Under 6.0...

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by MissIzzy, Mar 19, 2013.

?

Would Denis Ten have medaled?

  1. Yes

    28 vote(s)
    26.4%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    14.2%
  3. Michelle Kwan

    35 vote(s)
    33.0%
  4. Only if he hadn't doubled the flip

    3 vote(s)
    2.8%
  5. He would've won, you idiot!

    25 vote(s)
    23.6%
  1. MissIzzy

    MissIzzy Active Member

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    Would some guy with his reputation in a terrible place from a country whose name most of the judges probably can't even spell have gotten as far as he did?
     
  2. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    Yes I do think he would. Back to back great skates. I don't see why not. Still as 6.0 didn't resolve around underrotations as much who knows. Daisuke could have gone up.
     
  3. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

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    What's sad is, Denis not only missed the flip but the toe (doubling rather than tripling), if he had only rotated one of them, he would have won... regardless... I voted for the Kween!!!
     
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  4. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Doubling a jump understood the 6.0 system in the freeskate was not a mistake, and having more content than others would have given a skater a higher base than others.

    Michelle would have gotten 6.0s in the artistic marks because ... she skates from her core and has a less blocked chi than Patrick Chan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  5. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Like, duh! Michelle Kwan! :glamor:
     
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  6. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    He might have won under 6.0, since he didn't fall at all.
     
  7. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    If there were any justice in the world, yes.
     
  8. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Politics aside, under 6.0 you could also consider

    Ten: 1.0 points for his SP and 1.0 for his FS = 2.0 points overall
    Chain: .5 points for his SP and 2.0 for his FS = 2.5 points overall
     
  9. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Yea, Denis would have won by virtue of winning the LP and being top three in the SP - thereby "controlling his destiny". :)
     
  10. neptune

    neptune New Member

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    What about Over 6.0...?? Never thought of that case, did ya? ;)
     
  11. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Denis is from Kazakstan. He wouldn't even be in top 5 in 6.0 system
     
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Under 6.0 do you think he would have been top 3 in the SP in the first place? I don't...
     
  13. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Yes because Kaz would get RUS bloc behind D10 by trading its vote in dance to help B/S (Bobrova Soloviev) win over D/W and V/M. So we'd be wuzrobbing over dance and not men's.
     
  14. IceIceBaby

    IceIceBaby New Member

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    No because Patrick skated before Ten and judges had already given the 6.0 for him.
     
  15. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    The real question is whether Denis would have placed top 3 after the SP under 6.0 (if they had continued with completely random draws in the 6.0 era)
     
  16. CassAgain

    CassAgain Active Member

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    Being coached by Frank C., I think he would have still been second in the short and won the long, therefore winning the whole thing. But would a kid from Kazakstan be coached by Frank under 6.0?
     
  17. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Not so familiar with 6.0. But I guess Ten would definately medal. However Ten's tech points would have been much lower than Chan's given that 6.0 values harder jumps more than CoP does. So it's hard to say whether or not he'd win under 6.0. I think probably not. Plushenko fell in SP in 2002 Olympics. But he was still placed in fourth place, a lot higher than many skaters who did not fall that day.
     
  18. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I love that Michelle is winning this poll...:lol:
     
  19. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    In 1976, it would have been as absurd as coaching a skater from China . . . but Frank did work with Chen Lu in the early 1990s until she was recalled to China.

    I think geopolitics would have prevented Frank from working with D10 more than anything else. In the Soviet Era, if D10's talent was recognized, he might have very well ended up with Mishin. D10 did train in Russia during the early part of his career.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  20. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you meant it that way, but that statement about Mishin comes across as Mishin was a second (or third?) rate coach. He did coach Plushenko to an OGM and 3 world titles, and Yagudin learned his jumps from Mishin, not from Tarasova.
     
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Vash01- I read the statement the opposite way. As in "if D10's talents were recognized the Soviet Union would have sent him to train with Mishin" so he wouldn't be obscure Kazak skater- but high profile Soviet one.
     
  22. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Mishin coached more OGMists than that. Don't forget Alexei Urmanov. Sheesh ;)

    Skittl1321understood. D10 going to Mishin during the Soviet Era would have been like Nellie Kim going to train at Round Lake. D10 would have been sent to Mishin so he could be made into a Soviet Champion.

    ... Gosh, if D10 had been a Soviet skater, then he would have been eligible for Euros.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  23. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    How can you have Michelle Kwan as an option without Purple?
     
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  24. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    How can you have Michelle Kwan as an option at all? She never got anything "Under 6.0" :p, right?
     
  25. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget that D10 proved himself a few years ago as well, so he already had some credibility which would have helped him here with the placements. He still might have lost, however. He would have won the technical part of the LP over Chan but not by much. The spins and footwork of Chan are a lot better. Chan would have won the presentation. Chan winning the presentation would have him winning the LP overall.

    I thought 10 was great and would have had him win this Worlds, but I can definitely understand Chan winning as well. The quality of the non-jumps and his overall skating is superior, IMO.

    I do kind of want to smack 10 for doubling that flip though. He definitely would have won. Just like if J.Butt hadn't doubled his loop in the LP at the 2006 O's, he could have had the silver since there were less than 4 points between him and Stephane (I wanted to smack him for that as well).
     
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    That's where I have to disagree with you.

    Under 6.0 in particular jumps were THE things, Skaters got high marks for spins and footwork as long as they landed the jumps. Miss the jumps (more than once) and you are not getting the gold (unless everyone else bombs, like at the 92 Oly ladies).

    Chan would have gotten the high marks however, because of his basic skating skills. Still, I think with 4 mistakes in his program, he would not have won the LP. So Ten would have won overall (assuming he would be in the top 3 in the SP).
     
  27. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    But spins and footwork weren't rewarded much under 6.0. Dick Button brought that up quite frequently, especially if someone was an exceptional spinner.
     
  28. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    tears in my eyes :glamor: