UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Vash01, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    I think the difficult thing here is there is no answer. Even if he and his mother were alive to tell us what happened, how could there be a "why"? At least one that makes sense. 'Cause it doesn't make sense. He was crazy. We could find a more PC word, or a clinical diagnosis that someone made or a thought that someone had........but at the end of the day, he was nuts.

    I am not saying he wasn't troubled, or didn't come from a broken home, or might or might have not had Aspburgers or whatever. There was some portal in his brain that said this was ok.

    I bet we all have stories or circumstances. (I sure do........I was joking the other day, that my life was too nuts to even qualify for "My Life is a Lifetime Movie".) There is a brake that normal people access. Murderers, for whatever reason, override "normal" and replace it with totally self serving rationalizations for what they want to do.

    There is (IMO) bad and evil in the world. This was a broken person. And, unless there is a vaccine available to prevent it, searching for a reason is a futile action. He did it because he could. He did it because he wanted to. He did it because he was angry. He did it because he wanted to be "heard" and felt he wasn't being. And, he did it 'cause he didn't care about anything but himself. What more is there to know.

    BTW - I think the same answers apply to Susan Smith, Drove her two kids into a pond and left them to die.

    Seung-Hui Cho Virginia Tech

    Harris & Klebold Columbine

    Charles Roberts - Nichols Mine

    Lastly, IMO anyone who murders anyone (not kill, but murders) is nuts. We search so hard for answers, but it is incomprehensible. And, frankly, I would worry more if I did understand.
    CanuckSk8r and (deleted member) like this.
  2. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  3. Susan1

    Susan1 Active Member

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    I keep reading these posts. It appears that the people (adults/kids) went up to the dogs who were just sitting there, not the other way around. I am sure if someone was afraid of them, they would not make them get any closer! I think there are more people who appreciate and would be helped by the dogs than not. But nobody is forcing them to interact.

    (Coming from a dog lover who has sat down in the driveway to make a runaway dog come over, opened the passenger door at a stoplight on a busy street and called a dog to get in before she got hit and we took her to a shelter after driving around for an hour looking for someone looking for a dog, actually got out of my car once (not a busy street) to help 2 boys catch their dog who I trapped between my legs so they could get his collar back on.)
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Susan1

    Susan1 Active Member

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    Yes, I know. They give us what we want, huh? I haven't watched any coverage since Sunday afternoon, except what has passed by on the regular news. It just galls me that they would go to a neighbor of someone who has lost a precious little granddaughter to ask them................what? "How do you think the "blanks" feel about losing their granddaughter?" And to call their church? And to stand out in the dark across a busy street to point out the church. They report this on the NEWS????? Did anybody call the church of that monster creep? No they talk to teachers and people who haven't seen him for 10 years and ask their opinions of why he did it. Geez.
  5. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

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    Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

    I find myself struggling with the issue of privacy vs the public's right to know (or the emotional need to know as a means of understanding and closure, or just curiosity). On the one hand I see that especially in horrific, emotional cases like this, the only way we can move on is to gain enough understanding for closure. Collectively, we also need to know so we can understand and do something so that history doesn't repeat itself. I also see where acquaintances - sounds like several in the article - feel the need to defend someone or at least present an alternate view of the murderer and his mother.

    On the other hand, are the details of this family's life our business? The father and brother are still alive, and now the whole world knows intimate details about their family, including financial information. And perhaps worse is the information the world doesn't know but now speculates on and judges on (ie the wisdom of a parent exposing her troubled child to guns, what kind of brother doesn't see his younger brother in two years, what caused the divorce, etc). I can't even imagine what it would be like if something terrible happened in my own family, and as I struggled to understand, ran through emotions of confusion, sorrow, anger, guilt, and grieved, I read quotes from neighbours, contractors who had been in my house, former babysitters, classmates and others about me and my family. Sure it might be nice to have someone say something nice or help balance the negative stuff, but I still wouldn't want to see people talking about me publicly like that.
  6. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Since there is so little "factual" information at this point, even the authorities question "secondary" sources - never mind the media.
    It's a pity that other family members have the details of their lives open to scrutiny after these events.
    Unfortunately, it's a consequence of asking "Why"?; which is natural, under the circumstances.
  7. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!!

    I'll bet the Asperger's community's very concerned from the events of the last few days. If I was the parent of a child who was just newly diagnosed, I'd be terrified tell anyone right now just due to all of the coverage and what's that's done. Even though people *should* know better, sometimes we don't sadly.

    I've had experience w/them and believe me, they are very well trained in order to deal w/people who are scared of dogs. In fact, we were asked by our Nurse first if it was okay and if not, then that was okay too. The program was just starting at the hospital I was at, but there is nothing to lift the spirit like a furry four legged buddy whining to have her tummy rubbed. Especially at Christmas time.

    I don't know....Those computer forensic experts can sometimes produce miracles when it comes to getting something from nothing. I'd also love a purring cat, but the visit from the Collie mix that one time was just as great. :) Your last sentence though...In this day and age of instant celebrity, it's sad who will come out of the woodwork claiming to be "a friend" when in reality, they really haven't had much to do w/each other in years.

    But it's a "friend" claiming to know "something", so... :(

    There are now, but not as many because as all of us Cat People know...Cats are not trainable and we are not their Owners. We're their Staff!! ;)

    My Great Uncle and Aunt were also in a Nursing Home that had two resident cats who were nothing but two ol lovey buggies. We visited once on a really hot day and they had their really big fan on in their room. About five minutes into our visit, the one cat who was a long hair came on the run, skidded in front of the fan, then just flopped over w/her legs up w/this long sigh of "Finally!!" :D

    We nearly hit the floor laughing.

    What's that got to do w/the topic of the thread? Nothing, but thought we needed a smile along w/my answer to BlueRidge. :)
  8. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

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    Read the NY Daily News this morning over breakfast. Top story on the website was about Vicki Soto's funeral. Paul Simon was there (the article said he knows the Sotos through his sister-in-law), and he got up midway through the funeral and did an acoustic version of "The Sound of Silence" which apparently was Vicki's favorite song.
  9. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    The real problem is that there has been very little progress on the treatment of mental illness and there are very few resources. A lot of mental illnesses begin in the teen years, and by the time you realize there is a serious problem that discipline won't solve, the teen is an adult, unable to make their own decisions but legally on their own.

    Adam was apparently troubled all his life but no one knew what to do about it. I question his mother's judgment giving him access to guns but I sympathize with the isolation she must have felt dealing with him on her own. Adam was also reputed to be exceptionally smart so it is possible that he simply outwitted her in any attempt to keep guns away from him. He likely could have outwitted any contract security guards as well. The school was locked when he approached, he simply shot the door down.
  10. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  11. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    That is a really interesting article. I guess there are different schools of thought, but the psychiatrist I saw on TV doesn't think it is all about suicide and destruction for all mass shooters. He said that while there are some who intend to die in a blaze of destruction, many don't think about suicide or planning an escape because they think they are going to walk back out the door they came in or get back in the car they drove there in. And this time, they will be popular and make friends. He was introduced as the only mental health professionals outside of the law enforcement context that the Harris and Klebold families agreed to speak to. I wish I had gotten his name. Of course he said there isn't just one profile -- many do intend to commit suicide and often leave notes. Of those that don't leave notes, he believes that many think they'll be cured of their problems. This article's description of Michael Carneal sound similar to his theory: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/opinion/newman-school-shooters/index.html Carneal did not commit suicide, but he thinks some of the ones that do did not plan to do so.

    I don't think there are answers, but there is context. Maybe I am interested because we had one of these at the company where I work (at another location in another state, not in my actual office building). One of our employees killed 6 and injured 8-9 at his plant. Totally disgusting and unspeakable.
  12. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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  13. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    My cat does that in front of the A/C in the summer after she's been out in the heat. Charges in and flops right in front of it. Really hilarious.
  14. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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  15. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

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    Unless someone else posted this and I missed it --

    At 9:30 this morning there will be a national moment of silence for the shooting victims.
  16. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    Happening now. So, sad. Just an FYI, AOL is respecting a moment of silence. Cannot go to mail for a moment.
  17. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Oh my goodness, that was so moving. It lasted such a long time while the bells rang.
  18. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

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    I'm the receptionist at my place of employment, and they told me not to put any phone calls through during that time. I think all of our customers were observing the MOS too, because I didn't get any calls for about 5 minutes after 9:30. Interesting that no formal announcement was made about it - I heard about it from our billing/inventory clerk, not from the sales manager who is in charge when our president isn't here (he's home sick) - yet the whole office was quiet.
  19. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    That is true, but there was no bell for her today. I can see it both ways. Apparently, around Newtown, the tributes that are popping up mostly do not include her. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/21/memorials-gunmans-mother/1783917/ It sounds like people don't blame her for her son's actions, but they are angry that she permitted him access to guns. It is understandable.

    I for one hope she didn't know what hit her.
  20. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

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    wow, this is the first I've heard of it. it certainly wasn't observed in my workplace. Maybe it was just 9:30am EST?
  21. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    It was EST so it would have been early your time. If you heard churchbells, that was it.
  22. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's now officially Midnight here and Christmas Eve.

    I just wanted to suggest that as we're all settling down to Christmas Eve or Christmas Day Supper w/your Family, depending on which day you have your big meal on, we take a moment to stop and either say a prayer for or think of the Families of all who lost loved ones a week ago. As hard as the Funerals were, the next two days are going to be just as, if not even more so, hard to cope w/and get through for them.

    It's just a thought.
  23. puglover

    puglover Active Member

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    I just feel so terribly torn about this tragic shooting and the hard questions everyone is trying to answer after the fact. This struck very close to home for me and although I do not know the dynamics in the Lamza household and how his mother handled things - I feel like I am watching one similar, in least in some ways very close to home and I feel so powerless to do anything. My daughter is marrying a wonderful young man from a fine family. He has an older, successful, married brother, my future son-in-law is a great young man with a secure future - there is also a younger brother in the family - I will call him "Zach." Zach is 25 years old, does not do schooling, can not drive, does not work, and his only interest in life seems to be violent video games on the computer (according to my daughter), which he plays non stop all day. He does appear to have autism or Aspbergers or something and he is such a lost soul. Many members of the family have tried to get him help but his Mother shuts down every attempt. She feels he is her baby and she will hear none of anything. Consequently, his dad, brothers, and now sister-in-laws have given up and see it as a loosing battle with his mother which will only cause a rift with her if they try to mention Jason and his problems. His mom does listen to me a little - but Jason is off limites.. I can see how things things can get way out of control when he has to be so lost - no friends, nothing - just these violent video games - and this has been going on for at least 4 years.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  24. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    We trimmed the tree, with our kids , last night. When we said grace, we included the victims and families of Sandy Hook. Heart breaking for the survivors.
  25. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    puglover, were I one of the members of the immediate family, I would have a "discussion" with the mother; letting her know that they are concerned, lest something similar happen with "Zach".
  26. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    I was wrapping and happened to catch an episode of "Katie," a new this fall daytime talk show by Katie Couric. She thought she was providing a service by interviewing parents of some of the kids who died. I had to turn off the tv. How was it for you, well, you idiot, how do you think it was? One of the husbands seemed very strong and was leading the way about how he had said a nice goodbye unknowingly at the bus, the kid had hugged him, I was sobbing in the privacy of my own home, and his poor wife could barely open her mouth to answer a question. I just felt as if Katie and her crew were so very much intruding in their space. I cannot imagine how they are handling any of this, and it will go on for much longer, the rest of their lives, probably, but hopefully now that all of the funerals are over, the cameras have left.
  27. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, the cameras need to leave and let the families grieve and recover - although I doubt anyone can ever recover from losing a child. i just can't imagine what the families are going through, I can't even look at the pictures of the kids without bursting into tears.
  28. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone hear what happened out near Rochester NY? Some asshole (who did 17 years for killing his grandmother in 1980) deliberately set a house on fire, & then shot the First Responders, wounding two and killing two before killing himself. Seven homes were destroyed.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...g-to-blaze-near-rochester-n-y-shot-and-killed

    What the feck is WRONG with people? You want to off yourself, fine & good riddance in the case of this guy and Adam Lanza, the world is a much better place without them and others like them. But WHY THE FECK must you take innocent people along with you??!!
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  29. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

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    I take it the parents had the choice as to whether or not they wanted to be interviewed, though?
  30. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    It's how it's done that matters.

    Some family members have taken great comfort in being able to talk about their loved ones.
    Sharing stories can help to "validate" the life of the victim; especially, a child.

    Anderson Cooper did a very sensitive series of interviews with families who asked to share memories with/through him, to the larger community.
    These were beautifully done. Bravo, to him.

    I lost my sister many years ago under tragic circumstances.
    Sharing memories of her was an important part of the healing process.
    I wish that I had been asked about Patricia, more often.
  31. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    I know that the Sandy Hook deaths are ones that touch our hearts, especially during a season that should be joyous, but I hope that we pause to think about the others who have been impacted by gun deaths since the Sandy Hook incident. Statistics are difficult to come by, but this website is trying to record that data

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html

    We need to pray for those families, many of which will not receive any sympathy from the public/neighborhoods/communities because of the circumstances of those deaths.
  32. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

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    And prayers not only to the Sandy Hook victims and their families but to the families of those firefighters killed and injured yesterday.
  33. skipaway

    skipaway Well-Known Member

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  34. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Thank you so much for the link, what a wonderful (and very well deserved) gift for the Newtown police department.
  35. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Good to see the Brother and Sisterhood of the Blue Line come together and help out the Newtown Force today of all days. It's a Police Thing, but it's a Human one too.

    Thanks for sharing that w/us skipaway!!!
  36. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in a neighboring suburb of Rochester and was back up there visiting for Christmas. Needless to say the community was pretty devastated by this senseless tragedy. :( My sister knew one of the firefighters who was killed.
  37. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I read that story and was horrified by it. Sadly, it's not getting as much coverage in our media as the recent tragedy in CT, which deserves the coverage, of course. Firefighters risk their lives everyday to save others, and they deserve better than this kind of death. The common denominator in all these senseless killings are the assault weapons in the hands of wrong people. The killer even left a note that he enjoys killing people. That is the definition of evil, IMO. In most senseless killings, the shooter takes his own life. He is a coward who does not want to stand trial and serve a sentence. I know that on another level, he will pay for his horrible actions, but the lost lives can never be recovered. It makes up sad and angry.
  38. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Amen!
  39. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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  40. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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