U.S. Team Envelope / International Selection Pool (ISP) skaters & updates for 2012-13

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 8, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    The 2012-13 team envelopes (A-C) have been published online by USFS: http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=48071&type=media

    Earlier thread in Trash Can that explains the 2012-13 envelope criteria and the International Selection Pool (published on April 26, 2012): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82601

    ETA: I'm glad to see that Angela Wang, Max Aaron, and Emily Samuelson/Todd Gilles (8th place finishers in Senior at 2012 Nationals) were included in Team C, along with Madeline Aaron/Max Settlage (6th in Jr Pairs) and Amanda Bertsch/Sam Kaplun (7th in Jr Dance; though both of them are currently listed on IPS).
    Last edited: May 8, 2012
  2. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    Glad to see Courtney Hicks get funding after her injury last season. :rollin:

    I know one dance team (or at least his mom) that is very excited by their funding. Whee! :lol:
  3. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    Thank Sylvia.

    Happy that Caroline Z. and Agnes Z. were included in Team B.
  4. vexlak

    vexlak New Member

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    out of curiosity how much funding does the USFSA provide?
  5. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    Why was not Evan Lysacek not given ANY funding level? Because he did not compete last season? If true, USFS is cutting their own throat with what appears to some as a major Snub!
  6. shsocu

    shsocu Active Member

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    Does he really need the funds?
  7. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    If he competes, Who will he represent at international ISU events? USFSA!!!
    Sounds like USFSA doesn't really care if he competes for them or not. Not good PR!
  8. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Hooray! Joshua and Jason both got team B! :D


    ....but Nathan Chen in Team B already? I don't know a whole lot about the envelopes but isn't that a little...high for someone who's only just old enough to do Juniors internationally? :confused:
  9. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Chen won junior men, and I thought usually junior US champs get team B.
  10. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    all seems fair.
  11. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Could the USFS add Evan to Team A or Team B if he actually does come back?
  12. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Wow, I'm surprised that Courtney Hicks made into Team C while Leah Keiser didn't. Leah was skating pretty well all season until National's. Too bad she was never given a JGP.
  13. Tammi

    Tammi Well-Known Member

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    I think you have the answer in the first sentence of your response "if he competes". Part of the criteria for funding is:

    Consideration will be given to place a 2010 Olympic medalist into Team A or Team B at the discretion of the ICMS. These athletes must have retained their eligible status and must be committed to competing in the current and/or following competitive season.

    It sounds like Evan may not have made an official committment yet to USFS about competing in the upcoming season.
  14. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Ah, okay. I guess it makes sense from that point of view.

    I don't see why Lysacek should get USFSA funding. It's not like the US are short of quality men to begin with. Even Plushenko didn't get funding from the RFSF when he first came back and the Russians were in a much more dire state than the US are now. He had to prove to them he was serious before they would. The same thing should apply here; Lysacek can show he's serious before he gets funding.

    EDIT: I see Tammi beat me to it and actually found a rule. :)
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  15. sus2850

    sus2850 Member

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    Not that I really miss him, but why is Brandon Mroz not there in an envelope (or am I blind)? And Mark Lawdwig with his new partner Lindsay Davis?
    And I guess what you said about Evan applies to Johnny Weir as well, that he is not on the list as it is not certain yet whether he really comes back?
  16. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Mroz had a terrible GP season and was 14th at Nationals and thus didn't get any post-nationals assignments, so he didn't qualify for any funding this season. If he gets international assignments, he will be added to the reserve envelope.
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Hicks won the gold medal at her JGP in Australia and that alone qualified her for Team C. Keiser won the gold in her junior international debut at Challenge Cup in March, but spring developmental international medals are not counted for Team C funding in the following season (although Keiser and Pfund/Reiss were added to Team C on the USFS site after they medalled at Challenge Cup).

    Any new teams that are formed -- including from split ones that would had qualified for a 2012-13 funded envelope had they not split (Evora/Ladwig, Cain/Reagan, Poapst/Knierim, Olson/Cowan, Cannuscio/Lorello, Bonacorsi/Mager) -- will be added to the Reserve envelope if they receive an international assignment.

    The published criteria for envelopes A-C are based on international and Nationals results this season and can be viewed at: http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=350
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  18. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    Sylvia,
    You should start teaching classes.

    ISK101: Remedial Grand Prix Assignments process and procedure
    ISK102: Remedial Junior Grand Prix Assignments process and procedure
    ISK103: US Figure Skating ISP and Team Envelope exploration

    These three classes should keep you in work, pay for all of your expenses, and allow you to travel from competition to competition as a write off. Let me know if you decided to start conducting the classes. I think that I know where to get you some (hundreds) of students.
  19. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    This. :)
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Daphne

    Daphne Active Member

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    What Jayar said :)
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Ahem. "ISK101: Remedial Grand Prix Assignments process and procedure" is kwanfan1818's specialty, not mine!
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I'm just an analyst nerd who's trying to reverse engineer what the GP Announcement means from the behavior that follows...
    Rottie and (deleted member) like this.
  23. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Johnny isn't an olympic medalist either. He might not be assigned to any envelope.
  24. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    :watch: You folks just crack me up! :biggrinbo
  25. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    So do GP assignments actually come out May 19th? For some reason I thought it was usually later in June...
  26. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    I think that it's actually May 21st, but I'm not sure if that's when the skaters are told and the public shortly thereafter. I think that it could be as much as a week later
  27. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    The Skate America webpage specifically states that the ISU GP Assignments will be announced 5/21. The GP announcement was later last year b/c the WC was delayed.
  28. vexlak

    vexlak New Member

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    I hate to be pushy but does anyone know how are the funds distributed? Or is it unethical to ask?
  29. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Please refresh my memory, how does one who is not in a team envelope (such as Johnny, Evan and Brandon) get chosen for a grand prix event?
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Envelope funding has nothing to do with Grand Prix selection -- see the 2012-13 Grand Prix Pre-announcement Thread for details about the GP selection process and criteria: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83348
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  31. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    I think the team envelopes just have to do with USFSA funding, not selection for a grand prix event. Grand prix selection is convoluted but I think basically based on world rankings and host picks. So Johnny and Evan could get Skate America based on a host pick.
  32. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Aside from host picks, team envelopes are separate from Grand Prix choices, and as far as I know, USFS has no written justification or criteria for selecting host picks, although over the years there has been speculation that they offer the National Champions a shot at Skate America. (Theoretically, a skater should be on the "International Assignments List" to get a GP host pick, but that list is fluid.) Grand Prix selection is based on:
    • Placement in the Top 12 at last year's World Championships
    • Having a Top 24 Season's Best (SB) and/or World Standing (WS) at the end of last season
    • Using a one-time "come-back" option, based on at least one Top 6 finish at a World Championship before last season
    • Medalists from last year's Jr. World Championships or JGPF who plan to skate in the Senior GP (not guaranteed)
    • Top 75 SB (not guaranteed)

    Team Envelope criteria coincide with some of these, but not all, although, practically speaking, those in Envelope A and most in B should meet the GP criteria for, at least, consideration (Top 75 SB).

    Assuming the same rules as last year:

    As long USFS submitted their names by the deadline and an assurance to the ISU that they were back to competition, both Weir-Voronov and Lysacek can use their one-time option as "come-back" (formerly seeded) skaters to get two GP events in the initial selection. (Lysacek didn't have to take his last season, because he was still ranked 18th in WS and was guaranteed one and was assigned two in the initial GP selection.)

    The only way I can make sense of the GP Announcement is that they can also skip/save the option for next season as a contingency for the Olympic year and, instead, be at the top of alternates list as "come-back" skaters. ("Come-back" skaters aren't defined in the "Replacements" section [7.6] or explicitly limited to those who already used the one-time option.)

    Mroz is 42nd on the SB list, and, theoretically, could be a Top 75 initial pick, but that's not very likely: aside from host picks, there was only one last season in the initial selection (Menshov), and one alternate pick (Majorov, but he was ranked 15th in WS).

    All three could be initial host picks (including if they use the "come back" or host pick replacements, including "TBD" replacements. If the former, they have to have a GP minimum from the last two season, which Mroz should have from Rostelecom 2011, and which Lysacek and Weir-Voronov would have to earn in one of the approved Senior B/International events before their first scheduled GP. If a host pick replacement, either wouldn't have to post a GP minimum score.
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  33. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt Mroz will get a GP this season, I think a bunch of other skaters would be in line to get a 2nd event before he gets a first. Keep in mind that Jeremy Abbott is the ONLY US man guaranteed 2 GP events in the coming season, Adam wasn't top 12 at Worlds and Ross didn't get to Worlds so they only have 1 event each for sure, along with Ricky, and Josh and Jason if they move up.

    Armin doesn't have any events guaranteed but is more likely to be considered for a host spot over Mroz due to his better result at Nationals, the same is true for Razzano. And actually, Mroz's scores on the GP were so abysmal that Armin and Doug, who didn't have good GP seasons either, still scored higher at their events than Mroz did at either of his. Even someone like Carriere, Aaron, or Messing would likely be given a host pick over Mroz just considering recent results. Of course the host spot could be given to someone in the Adam-Ross-Ricky-Josh*-Jason* (*provided they move up, i haven't heard one way or another what either boy plans to do yet) should they not get 2 events right away.

    So it's hard to tell what will happen. I would think Ross and Adam have a good shot at getting 2 events right away, and the odds for Josh and Jason to get 2 events is probably also pretty good, but we don't know if they are moving up yet. Ricky I would think would only get 1 event, unless of course we have the situation where one or both of Josh and Jason stay on the JGP for next season, in which case he could get 2 and the host spot at SA could open up for one of the other guys, likely from those I mentioned in the last paragraph. What are the odds for Armin getting an assignment that isn't a host spot? I know he has no realistic shot at 2 assignments unless one is a host pick, but even though he's not on the top 24 SB or WS list, could he maybe still get one invite?
  34. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Mahbanoozadeh could get a non-host assignment in the initial selection, but his odds aren't that much better than Mroz's, since he's all of one place (41 vs. 42) on the SB list, and his SB score (at NHK) was all of .09 above Mroz's SB (at Rostelecom). Below 24, WS doesn't count for much.

    USFS may decide to lobby/deal for a spot for Mahbanoozadeh, because they skipped him for 4C's. If they're going to lobby/deal for a skater not already guaranteed one, I would rather see them do it for Razzano, who is 38 on the SB list and whose SB list was 7+ points above Mahbahnoozadeh and Mroz, two skaters with more international experience and more opportunities over the years.
  35. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    If a spot is available, I've a feeling USFS will lobby for Armin over Razzano and Mroz because 1) Armin is a US nationals medalist 2) USFS usually makes up to skaters (that's just my impression and not any expert opinion).

    But then USFS may well decide heck witht he current men and give the combackers one more shot (if they don't have 2 gps).

    I don't see USFS having spots to play with in the first place, given how even Adam may not get a second GP
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    2 new pairs have been added to USFS' International Selection Pool: http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=447

    Lindsay Davis & Mark Ladwig
    Caitlin Yankowskas & Joshua Reagan

    ETA: Charlotte Lichtman & Dean Copely were removed from the original ISP list following the 4/27/12 official press release announcing their split.
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  37. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Last season, US had the following spots:

    Rippon guaranteed (2)
    Abbott guaranteed (1), received (2)
    Dornbush guaranteed (2)
    Miner guaranteed (2)
    Bradley guaranteed (1) but retired
    Mahbahnoozadeh guaranteed (1), got a second host TBD
    Third host spot: (1)

    Total: guaranteed/host 10, received/used 11, distributed among seven skaters


    US has the following guaranteed spots this season:

    Abbott (2)
    Miner (1)
    Rippon (1)
    Brown (1) -- if he takes it
    Farris (1) -- if he takes it
    Dornbush (1)
    Other host spots* (2)

    Total: guaranteed, 9, taken TBD, distributed among six-eight skaters, not necessarily including Lysacek and Weir-Voronov.

    *Assuming that Abbott will have a choice of Skate America, there are two host spots left.

    Lysacek and Weir could get two anywhere if they invoke the "come-back" clause. They could each get an initial host pick, whether or not they invoke the "come-back" clause. They could each get a TBD host pick or get one from the alternates list (at the top as "come-back" skaters).
  38. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Thx for the analysis, Kwanfan!
    Abbott doesnt ever get skam though :(
  39. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Abbott is a 3 time US Sr Champ, 1 time Jr Champ and has never been invited to Skate America yet. Lysacek got SA last year (then didn't skate)

    Why break the trend and invite Abbott this year?
  40. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    You're both right, and now that Abbott is the only US skater guaranteed two, strategically it would better to hoard the spot distribute the wealth and let two other Feds choose him, especially since he has the potential to be formidable no matter where he goes, not your average 10-12 skater that you can slot in for 4th or 5th and hope for the best field for your own skaters.