Update on Rachael Flatt

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by maureenfarone, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Well, I don't know how to respond to that. That's a preference thing.

    I can respond to the claims at hand, as written which is that 1.) Rachael shouldn't get opportunities because they should got to another skater. 2.) Rachael shouldn't get opportunities because she isn't committing to it full-time.

    Which I say 1.) I don't see any proof that a skater is adversely affected because Rachael got Cup of Nice and 2.) Some people choose to juggle different things. Look at Lolo Jones and her attempt to do bobsledding. I say if they can balance the two things in a way that they enjoy it then, great!
     
  2. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I can add a third one - 3) Flatt shouldn't get opportunities because X doesn't want to see her skating any more and wishes she'd go away.

    Harsh, perhaps, but it seems to be the underlying message when you rip apart all the surface layers and get straight to the point...
    _______

    At the end of the day, I guess I don't understand exactly what opportunities she's taking away from the rest of the field. It's not like she's getting a free pass to Nationals or anything, right? She's going through the system like all the other skaters. Whether I personally want to see her there or not has no bearing on this....right?

    And if not Flatt to Cup of Nice....then, pray tell - who?
     
  3. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on your perspective. Flatt is also an Olympian and has never finished as low at Worlds as Czisny. Czisny may have a GPF gold so her high may be higher, but her lows are also significantly lower.

    ITA about the Olympic spots, and I also hope they both achieve their goals this season..
     
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Rachael finished 1st at Central Pacific Regionals today and has advanced to Pacific Coast Sectionals: http://www.usfigureskating.org/lead...4_central_pacific_regionals/CAT011SEG017.html
    Side note: Besides Flatt, Diggs is a full-time college student at UC-Berkeley (senior?) and Davis (sophomore, I think) at the Univ. of Utah.

    She landed a 3Lz+2T, 3S+2T and one of her 2A - link to CP Sr Ladies FS protocols: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_central_pacific_regionals/SEGM017.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    There is no requirement to give anyone who is eligible for an international assignment an assignment. USFS doesn't always assign Cup of Nice. The money doesn't go away if USFS doesn't use it for an international assignment.

    It is possible, though, that USFS is sending her to an international competition to see before Nationals if their own judges are in line with how international judges are marking and their tech panels are in line with how international tech panels are calling.
     
  6. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

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    Thank you so much for the link results! Where can I find this for the other regional competitions? Icenetwork makes it so difficult to find these stuff!
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    My compilation of Regionals links: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/regionals/
    (There's a U.S. Regionals thread in Kiss and Cry for those who have access.)
     
  8. eurodance2001

    eurodance2001 Active Member

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  9. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Yippee, Rach makes it to Sectionals! :cheer2:

    I just now found out in the K&C (my reply copied & pasted from over there):


    Nice news to see when I first log onto FSU today. :)

    Hmmm, it looks like Rach is shooting for 5 triples in total as her end goal, judging by the doubles. jmho. Can't wait till Sectionals is shown on IN! :cool:
     
  10. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

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    There's another thing that gets me about the Czisny/Flatt comparisons. Rachael, skating injured at worlds, pops two triples, doesn't fall, lands a 3-jump combination, gets level 3s and 4s, finishes 12th...fined, attitude on this board seems to be "let's tar and feather her." Alissa, skating injured at worlds, falls seven times over the course of two programs, barely makes the FS, lands one rotated triple in her FS, lowest-placing US lady since Nicole Bobek in 1994...not fined, and the attitude here and at other places is "poor dear, poor nervous artiste Alissa" - I believe one of the Icenetwork writers reporting on Nice 2012 called her FS the most courageous skate at the event.

    I like Alissa's skating a lot more than Rachael's but yeesh. Why does one of them get the benefit of the doubt over the other? Is it because Alissa is more classically beautiful than Rachael? Is it because Alissa's name is harder to make into rude rhyming insults? Is it because Alissa's phoenix-from-the-ashes narrative is more fairytale than Rachael's smart-kid-with-an-Olympic-sports-career narrative? I would love a reason.

    Congratulations to both Alissa and Rachael on their regionals wins. I truly hope both of them make it to nationals and skate there to the best of their abilities.
     
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  11. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    I suppose the difference is that Alissa didn't know about her injury while Rachael did. At least that's the prevailing argument, anyway.
    .
    I do find the Rachael/Alissa reactions pretty interesting though. There are all sorts of posts about how Alissa can get to Nationals without triples on GS, but yet Rachael will likely get the narrative of failure for only landing two triples at regionals.

    I'm not sure if they would save a whole lot of money by not sending Rachael. It's likely she will share a hotel room with Kiri Baga or Jessica Calalang. I won't say it's a drop in the bucket, but I'm not sure if it would be a substantial amount that could be used elsewhere. I also wouldn't be surprise if USFSA had a use it or lose it policy regarding certain line items, and they had money in the international competitions pool to spare. But, I'm not privy to those issues, so my thoughts are speculative at best.

    Kwanfan1818, I remember you mentioning that you are are a USFSA member, have you voiced your concerns regarding this matter? I'd be interested to hear what they would have to say.

    And Rachael is hardly the only skater who has been sent to events despite poor results in the past. Caroline Zhang's various trips to Skate America come to mind. And Baga hasn't been close to Rachael's success as a singles skater and went from 10th in 2012 to 13th at Nationals last year. And Vanessa Lam had a subpar JGP season last year and was also not at nationals and still received a Senior B.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  12. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    They're two totally different skaters with two totally different strengths. Alissa's strength lies in her spins, spirals, flexibility, posture, and artistry, whereas Rachael's strength is/was her consistency at landing triples (until her injury that is) and her joie de vivre whilst skating. Therefore I honestly see no reason why Alissa should not be able to get to Nationals on her strengths, and the same goes for Rachael. I think it's fair, and I sincerely appreciate both.

    Now it's on to Sectionals (which will be broadcast on IN)! :cheer2:
     
  13. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    Historically....Alissa's DSC Champions Revue leading up to 2012 Nationals was, how do I put it..... She seemed uncomfortable with the jumps in her program that night and fell several times.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Wfuj1XHA

    Although she skated somewhat stronger programs at US Nationals, USFS sent her to The Challenge Cup at the Hague prior to Worlds, where she did not skate well either and struggled with jumping passes:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_hOWljg9A

    And, unfortunately, we know what happened at Worlds that year.
    I suspect Alissa and her team were concerned about her jumping passes/landings, but the diagnosis was not done until after Worlds, and honestly, I think this was because of what Rachael went thru the year before.
     
  14. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Every week and month should make for a solid building opportunity for both Rachael and Alissa. Will be interesting to monitor the progress in even a month at Sectionals
     
  15. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    It will take a lot of skaters bombing for Rachael to get anywhere near the top 10. 139 points would have only gotten her 13th last year and the field will be even more loaded at Nationals come January.
     
  16. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why we are comparing her to Alissa- Alissa isn't being sent to an international, at least it doesn't appear she is. And her team made it clear she wanted one.
     
  17. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    They're both former national champions who didn't compete at Nationals last season and are having to requalify through regionals and sectionals. Seems like a valid reason for comparing their experiences at regionals, and potentially the season as a whole.

    So the only point of comparison --or point of contrast -- regarding internationals is that Flatt has one and Czisny doesn't. At this point.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Ok fair enough. I did not remember the extent of her injuries. Given how many skaters got international assignments, I guess I can understand why she got one as well (even though I'd personally choose up-and-coming skaters instead).
     
  19. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    You never know what could happen between now and Nationals (other skaters getting injured, etc) and you don't know what her goals are, so who cares if she's in the top ten or not? It might be a personal challenge just to deliver two decent programs at Nationals.
     
  20. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    And it's also been made equally clear by what little skating Alissa has put out on the ice recently, that she isn't ready to compete internationally yet, even at a Senior B. I'm sure USFS will continue to monitor her progress and weigh the options.

    I'm also fascinated by the amount of double-standardism's coming from some of the forum members, declaring that Flatt should hang it up and go away, while practically bestowing a free pass to Czisny on the basis of......I'm not sure. Czisny's better spins? Beauty? Costumes? Sorry guys, but that's just uber favoritism towards a skater you like. And I say this as someone who's never been a particular Rachael fan yet has been eagerly watching Alissa since she was a spunky 8 year old skating juvenile in Ohio. But I have to give Rachael the respect that's due her CURRENT efforts and abilities, and maybe the USFS sees it the same way.

    I'm still waiting for someone to come with that hypothetical lady skater that is being overlooked in favor of Flatt.
     
  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall loooooong threads ripping Alissa for going to worlds and "embarassing the USA" as I think one poster put it.

    Underlying the "anti-Flatt" sentiment, imo, is the very real concern that she will be scored with rose colored glasses.
     
  22. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    I don't think this is much of a concern anymore. As far as internal US competitions go, I don't think she's got any particular currency left in the Favor Bank that she can draw upon. If anything, I would think US tech panels and judges would be more likely to cast an overly critical eye to her skating. As for international judges, we'll find out at Coupe de Nice.
     
  23. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    duplicate
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  24. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Phil Hersh, for example, went after Flatt with a pitchfork, almost literally, but came up with all kinds of excuses for Czisny. Many posters, while somewhat less blatant than he was, did the same thing.

    I don't think that's a concern as far as Flatt is concerned (nor should it be one). Czisny, on the other hand...
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  25. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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    Definitely not.

    Rachael's PCS at Regionals were quite low. In the FS, her PCS were in the mid-5's (transitions) to low 6s (Interpretation). She was about 7 points higher in PCS than second place, but that isn't saying much.

    Alissa's PCS at her Regional's FS was six points higher than Rachael's and ranged from the mid 6s (transitions) to 7 even in skating skills. She was 14 points higher than 2nd place and about 20+ on everyone else.

    That said, I haven't seen the programs, so I'll reserve judgment until I see them.
     
  26. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  27. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    Except she has. Last year she was injured and taking a particularly heavy load at school. This year she is not injured and she has deliberately lightened her load at school so she can concentrate on skating more. That seems like a plan for how to do better this year than last to me.

    It seems to me that when Rachael showed up at that summer comp and had interesting programs and did reasonably well in the SP, that it made people sit up and take notice. I think USFS responding by monitoring her (my assumption) and then giving her the Coup de Nice assignment (actually happened). I also think this is a completely reasonable response to what she's put out there on the ice this summer. I think they are hedging their bets on this one and I don't understand what all the fuss about it. It's not the world's greatest assignment, it's not being given to her at another skater's expense and it puts her and them in a good position if she continues to improve her skating over the course of the season while not causing any trouble if she doesn't. It's not like they assigned her to Skate America.

    I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

    And, as annoying as it can be when a skater you don't like keeps getting opportunities, I do think it's good that USFS doesn't just dump skaters after one bad season. People have their ups and downs and plenty of skaters who have gone on to produce decent top results have had a season where they didn't do as well as the season before.

    That doesn't mean that there aren't a few I wish they'd have dumped sooner. But I don't think Flatt getting Coup de Nice is anywhere near as egregious as Zhang being assigned to Skate America year after year in spite of being in a slump with disappointing results or Lysacek continuing to get assigned to things when he hasn't skated competitively since the Olympics.
     
  28. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    P.S. I would like to see the quote where Czisny's team "made it clear" they wanted international assignments for her. I thought it was the opposite: they'd made it clear they knew she wasn't ready.
     
  29. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    To be fair that wasn't "some" people it was specifically one person (who nearly everyone disagreed with) and I think that person thinks that skating is judged by unicorns, using magical rainbow rules, not judges using the IJS.
     
  30. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you just have me on ignore, or selectively ignoring....and I know i'm sounding like a stuck record here, but WHO. WOULD. YOU. SEND. INSTEAD?
     
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