Update on Rachael Flatt

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by maureenfarone, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Well, Czisny certainly learned from all this and kept her situation hush-hush...I don't think what Flatt did (or USFS' response to what she did, anyway) helped anyone in the long run. In some ways it's even a step back...folks are going to be afraid to speak up.

    If you can get away with it, all the better it seems?
  2. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Given her record, the USFS couldn't possibly have discerned whether Czisny was really injured, or just relapsing into her typical wildly inconsistent Olesya-self. I think Czisny herself suspected something was wrong, but she didn't know specifically about the torn labrum until she had an MRI after the disasterous competitions.
  3. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Czisny, unless you believe that she herself is lying, DID NOT KNOW that she was injured.

    Good luck to Rachael!
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  4. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    You can't really blame Ashley for help losing the 3rd spot at Worlds 2008. She was the youngest member of the team at 16 and shouldn't have had the pressure of keeping the 3 spots. No matter how they all skated that team wasn't keeping the 3rd spot. Meissner was on the way down and Liang was going to be lucky to finish in the top ten.
  5. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    If I dread clicking on this thread every now & then to see what new comments have been added, I can only imagine how Rachael must feel.

    But in case she is reading, I would like to tell her "what one says about others says everything about him/her".

    It's one of the principles of self-reflection: what people say about you is never about you. What people say about you is always about them and how they perceive their world.

    Case in point, I know of someone wherein one of her mantras is never to tolerate being around people that judge beauty vocally. For instance she was with an acquantace that said "i don't think she's pretty" (referring to some female they had encountered) and my friend turned to her and said "Wow, I never before noticed how ugly you were before".
  6. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    And so that's reason why she should not be competing this season? (That proverbial ship has sailed ... a long time ago ...)

    There is absolutely no good reason I can see why Rachael shouldn't be competing this season. Money? No. Taking spots away from other "more deserving" skaters? No. Pride? No. (That's Rachael's business, not anyone else's.) Pissing off haterz? Well, I think I finally found another good reason for Rachael to compete! :lol:

    O-
    (I have not been a fan of Rachael, but these lines of argument against her competing are just ridiculous and insupportable, IMHO.)
  7. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    W-O-R-D! :lol:

    O-
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Anyone who is qualified and meets the deadline can compete to qualify for Nationals.

    Flatt had to be appointed by USFS to go to Coupe de Nice. Anyone who pays their dues to USFS has the right to question why she's being appointed to a Senior B, since USFS is investing their $$$ in her. Perhaps the answer is in some kind of policy or precedent that hasn't been identified here. She did compete in Skate America last year and is 64 on the SB list. She met the 4C's/Olympics TES minimums and the Worlds TES FS minimum in Kent.
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  9. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I love Rachael's passion for skating. Hope she does well and surprises many.
  10. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

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    So tell me, who would you want to replace her? Everyone at the top 13 at senior nationals has at least one international event, as does everyone at the top 5 at junior nationals. Who's she stealing from?

    God, the vitriol in this thread is embarrassing. It's a frigging senior B and she's a former Olympian and IIRC she scored somewhere in the high fifties for her SP at a summer competition. It's not like they're appointing her to the Olympic team. I hope she wins nationals. (I don't really, but maybe then everyone would shut up.)
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  11. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    I never said people can't question Rachael's being appointed to a Senior B. But I still stand by what I said -- that there is no GOOD reason why Rachael shouldn't be competing this season.

    O-
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  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    As well as another Senior lady besides Flatt who withdrew from Nationals due to injury (V. Lam) and the 2013 U.S. National Novice Ladies champ.

    I'm impressed with USFS' international competition budget in this Olympic season! :)
  13. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Given the fact that you need a qualifying score to go to the Olympics, I can totally see why USFS would want any possible Olympic spot contender to compete for a qualifying score. And given the depth of the ladies field that does mean a lot of $$$$$$

    Even Czisny, if she's healthy and skating reasonably well, deserves a chance to go get a qualifying score.

    I hope all that $$$ is not at the expense of future envelope funding though...
  14. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    Eh, it's not that bad. You should check out the Fumie Suguri thread in the trash can.
  15. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    It was inevitable, sending the inexperienced Liang and Wagner, imo. Also, US judges were still stuck in 6.0 land and - I'm guessing - probably weren't giving the most helpful feedback to senior skaters at this point in time.

    No one ever mentions this, but the US had only preserved three spots for ladies by 0.08 in 2007. And that was only because Rochette had a nervous, shaky SP and popped her Lutz in the LP. (I don't know if her PCS were 'normal' for her, but Hughes' PCS were 3 points higher than Rochette's!!!!)
  16. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    There are only 30 women in the USFSA International Selection Pool. I think all have been offered competitions. If you know of someone who hasn't been offered a competition, please list their name.
  17. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at the historical record, shall we? And I'm just talking about the Ladies the USFSA has sent to this particular competition.

    We'll start with 2008, using this page and the links provided there.

    2008: Abigail Legg, Amy Nunn
    2009: Chelsea Morrow, Tatyana Khazakova
    2010: Karen Zhou, Christina-Maria Sperduto
    2011: None
    2012: None
    2013: Kiri Baga, Rachael Flatt

    So I would say, yes, giving non-contenders a vacation on the Côte d'Azur is pretty much the USFSA's intent in making its selections for this particular competition.

    :summer:
  18. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    To be fair....I am sure that this is not a vacation for Flatt. She is a full time college student, and IIRC, Baga is also taking classes in Boston this semester.
    There are those who will nitpick anything Flatt is involved with, and there are those who appreciate what she has brought to the sport, not only as an athlete, but as someone who contributes outside of the sport.

    Let's move on.....
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    To clarify - these 3 years cover the period when the U.S. Collegiate National top medalists were given partial funding by USFS' Collegiate program to attend this competition as a reward. They were not selected by USFS' international committee like Baga and Flatt were this year. The men and pairs selected by USFS to compete in Nice in recent years also were based on a majority vote by the international committee -- Max Aaron, Keegan Messing and Scimeca/Knierim last year, and Leng/LeDuc and Calalang/Sidhu this year.

    I already answered this earlier in the thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...achael-Flatt&p=4007962&viewfull=1#post4007962
    Excerpt: "Only Alissa Czisny of the ISP ladies who have previously competed as a senior internationally has not been assigned an international to date and I assume she may not be competition-ready yet."
  20. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Has USFS ever bypassed skaters in the International Selection Pool who weren't ill or injured?
  21. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Your knowledge, Sylvia, of all things skating truly astounds me. You are the ultimate fan of skating, the best kind. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Seriously, all the time I read your posts I discover something new, like today. Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    Nadine White
  22. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And if Mirai had gone and bombed, there'd be people still saying that "reliable Rachael" should have gotten the nod in order to earn three spots again. I do think that Mirai should have been selected over Rachael that year, but to claim that she would have automatically done better is preposterous.

    I hope Rachael does awesome at her Senior B event and feels happy with her season. She really is a great addition to the skating world, no matter what happens from here on out.
  23. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    I cannot fathom how anyone would think a full-time student from an elite school would take time out to compete in a sports competition in the midst of a compressed 10-week fall quarter for vacation purposes. Really now....

    Best of luck to Rachel, in school and on the ice!
  24. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Heads Up for Rachael Flatt Fans like myself!

    She's skating tomorrow at Regionals (thanks to Sylvia as always for supplying that magical bit of info. over in the K&C):
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_central_pacific_regionals/results.html

    Here's my reply (copied & pasted over there a little while ago):

    Thanks, Sylvia, for the info. :)

    Here's wishing them all good luck, in particular my fave Rachel Flatt!

    As an aside, I just love the month of October, the beautiful leaves turning from lush green to spectacular gold, bronze, fiery red, and every shade in between... (ps: now's the time to plant your tulips so they'll look breathtaking when Spring gets here!) :)
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  26. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Great read (thanks for finding & posting it Sylvia). :)

    Nice positive sunny article, reminiscent of Rachael, the Pollyanna of the here & now, though this one was from another generation. ;)

    http://www.jinni.com/movies/pollyanna
  27. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  28. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting the result, NadineWhite! Shame for the 2Lz and LSp2. But she got Lv4 for StS. Yay!
  29. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Saw that Rachael posted this on Facebook after a friend "liked" it:

    So much for her competing potentially causing multiple skaters to quit. :rolleyes:
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  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Because USFS pays for it and there are many other, more promising US skaters out there (who would love that spot but cannot take it because of USFS' anachronistic, counter-productive rules).

    Why is Flatt even in the pool, given she hasn't competed at 2013 Nationals and her Skate America 2012 outing was just embarrassing to watch (especially considering Flatt is a former Junior World medallist who was landing all the triples and triple/triple combinations)?

    I just don't understand why USFS keeps investing in her. Her being at Stanford means she isn't able to commit herself fully to skating. Give opportunities to those that can.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  31. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Except for the cost of sending her to Coupe de Nice (entry and travel fees) which I assume the USFS is paying, I'm not sure they are "investing" in her. She is not in a Team A,B or C Envelope and to my understanding is therefore not getting funding from USFS. And I can't think of any other senior lady that is getting passed over for this competition in favor of Flatt, at least not any that one can make an "is more worthy" argument for. If she feels physically, mentally, and financially up for the training and can come up with a creditable set of goods to sell to tech panels and judges, she's as entitled to consideration for competitions as anybody. For US domestic competitions, as a USFS member she can enter club or qualifying competition as her right. As for international competitions, it's up to the other US ladies to prove on the ice, that they deserve the assignment more than Flatt.
  32. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    So do you think those that work shouldn't be funded by USFS either? They have jobs, so they can't fully commit to skating. (Of course, without those jobs, they couldn't skate...)

    There are many athletes who are in school- don't almost all the ice dancers go to Michigan? And pretty much all the younger skaters have commitment to high school, and if any of them are in physical schools (which some do) that is generally less flexible than college schedules. Why should Rachel be knocked out of contention for internationals because she is?

    The idea of 'fully commit' to skating meaning 'nothing else in their life' is ridiculous- pretty much ALL the athletes have something else going on.
  33. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Again: Flatt has competed at one competition last year and she has done very poorly for her standards there. So other US Ladies have proven on the ice that they are better than her (Flatt's SA score would have her 13th at Nationals) but more importantly even more US Ladies have proven that they are improving and gaining new skills whilst Flatt is regressing and is nowhere near the shape that she used to be in the past. Why invest in a skater like that? Why not give an opportunity to somebody who is showing potential and making improvements instead? I just don't understand it at all. To me, it looks like Flatt is getting preferential treatment and I don't understand why.

    I am fully aware that most skaters have jobs and study. Yet some of them are able to combine it with training full-time and competing both nationally and internationally.
  34. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    To be fair to Flatt's credentials.....when she has been healthy, she has been a terrific competitor. She stated in the interview on NBC.com that she has been dealing consistently with injuries for over two full seasons, and she took the time off to heal, following 2012 SA until May 2013, and trained all summer in Colorado as well as competed in a summer event. I would also hazard a guess that since she was training at her former training site, that USFS probably poked their heads in the rink and observed her progress. She has committed the time and the energy to training following her recovery. This has nothing to do, IMHO, if she, or any other skater, is solely focused on skating. Flatt was and has always said, that focusing singularly on skating was not the proper mix for her. She was a full time high school student, involved in many outside activities while skating. And, as others have pointed out, who of us is to determine what is the proper combination of daily activities for each athlete. IIRC, Mark Ladwig balanced training with home life as a husband, father and working at his rink to pay the bills. Ashley Wagner has held various part time jobs over the years to cover skating expenses and has dabbled in local community college classes. John Coughlin has always worked while skating. It is just that Flatt goes to a brick and mortar college full time. Alissa attended Bowling Green while skating, albeit much of her course work over the years online, and most of the Detroit ice dancers attend college classes, usually carrying full loads during the summer, and quite often going down to just one class, or perhaps two classes during the competition season. What works for one athlete does not necessarily work for another.
  35. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Denis Ten, who no one thought would medal last world, did just that.
    Since USFS cannot predict which US lady would surprise, the only fair and safe thing to do is send every possible contender, however unlikely, to get a qualifying score, since top six are gonna get a championship assignment (Olympics + 4cc where a qualifying score is necessary), and there is jw for younger girls too. So there are about 6-9 girls needing qualifying score for their assignment, and with this deep field about 18 girls can place top 9 on a good day
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  36. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    If Rachael was getting preferential treatment, they would have found a way for her to by-pass the regionals and sectionals process by assigning her to international events that conflict with both events. As it is, she may be going to Nice, but she also is at regionals as we speak and as it stands she doesn't have an event that would conflict with sectionals.

    And okay, Rachael would have been 13th at Nationals. As others have pointed out, everyone in the Top 12 have received some sort of international assignment. 1-5 (plus Mirai and Samantha and Caroline Zhang in 7th and 8th and 11th) got GPs, Siraj (5th), Wang (9th) and Miller (10th) got JGPs and Cain got Nebelhorn. In additional Gold, Zadwadski, Hicks and Cesario went to Salt Lake Senior B and Mirai and Vanessa Lam (who like Rachel was also injured and did not compete at Nationals) got Finlandia. The top 5 in juniors all have JGP as well. So I'm still not sure who is exactly being deprived of an assignment cause of Flatt. I guess you could argue any of the folks above should get a second assignment, but there are still some other Senior Bs, so there are opportunities for that too.

    FWIW, the person who did finish 13th at Nationals, Kiri Baga, is also going to Nice.
  37. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    As others have already asked then - who do you think should go in her place? Who is this hypothetical skater that is missing out?
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  38. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I see Flatt and Czisny in the same boat. Both were injured last year, both had terrible outings at their last international assignment, both have been top ten in the world, both are returning from injury. I realize it may not be the same posters, but there seems to be a lot more slack given to Czisny, who even in her prime, has never been as consistent a skater as Flatt. Heck, some people seemed to think that Czisny should be able to get to Nationals with only doubles! Seriously?
  39. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    It's one thing to say Flatt has been more consistent, but if you actually look at their competitive records Czisny shines a lot brighter than Flatt IMO. Up to this point, she and Wagner have been the only two US women to win gold at a major Sr. international since Kimmie Meissner retired. (No, I'm not counting Hicks or Zawadzki at the US Senior B the last two years, or Nagasu at Finlandia a few years back as having a major impact)

    That being said, I don't see either of them having a shot at an Olympic spot. I do wish them both the best in achieving their personal goals this season.
  40. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Rachael has a realistic shot at finishing in the top 6 at Nationals and making the 4CC team. I really fail see how making sure she has a chance to compete internationally and fulfill the min TS scores requirements shows any preferential treatment from USFSA.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
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