Update on Rachael Flatt

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by maureenfarone, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Your knowledge, Sylvia, of all things skating truly astounds me. You are the ultimate fan of skating, the best kind. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Seriously, all the time I read your posts I discover something new, like today. Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    Nadine White
     
  2. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And if Mirai had gone and bombed, there'd be people still saying that "reliable Rachael" should have gotten the nod in order to earn three spots again. I do think that Mirai should have been selected over Rachael that year, but to claim that she would have automatically done better is preposterous.

    I hope Rachael does awesome at her Senior B event and feels happy with her season. She really is a great addition to the skating world, no matter what happens from here on out.
     
  3. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    I cannot fathom how anyone would think a full-time student from an elite school would take time out to compete in a sports competition in the midst of a compressed 10-week fall quarter for vacation purposes. Really now....

    Best of luck to Rachel, in school and on the ice!
     
  4. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Heads Up for Rachael Flatt Fans like myself!

    She's skating tomorrow at Regionals (thanks to Sylvia as always for supplying that magical bit of info. over in the K&C):
    http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2014/2014_central_pacific_regionals/results.html

    Here's my reply (copied & pasted over there a little while ago):

    Thanks, Sylvia, for the info. :)

    Here's wishing them all good luck, in particular my fave Rachel Flatt!

    As an aside, I just love the month of October, the beautiful leaves turning from lush green to spectacular gold, bronze, fiery red, and every shade in between... (ps: now's the time to plant your tulips so they'll look breathtaking when Spring gets here!) :)
     
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  6. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Great read (thanks for finding & posting it Sylvia). :)

    Nice positive sunny article, reminiscent of Rachael, the Pollyanna of the here & now, though this one was from another generation. ;)

    http://www.jinni.com/movies/pollyanna
     
  7. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  8. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting the result, NadineWhite! Shame for the 2Lz and LSp2. But she got Lv4 for StS. Yay!
     
  9. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    Saw that Rachael posted this on Facebook after a friend "liked" it:

    So much for her competing potentially causing multiple skaters to quit. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Because USFS pays for it and there are many other, more promising US skaters out there (who would love that spot but cannot take it because of USFS' anachronistic, counter-productive rules).

    Why is Flatt even in the pool, given she hasn't competed at 2013 Nationals and her Skate America 2012 outing was just embarrassing to watch (especially considering Flatt is a former Junior World medallist who was landing all the triples and triple/triple combinations)?

    I just don't understand why USFS keeps investing in her. Her being at Stanford means she isn't able to commit herself fully to skating. Give opportunities to those that can.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  11. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Except for the cost of sending her to Coupe de Nice (entry and travel fees) which I assume the USFS is paying, I'm not sure they are "investing" in her. She is not in a Team A,B or C Envelope and to my understanding is therefore not getting funding from USFS. And I can't think of any other senior lady that is getting passed over for this competition in favor of Flatt, at least not any that one can make an "is more worthy" argument for. If she feels physically, mentally, and financially up for the training and can come up with a creditable set of goods to sell to tech panels and judges, she's as entitled to consideration for competitions as anybody. For US domestic competitions, as a USFS member she can enter club or qualifying competition as her right. As for international competitions, it's up to the other US ladies to prove on the ice, that they deserve the assignment more than Flatt.
     
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    So do you think those that work shouldn't be funded by USFS either? They have jobs, so they can't fully commit to skating. (Of course, without those jobs, they couldn't skate...)

    There are many athletes who are in school- don't almost all the ice dancers go to Michigan? And pretty much all the younger skaters have commitment to high school, and if any of them are in physical schools (which some do) that is generally less flexible than college schedules. Why should Rachel be knocked out of contention for internationals because she is?

    The idea of 'fully commit' to skating meaning 'nothing else in their life' is ridiculous- pretty much ALL the athletes have something else going on.
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Again: Flatt has competed at one competition last year and she has done very poorly for her standards there. So other US Ladies have proven on the ice that they are better than her (Flatt's SA score would have her 13th at Nationals) but more importantly even more US Ladies have proven that they are improving and gaining new skills whilst Flatt is regressing and is nowhere near the shape that she used to be in the past. Why invest in a skater like that? Why not give an opportunity to somebody who is showing potential and making improvements instead? I just don't understand it at all. To me, it looks like Flatt is getting preferential treatment and I don't understand why.

    I am fully aware that most skaters have jobs and study. Yet some of them are able to combine it with training full-time and competing both nationally and internationally.
     
  14. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    To be fair to Flatt's credentials.....when she has been healthy, she has been a terrific competitor. She stated in the interview on NBC.com that she has been dealing consistently with injuries for over two full seasons, and she took the time off to heal, following 2012 SA until May 2013, and trained all summer in Colorado as well as competed in a summer event. I would also hazard a guess that since she was training at her former training site, that USFS probably poked their heads in the rink and observed her progress. She has committed the time and the energy to training following her recovery. This has nothing to do, IMHO, if she, or any other skater, is solely focused on skating. Flatt was and has always said, that focusing singularly on skating was not the proper mix for her. She was a full time high school student, involved in many outside activities while skating. And, as others have pointed out, who of us is to determine what is the proper combination of daily activities for each athlete. IIRC, Mark Ladwig balanced training with home life as a husband, father and working at his rink to pay the bills. Ashley Wagner has held various part time jobs over the years to cover skating expenses and has dabbled in local community college classes. John Coughlin has always worked while skating. It is just that Flatt goes to a brick and mortar college full time. Alissa attended Bowling Green while skating, albeit much of her course work over the years online, and most of the Detroit ice dancers attend college classes, usually carrying full loads during the summer, and quite often going down to just one class, or perhaps two classes during the competition season. What works for one athlete does not necessarily work for another.
     
  15. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Denis Ten, who no one thought would medal last world, did just that.
    Since USFS cannot predict which US lady would surprise, the only fair and safe thing to do is send every possible contender, however unlikely, to get a qualifying score, since top six are gonna get a championship assignment (Olympics + 4cc where a qualifying score is necessary), and there is jw for younger girls too. So there are about 6-9 girls needing qualifying score for their assignment, and with this deep field about 18 girls can place top 9 on a good day
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  16. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P Active Member

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    If Rachael was getting preferential treatment, they would have found a way for her to by-pass the regionals and sectionals process by assigning her to international events that conflict with both events. As it is, she may be going to Nice, but she also is at regionals as we speak and as it stands she doesn't have an event that would conflict with sectionals.

    And okay, Rachael would have been 13th at Nationals. As others have pointed out, everyone in the Top 12 have received some sort of international assignment. 1-5 (plus Mirai and Samantha and Caroline Zhang in 7th and 8th and 11th) got GPs, Siraj (5th), Wang (9th) and Miller (10th) got JGPs and Cain got Nebelhorn. In additional Gold, Zadwadski, Hicks and Cesario went to Salt Lake Senior B and Mirai and Vanessa Lam (who like Rachel was also injured and did not compete at Nationals) got Finlandia. The top 5 in juniors all have JGP as well. So I'm still not sure who is exactly being deprived of an assignment cause of Flatt. I guess you could argue any of the folks above should get a second assignment, but there are still some other Senior Bs, so there are opportunities for that too.

    FWIW, the person who did finish 13th at Nationals, Kiri Baga, is also going to Nice.
     
  17. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    As others have already asked then - who do you think should go in her place? Who is this hypothetical skater that is missing out?
     
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  18. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I see Flatt and Czisny in the same boat. Both were injured last year, both had terrible outings at their last international assignment, both have been top ten in the world, both are returning from injury. I realize it may not be the same posters, but there seems to be a lot more slack given to Czisny, who even in her prime, has never been as consistent a skater as Flatt. Heck, some people seemed to think that Czisny should be able to get to Nationals with only doubles! Seriously?
     
  19. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    It's one thing to say Flatt has been more consistent, but if you actually look at their competitive records Czisny shines a lot brighter than Flatt IMO. Up to this point, she and Wagner have been the only two US women to win gold at a major Sr. international since Kimmie Meissner retired. (No, I'm not counting Hicks or Zawadzki at the US Senior B the last two years, or Nagasu at Finlandia a few years back as having a major impact)

    That being said, I don't see either of them having a shot at an Olympic spot. I do wish them both the best in achieving their personal goals this season.
     
  20. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Rachael has a realistic shot at finishing in the top 6 at Nationals and making the 4CC team. I really fail see how making sure she has a chance to compete internationally and fulfill the min TS scores requirements shows any preferential treatment from USFSA.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
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  21. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    I think some of you are thinking the complaints are based on fact rather then a predetermined decision. Doesn't really matter what Rachel does for some posters it's an opportunity to "trash" If they don't like a skater doesn't really matter what they actually do, they were "gifted" etc.... No need to try to change their mind :)
     
  22. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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    Alissa’s career resume is longer than Flatt’s due to her age, 26 yrs old and her birthday….Alissa was born in June, Flatt, age 21, was born in July and had to wait to compete at Jr and Sr levels internationally due to the July 1 cut off date for competition in the ISU events, and missed the opportunity to compete on those levels…always waiting a year or two, inspite of placements, but did not qualify due to age.

    Alissa’s competitive career since 2001-2013 (this encompasses Jr and Sr international careers):
    Jr events (2001-2004)
    JGP events (5 events) 1st: 2 times; 2nd: 2 times; 5th: 1 time
    JGPF: 5th
    World Junior Championships (two events): 6th and 11th
    Sr events (2004-2013)
    Worlds (4 trips) : 2007: 15th, 2009: 11th, 2011: 5th, 2012: 22nd
    No Olympic events
    4CC (3 events): 2007: 5th, 2009: 9th 2011: 5th
    GPF (3 events): 2006: 6th, 2011: 1st; 2012: 5th
    GP events from 2004- 2013 (15 events) : 1st: 3 times; 2nd: twice; 3rd: 3 times; 4th: four times; 6th: one time; 9th: twice;
    Sr B events: 2004-2013 (5 events) : 1st: two times; 2nd: one time; 3rd: one time; 4th: one time
    US National Championships (11 events at Sr level) : 1st: twice; 2nd: once; 3rd: once; 7th: twice; 9th: once 10th: twice; 11th, once (Sr debut at US chamipionships in 2002) 12th once

    Rachael’s competitive career: also encompasses Jr and Sr international career, 2006-2013
    Jr events (2006-2008)
    JGP events (two events) : 1st: once; 2nd: once
    JGPF: 2nd: once
    World Junior Championships: 2008: 1st
    Sr events (2008-2013)
    Worlds (three trips) : 2009: 5th; 2010: 9th; 2011: 12th
    2010 Olympics: 7th
    4CC (two events) : 2009: 7th; 2011: 4th
    GPF: 2010: 6th
    GP events from 2008-2012 (9 events): 2nd: four times; 4th: twice; 9th: twice; 10th: once
    Sr B events: assigned to her first event, Nice, FRA 2013
    US National Championships (6 events at US Nationals at Sr level) : 1st: once; 2nd: three times; 5th: once (first season as US Sr lady at age 14); 6th: once

    My summary: Alissa has had ups and downs through out her entire career, with some seasons or periods of seasons of focus and good results., others not so good. Rachael has, when healthy, been a very strong competitor.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
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  23. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Basically, Czisny's highs have been (a little) higher, but also, her lows have been lower. That's all there is to it...
     
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  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Envelopes are based on results. If Flatt had been able to attend Stanford full time and produce those results, there would be no question that she'd deserve to be in an envelope and get funding.

    A few classes at a time, mostly, worked around their training, not the other way around.
     
  25. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    This makes it sound as though none of Alissa's "downs" had anything to do with injury...Just sayin' ;)
     
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Flatt should be put in a funded envelope, and it doesn't appear she has- by sending her to an international that possibly places her in reserve envelope, but they don't get any sort of funding except plane tickets. But I agree with the USFS she should be given the opportunity to earn the minimum TES at a Senior B, because she will likely qualify for nationals, and there she may qualify for a championship (including 4CCs). This was something that didn't used to exist- so it wasn't a consideration the USFS had to give: but now they have to prepare any skater who may skate post-nationals to have the minimum scores required to do so. She is clearly still training, and is competing in qualifying competitions- just like skaters who work and do school. She's just doing a bit more school than others.

    I still think full time high school (which I think she did) is more demanding than full time college. College you get to pick when your classes are- she's at a large enough school that there are different sections, and you get to generally pick which classes to take when (ie- save a demanding class for next fall instead of this fall)
     
  27. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P Active Member

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    Well she did place 6th at Nationals in 2012 and Envelope C funding for 2012-2013...so she has achieve funding status while at Stanford...

    ***

    I guess what people are bothered by is this perception that Flatt is doing this as a side-job as opposed to doing it as the MAIN activity. Even those who have jobs/other activities are doing it to fund their skating, so I'm not sure it's comparable.

    Personally it doesn't bother me that much. I don't really see any skater being negatively affected by Rachel's efforts. She's actually been quite low key about her comeback and has even said point blank while she would love to be on another Olympic team, her goal is just to do well.
     
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    It's been posted previously that Flatt already attained the TES minimums for the Olympics/4 Continents at last year's Skate America.

    ETA from the 2013-14 team envelope criteria:
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Flatt already has the minimum TES for Olympics/4C's and the FS World minimum from last year's SA. Were she to need a Worlds SP minimum, presumably this would be because she'd be high enough at US Nationals to be able to earn it at the Olympics and/or 4C's.

    Not in the current time period -- not four months after she started college -- which is what is being discussed. No one is arguing about past envelope funding.

    They either have the results or they don't. I don't see adequate but downward results from the year before and her results last year showing a pattern that warrants an investment in her skating, when she hasn't outlined a training plan for why this season would be much different. It's not a matter of taking a spot from anyone else: it's about banking the money and using it for something else in the future.

    That's fine, but it doesn't mean that she should be sent to a Senior B at USFS's expense, which is what is being debated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  30. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I think they just don't like her very much.

    The same posters said the same things when she focused on skating, too.