Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by maureenfarone, Jan 26, 2013.
Rachael is too competitive to be skating just for herself or just to be skating imho.
She may as well try. It's a long shot, but I wouldn't be too surprised if she grabbed the third spot either, depending on how things go. And like Conga said, I would have liked to hear a little more about her current skating. She appears to be very focused on school and her future career, which is awesome, but the article made it seem like competing for a spot on the Olympic team was just a side project for Rachael.
I'd be shocked. But happy for her.
I'd be shocked too. If she does make it, US ladies skating really is in the crapper.
One step at a time for her this season. I'll bet she is savoring every step of the way. Regionals first if I'm not mistaken, and hopefully those won't collide too harshly with her mid-term! Stanford's academic year starts quite late usually (as in only now, unlike the majority of college bachelor programs which start around Labor Day).
Good luck to her this season. Wishing her happiness and tremendous satisfaction with the experience of her journey this season, whether it ends on a podium or not.
I'd bet the farm she wouldn't make any US team. But, I'm happy she wants to skate for herself. Any participation by RF only makes the whole process a little more interesting if only for the
So Rachael apparently has switched clubs to the Central Pacific region (St. Moritz ISC)/Pacific Coast section, which makes sense because CP regionals will be held in Vacaville, CA Oct. 12-15 (SW is in Grapevine, TX), which is much more convenient for her, location-wise, if she decides to compete.
That seems like a lot of foresight and planning for someone who is just doing this for fun
I agree. With all the difficulties involved, I would doubt she is just doing this for fun. Rachael seems to give her all to whatever she does, and I believe she thinks too much of skating to do this half ass. And she has a very competitive spirit. I would be just as happy with her getting the third spot as any other skater.
I wish Rachael the success and satisfaction she hopes for, whatever that may be.
If she's as much a type A personality as my sister (and it sounds moreso), she doesn't do anything half-assed! Even something for fun. Good luck to Rachael!
I wish I was not traveling in mid-October, it'd be nice to see her at a Regionals!
Nice to see Mids decluttering itself a little bit!
WOOOOHOOOOO, RACHAEL IS ENTERED FOR THE 18TH INTERNATIONAL CUP OF NICE!!!!
I just now read it in the K&C forum (thanks to poster Stephanie).
Lol I'm doing somersaults (in my head) and am just so darn excited!!!!
ETA: what lovely news to see when I first check out FSU for the day. ^)
CP Regionals is 10/12-15. Coupe de Nice starts on the 23rd, so it wouldn't keep her out of Regionals. I guess she's planning to do both, and Sectionals, too.
Oh man. I think this is horrid. Could she just retire? There has not been, to my recollection one single solitary singles skater in the last 60 years who has skated successfully while pursuing a full academic course load. It is lovely she wants to get out there and skate, but could the competitive slots please be given to skaters for whom this is a career and who really have a chance to be successful on the Oly stage?
Just my 3 cents.
Don't worry, AA. I really doubt she will be seriously considered for an Oly spot at Nats.
Define "successfully." There have been a substantial minority skaters who competed at an international level while attending college full-time or close to it. Which isn't to say they might not have been more successful before and/or after college.
Tonia Kwiatkowski is one who comes to mind.
Obviously some course loads are more demanding than others. And skaters in other disciplines are more likely to succeed because the US ladies field is so deep to begin with and the jump demands tend to favor girls a bit younger than college age.
For regionals, anyone can enter if they've passed the appropriate tests, are not ineligible, etc. To get to sectionals and Nationals she would have to qualify, same as anyone else who's trying to get to Nationals. Most who go through the qualifying process will finish far short of the Olympic stage.
By "competitive slots" being "given," do you mean the assignment to Cup of Nice?
How should such assignments be given if they must be limited only to those who "really have a chance to be successful on the Oly stage?"
Should the International Committee make assessments as to who does or does not have the potential to make this year's Olympic team, or is still young and not yet at Olympic level but could get there by 2018, and give senior B assignments only to skaters who meet that criterion and don't already have GP or JGP assignments? Does number of college credit hours figure into their assessments of who does or does not meet it? How about any other non-skating activities a skater may be engaged in -- including coaching skating? Or family demands?
So I guess Debi Thomas wasn't a successful singles skater.
Baldwin-Wallace College is not exactly Stanford. (no insult intended to BWC grads or attendees)
IIRC, during the season before the Olympics, Debi either took a leave of absence or cut back her academics to a minimal level. She didn't do full-time training + academics during this time.
Maybe Paul Wylie and/or Matt Savoie fit the description of full-time academics + skating, but I can't think of any previous ladies that do, so I guess I'm in AA's camp of thinking.
That's what I remember reading as well, that Debi Thomas had cut back substantially on her academics that year. And she was also in excellent fighting shape. Neither can be said of Rachael.
Exactly. Debi was still competing even while she was going to school Rachael on the other hand has been largely inactive since going to school. I hope she's in better shape then when she was at SA last season because she didn't even look like she belonged on the same ice as the other skaters.
Of course Debi Thomas was successful. But this is my point:
As to Debi Thomas:
Um - pretty much.
And Tonia she had similar problems during her college years. That is / was my point. Balancing the two is just too hard.
Debi Thomas may not have won the same gold medals in 1987 that she had in 1986, but she still won medals. I would define that as competing successfully.
And she didn't do any better internationally in 1988 when she eased up her school load.
If we're talking only about people who have the potential to win a 2014 Olympic medal, I don't think any of them is being shortchanged by not being given Flatt's spot at Cup of Nice. Anyone who might have gotten that spot instead would probably be thrilled to achieve what Flatt has achieved internationally in the past, let alone what Thomas achieved in 1987.
If I am not mistaken, I think I read that Rachael is also President of her class at Stanford.
When young men and women are on the fast track, often they do as much as possible because keeping busy keeps them on target. Rachael knows that, in order to get into a good graduate school, whether it be medical, engineering or something else, one needs to have a fat resume, complete with good extracurriculars as well as great grades. So, in addition to taking top courses at a tiered college and doing very well, Rachel is skating at the highest level possible, and is participating in politics and I would imagine a few other things both in and out of school, like her summer internship with doctors in Colorado.
So, please let Rachael be and do not criticize her for trying. She'll give up skating when it no longer fits in her schedule. But right now she is handling it and a whole lot of other stuff very very well. Great kid. She will do just fine in life.
ITA - if she is expecting to have a high powered professional career - she will be expected to juggle - I say good luck and go for it - if she makes the team she deserves to go..
Athletes at colleges and universities go to school and compete many more times a year than a skater does. There is really no reason a skater shouldn't be able to do the same if their training is handled properly.
I'm thrilled about the up coming competition at Nice.
But it's college. Which she combined successfully with skating.
Yes, for one semester or two she did cut back. And later said it was a mistake and did not have improved results to show for it which backs up her assessment that it was a mistake. But the rest of the time she was going full-tilt at school while competing successfully.
So now we have a total of 4 people we can point out... which is four more than the ZERO that AxelAnnie can think of.
There are more, of course. But every name that comes up, someone will nitpick at it. That doesn't change the fact that it is possible for some people. It's hard, but it's possible. IMO, Rachel's problem is less that she's going to Stanford and more that she's struggling with injury. Shrug.
Carol Heiss attended and graduated from New York University during her competitive career.
Btw, "the last 60 years" means any skater who skated from 1953 onwards. So I believe that would include a boatload of skaters including Heiss and quite a few of her generation. I don't think it was all that unusual to combine elite skating with college in the 50s and 60s or even the 70s for that matter.
Cant wait for Rachael to compete at Cup of nice in late october
As long as she is happy I fail to see why the rest of us should care. I admit that I wondered why USFS gave her Skate America last year, but it doesn't sound like they are giving her big events this year and if she wants to go out there and skate then why is it a problem?
I am sure some of us have hobbies that we will never be world class in. I run half marathons. I have no hope of ever winning one or even finishing in the top half, but that doesn't mean I am going to quit training and running them? So... why isn't she entitled to that same experience. I think she's smart enough to know what she can expect with what she has on her plate. Last year at Nationals she seemed fine with the outcome.
^ I agree...as long as her expectations are realistic and she enjoys it, I don't see why she should quit.
She reminds me of Em Hughes in 2009-2010 - people forget but Hughes made a run there, think she ended up 9th or so at trials (put's Cohen's attempt in perspective IMHO). That's probably what Flatt can expect - IF she puts her mind to it.
Classy and well stated, Lacey, I agree.
Everything else is just sour grapes.
*ADMIN EDIT* Colour fonts are annoying. Please stop.
Why do you think someone (anyone) who was a National Champion would want to compete knowing they will not match their former achievements. I understand competing is fun, and in a perfect world, a competition is a marker in time of where you stack up against others.
However, watching an athlete who achieved greatness, compete past their prime always makes me sad. Whatever the sport - Joe Montana, Fumie Suguri. Sarah Hughes when she wasn't in shape after the Olympics. That is just my bias.
Skaters (athletes in general) do it all the time (e.g., Kat Witt). Athletes have personal reasons for competing that we may not have any insight into. Witt's journey to Sarajevo and her reasons for competing were well-documented, but that isn't always the case. Surely she had no expectation to compete matching any former achievement. In fact, she was uncertain she would even make the German team.
As far as your bias, that is your bias and your issue, and has no relationship to Rachel Flatt or her decision to compete. You may not like it, but that isn't Rachel's issue. She seems to be happy and well-adjusted. I think if she's able to compete and wants to try it, she should. But that goes for just about everyone and everything in life, IMHO, as long as it's not hurting anyone.
I agree for the most part but it also doesn't really matter if her expectations are realistic. She may well have the goal to get to the Olympics again. If she does, so what? It is not like her goals are hurting anyone. If she can compete and place higher than others then so be it. My dd thinks she is going to be a National Champion and go to the Olympics. I don't think that is a very realistic goal, but she is certainly entitled to it. I know I get really tired of well meaning parents scolding me for allowing dd to skate so much. "She is missing so much," they say. Well she doesn't see it that way and I suspect neither does Rachel. At some point people need to just make their own choices.
But this isn't about you. It is her life and she should not be worried about you being sad.
So she gets to decide what she wants to do and I have no idea why you think she might not want to compete.
I know a man who went to Olympics as a runner. The Munich Olympics....he is still running. He knows he is not going back to the Olympics but he loves it. And while you might be sad, he is happy
Exactly. Its her money and her life. Gosh, If no one did anything that wasn't garuenteed the highest level of success, then no one would do anything.
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