Cup in Moscow; Castelli/Shnapir win gold and Donlan/Speroff silver at Ice Challenge in Graz.

    Relevant excerpts from the USFS press release yesterday:
     
  8. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I managed to watch the pairs fs this AM, and have to say I'm worried about D&S, mainly because their throw jumps used to be their money jumps, they practically never missed, which made up for the underrotations/falls/doubled sbs jumps. Now that's no longer the case. :(

    I'm thinking the aforementioned is happening because they've added more difficulty (e.g. spiral) to the entrances into their throw jumps this year, thus the uncharacteristc falls/bobbles/huge step outs on their throw jumps. Which makes me question whether or not they should continue adding such difficulty? :confused: Wouldn't it be better to skate clean? Rather add difficulty to their lifts for more points, and work on Gretchen's back outside death spiral; a brand new element that she keeps getting dinged for because her back barely bends backward, thus they receive O points for it.

    I don't know, it just seems to me that they are adding too many difficult elements to their skating and it isn't paying off because they've put way too much onto their plate (figuratively speaking). Rather, working on *1* brand new element each year would be better imho. As it stands now everything is going AWOL!

    Solution: go back to doing what they know how to do, and doing it to the best of their ability, rather then trying harder difficult elements beyond their reach. Jmho.

    If not, they will be lucky to finish top 6, let alone top 10 at Nationals. However if they go back to what worked for them before I see a top 4 finish. :) They got lucky last year because of the big mistakes by Castelli & Shnapir.

    And this year ALL pairs will be lucky without the two top teams from last year ~ that is silver medalists Marley & Brubaker and bronze medalists Evora & Ladwig ~ competing at US Nationals.

    All in all, it's going to be a tough field at US Nationals (even without M&B and E&L) with brand new formidable teams and also the junior medalists moving up to seniors this year.

    May the best teams win! :cool:
     
  9. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the entrances into the throw jumps are the issues. If you watch them in practice, they are still nailing them. My opinion is that they were probably shocked to finish 4th at Nationals last year (a very deserved 4th, imo) and then over the summer Marley/Brubaker split and so did Evora/Ladwig and all of a sudden, on paper, they are the #2 pairs team in the US. There was even a quote from Gretchen during Champs camp about how people kept coming up to her and saying "you guys are #2 now." I think the pressure of that in addition to realizing that they have to get the new TES minimums in order to even be in contention for 4CC and Worlds was a lot for them. Plus, they aren't traditionally strong early season skaters; something they definitely have to work on.

    Saying they'll have trouble staying top 6 is extremely premature. Even with poor skates (like what they put out in Graz this weekend) the only pairs I can imagine finishing ahead of them are D/C, C/S, S/K and maybe Z/B.

    ETA: Are Denney/Frazier skating senior at Nats? They could potentially also finish ahead of D/S if D/S make big mistakes.
     
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    What are D/C's chances at the GPF w/ 2 bronze medals??
     
  11. Rochelle

    Rochelle Active Member

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    Possible, but not too looking likely.

    Current Grand Prix pairs standings:
    http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpspairs.htm

    Already qualified ahead of them:
    Volosozhar/Trankov = 15 + 15 = 30 pts
    Pang/Tong = 13 + 15 = 28 pts
    Denney/Coughlin = 11 + 11 = 22 pts


    Still to compete:

    TEB France field:
    Savchenko/Szolkowy = 15 + (TEB)
    Duhamel/Radford = 13 + (TEB)
    Kavaguti/Smirnov = 13 + (TEB)

    Stolbova/Klimov = 11 + (TEB)
    Berton/Hotarek = 11 + (TEB)


    NHK Japan pairs field:
    Barsoza + Larionov = 13 + (NHK)
    Moore-Towers/Moscovitch = 9 + (NHK)
    Castelli/Shnapir = 7 + (NHK)
    Maritusheva/Rogonov = 7 + (NHK)
    Della Monica/Guarise = 0 + (NHK)
    Davis/Ladwig = 0 + (NHK)
    Scimeca/Knierim = (No other GP)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Re-posting from earlier in this thread:
    I've updated the latest international scores for the U.S. Pairs here: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/scoretracker/2012-2013-pairs-scores/

    In the Mids Senior Pairs SP today, Scimeca/Knierim scored 57.09, DeeDee Leng/Timothy LeDuc 47.30, Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth 45.10 - link to detailed protocol: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2013/68388/SEGM030.html

    ETA that Felicia Zhang is injured and so Zhang/Bartholomay are skating through their elements at Easterns in order to qualify for Nationals. I've heard she should be back on the ice to train in about 2 weeks. Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea scored 43.68 in their Easterns Sr SP to "My Fair Lady" - link to detailed protocol: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2013/68387/SEGM025.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  13. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Well, too bad. It looks like there is an abundance of talent still to go
     
  14. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    So are Caitlin and Josh Reagan good to go for Nationals? The didn't lose their bye or anything when they WD from both GPs?
     
  15. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Was this actually necessary? Don't the skaters have the option of not competing when there are only 2 pairs at the event? Some pairs elect to not even show up at Sectionals because there's such a lack of competition these days. So why was injured Felicia out there marking through elements? :rolleyes:
     
  16. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Once they mark that they will compete whether or not less than 4 show up on their form, I'm pretty sure they have to skate regardless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.
     
  17. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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  18. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. So when you register for Sectionals, you have to indicate whether you will attend the competition in the event that less than 4 competitors are signed up? That makes some sense...It does help prevent last minute withdrawals. But at the same time, the pairs who commit to attending run the risk of getting injured and being "forced" out onto the ice anyway in order to maintain their Nationals berth. In that case, it's definitely safer to just sit at home. Luckily Felicia's not on crutches or anything.. That would be quite a sight watching her limp and hobble around on the slippery ice with those things. :rolleyes: This is just another example of USFS putting their silly rules before the health of their athletes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  19. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. So when you register for Sectionals, you have to indicate whether you will attend the competition in the event that less than 4 competitors are signed up? That makes some sense...It does help prevent last minute withdrawals. But at the same time, the pairs who commit to attending run the risk of getting injured and being "forced" out onto the ice anyway in order to maintain their Nationals berth. In that case, it's definitely safer to just sit at home. Luckily Felicia's not on crutches or anything.. That would be quite a sight watching her limp and hobble around on the slippery ice with those things. :rolleyes: This is just another example of USFS putting their silly rules before the health of their athletes.


    This also makes me wonder about Yankowskas/Reagan. Now that they've withdrawn from their GPs, does their chance to go to Nationals depend upon whether or not they initially agreed to compete at Sectionals in the event that 4 or fewer pairs signed up? If that's the case, hopefully they said that they would NOT attend if there are less than 4 pairs... That way, even though they're injured, they're safe because they weren't planning on going to Sectionals anyway. These rules are horrible, they really are.
     
  20. madm

    madm Active Member

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    Yes, re: the "4 or fewer rule", you have to compete if you say you will when you register for the qualifying season. If you do not show up to compete, you're out regardless of how many teams enter the event. The only exception is if you are the only team (an event with 1 competitor), and then USFS gives you the option to do an exhibition or to cancel the event. USFS and the LOCs need to plan ahead to schedule all events and to recruit judges for all of the events. They can't be continually adjusting the number of events and judge assignments every time someone is injured. Many times I have seen an injured team simply walk through the elements so that they can get through the Sectional qualifying requirement and make it to Nationals. I know it seems ridiculous, but it is the rule. Once I saw a pair team do just one element during the SP to get a small score, and they were reprimanded by the referee afterwards and told they needed to make an attempt to complete the FS program even if they did very simple elements. It is not sufficient to just stand on the ice and do nothing.
     
  21. madm

    madm Active Member

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    Forgot to mention that the reason teams skate when there are 4 or fewer teams competing is to get some mileage on their programs. It is a very long time in between the last summer competition and Nationals. Teams need to compete between Sept-Dec, either at Sectionals or at a SeniorB/GP event. Most teams elect to compete rather than save themselves from possible injury at Sectionals. Once in a while teams elect to skip Sectionals to save the money too.
     
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  22. Tammi

    Tammi Merlot lover

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    I remember years ago, there were medical byes out of qualifying rounds due to injury. I imagine those reporting injuries became too high and a decision had to be made. Either set up a complex set of rules that define an injury or simply remove the medical bye rule all together. It must have been a vote at Governing Council at some point, I just don't remember the time frame.
     
  23. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    So what have we learned about pairs following sectionals?

    Strong showing by S/K and Aaron/ Settlage

    Weak showing by baba/toth and leng/leduc

    Kayne/O'shea were okay.

    Curious turn around by calalang/sidhu from the short to the fs

    Finally showing some of their potential is oltmanns/sant.

    Surprisingly weak performance by fields/pacini, also expected a big win by pfund/reiss...

    Strong novice teams from mids. Weak ones from easterns.

    What were all your thoughts?
     
  24. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    I thought Baga/Toth looked awful. Not only did they totally abort 2 of the 3 lifts in the LP, but they also looked like the were forgetting the choreo/making it up as they went. They also looked pissed off at each other, especially leaving the ice after the LP. I'm hoping they have enough time to work on stuff before Nationals. I was so excited about their potential when they teamed up.
     
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    How can D&C be already qualified for GPF? K&S, S&K are yet to compete. B&L could move ahead of D&C. It certainly helped D&C that S&H and T&T had to withdraw, and S&S might be in only one GP (can they be allowed to skate at NHK if there is a withdrawal there?). The two Canadian pairs D&R and M-M&M could finish ahead of D&C, and even H&B may have a chance.
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    No one said they were? :confused: With Savchenko/Szolkowy's WD from TEB, Denney/Coughlin (2 bronzes, 22 points) could end up as first alternates to the GPF if the next 2 GP pair results go as expected.

    ETA:
    The Junior Pairs event at Nationals is looking pretty wide open at this point, and so it will come down, as usual, to which pairs are able to skate the cleanest. The 3 teams for Junior Worlds are likely going to be selected from Aaron/Settlage (their JGP bronze was the only medal won by a U.S. pair this fall), Calalang/Sidhu, Pfund/Reiss, Simpson/Blackmer, and Denney/Frazier (making their Senior debut at Nationals), with de la Mora/Wilson and Oltmanns/Santillan as darkhorses if they can skate their very best.

    The new team of Kaitlin Budd & Russian-born Nikita Cheban had the highest score of all the Novice pairs at Sectionals (if the one listing I found of his birthdate being July 3, 1992 is correct, then he is ISU Junior age-eligible for one more season in 2012-13), followed by the JGP pair of Christina "Divette" Zaitsev/Ernie Utah Stevens and Elise Middleton/Robert Hennings, who were 4th and 5th in Novice at 2012 Nationals, respectively. Hopefully the fill-up rule applied to the Mids 5th place team (wish the 6th place team could be included as well).

    From the USFS Rulebook (the underlined section was revised for this season):
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  27. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    To summarize, and please, correct me where I'm wrong, the bye rules are:

    • The top five skaters/teams at Nationals get a bye to Nationals the next year.
    • For singles, if a skater is assigned to two GP's, that skater gets a bye to Sectionals.
    • If a skater/team is assigned to an international competition within a certain time range of Regionals (singles) or Sectionals (singles and teams) and doesn't already have a bye, the skater/team is given a bye if they travel to and begin the international competition (by precedent).
      Is that two weeks +/- the international competition?​
    • If a skater/team without a bye checks off on the Nationals application that it won't compete at Sectionals (singles and teams) if there are less than four signed up, and less than four sign up, that skater/team has a bye to Nationals.
      Does this apply to Regionals as well, moving the skater automatically to Sectionals?
      Is it less than four or <+ four?​
    • If a skater/team without a bye checks off on the Nationals application that it will compete at Sectionals (singles and teams) if there are less than four signed up, and that team is the only one who signs up, then the skater/team has the option of skating or performing in the exhibition and receiving a bye to Nationals.

    If a skater doesn't have a bye for Regionals (singles) or Sectionals (singles and teams), the skater must compete at the qualifying competition and place high enough, or that skater can't compete at the next level.

    Do all of the number of participant rules apply to all disciplines, even if they rarely or never happen? Do these apply equally to Juniors competing at international competitions, whether they're in enrolled in Junior or Senior competitions? Do any of the Juniors get a bye to Senior Nationals based on placement at Junior Nationals, if they move up?
     
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    kwanfan1818, I'll try and answer you in the Byes thread in the Trash Can if you repost there? :)

    ETA: I've since posted the relevant bye rules from the current USFS rule book in that thread and replied to some of your questions there as well: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...tionals-2013&p=3745038&viewfull=1#post3745038

    I assume that Davis/Ladwig received a bye to Nationals because they had registered at either Pacific Coasts or Mids and elected not to compete if there were 4 or fewer teams registered at their Sectional (3 Sr. pairs competed at Mids and none at Pacifics). Even though D/L ended up receiving a second GP (Skate Canada), their original assignment (NHK) by itself did not give them a bye through Sectionals, AFAIK.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  29. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    Thought Kayne and O'Shea were better than "Okay". Such potential...and they actually land jumps! They didn't have the strangely huge Mids component marks to have a great score...hmmm guess well see in Omaha
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  30. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    Who had "strangely huge" component marks at Mids? The PCS were really quite ordinary for the most part. Looking at the protocols for Kayne/O'Shea, they had a few falls/issues, and that can definitely affect PCS somewhat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
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