Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 13, 2012.
The Senior Men's event at the Glacier Falls Summer Classic (Aug. 3-5 in Anaheim, Calif.) will include the 4th-15th place finishers in Senior men at 2012 US Nationals -- Mahbanoozadeh, Razzano, Carriere, Messing, Aaron, Brown, Dyer, Cassar, Hochstein, Dornbush, Mroz, Alex Johnson -- plus Philip Warren (Jr. bronze medalist), Emmanuel Savary, Sean Rabbitt, Andrew Gonzales, Canadians Jeremy Ten and junior champ Mitchell Gordon, and Chris Caluza (PHI).
Junior Men at Glacier Falls include the following International Selection Pool (ISP) skaters -- Nathan Chen, Lukas Kaugars, Jay Yostanto, Spencer Howe, Shotaro Omori -- plus Vincent Zhou and Jordan Moeller.
Dornbush, Hochstein, Warren, and Rabbitt are scheduled to start their season at Los Angeles Open in mid-July.
Just wondering, Sylvia, how do you find out the entries for club competitions? I've trying to find out for liberty and glacier for a couple of weeks now. Do you know which lady entries are at glaciers?
That's an incredible senior men's field. It's like a mini Nationals. I would love a live webcast
Does anyone know is Josh Farris is injured? He's not on the list for any summer competitions AFAIK, and where he's not competing on the GP, this seems worrisome/odd as the JGP season starts in August and summer competition performance usually plays a significant role in those assignments..
Sylvia, Dornbush is still listed as having filed entry papers at Glacier Falls? Of course, many a registered skater has failed to show up in the past.
If you have lots of time, and a knowledge of the coaches names of skaters you are interested in, you can go to the website, click on the coaches button, and check coach by coach, for what skaters they have who have filed paperwork.
Courtney Hicks will be at Glacier Falls.
Gracie Gold will not.
Indeed, that is an amazing lineup! Too bad I will have to miss it this year.
I've started competition threads for both Liberty and Glacier Falls in the 2012-13 Kiss and Cry forum, but if you don't have access (an FSU paid subscription or season pass is required now), I've posted some of the notable Glacier Falls Senior and Junior ladies entries in the U.S. Ladies thread in the Trash Can: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3613272#post3613272
I think you're worrying needlessly. AFAIK, neither Farris nor Jason Brown need to compete in a summer competition in order to be assigned to a JGP -- they just have to let USFS know where they will fulfil their "competition readiness" requirements and it doesn't have to be at one of the major summer competitions.
Currently Tammy Gambill is listed as coaching or co-coaching 6(!) men at Glacier Falls -- Dornbush, Philip Warren (also still working with John Nicks), Sean Rabbitt, Emmanuel Savary (I'm told he is still working with Frank Carroll), Shotaro Omori, and Vincent Zhou.
Adam Rippon tweeted:
Starting my short program this week. Time to get to work!
In accordance with the 2012 - 2013 ISU Grand Prix Announcement, Evan Lysacek has until August 1st to agree to terms with U.S. Figure Skating for his return to compete on the Grand Prix @ 2012 Skate America.
Come on USFS - get our Olympic Champ back in the mix for Sochi. Plushenko is back, time to resolve whatever overcooked differences you have with Evan. GET IT DONE!
I see absolutely no reasons for Lysacek coming back to the sport.
He's already won Olympics, he's extremely unlikely to win World or Olympics again.
If I was him, I'd rather do the new DWTS series.
Figures that Glacier Falls is the one competition with no webcast afaik.
It is his life. If Lysacek wants to put the time, effort, and expense into training to compete at the international level, then more power to him.
I'm not sure of that: the only language that changed from last year's GP announcement is the date, 1 August instead of 15 August. Lysacek is not an invited skater at this point.
Last year, on 2 September, more than two weeks later, the hosts made the following assignments in place of TBA's:
USFS: Mahbanoozadeh, Hubbell/Donahoe, Cannuscio/Lorello, Forte, Denney/Coughlin
SC: Balde, Harvey/Gagnon, Desanctis, Dube/Wolfe
Chinese Fed: Song, Huang/Zheng*, Zhu*, Sui/Han
*I have a note that these were made 31 August, but I don't have the printout.
Japanese Fed: Machida, Reed/Reed, Ishikawa
Russian Fed: Menshov, Pukash/Guierreiro, Stolbova/Klimov
For whatever reason, the French Fed filled or released its spots on 10 October (released one Paris spot, Zahorski/Miart, Marocco, Meite, Bessegher
There's nothing in the GP announcement that sets a deadline for filling TBA's, but there must be one, or I can't imagine that five of the six Feds would have filled them on the same date. Maybe the difference gives the ISU/Feds a chance to deal with all of the paperwork for the seeded and until-then invited skaters.
Well that's exactly my point. It's tons of time, effort and expense for most likely very little gain.
I do want to see what Evan could be bringing onto the scene actually which is why I'm all for his comeback!
It is YOUR opinion that Lysacek has no reason to comeback because he has very little to gain. However, if Lysacek is willing to put in the time, effort and expense to train to compete at the international level, then he obviously does not share your opinion.
Having seen Lysacek skate live nine times since the Olympics, I can say that his musicality and presentation keeps getting better and better. Therefore, I would definitely like to see what he can bring to competition ice.
What can he gain from it though?
Personal satisfaction possibly yes.
But in terms of further career advancement there doesn't really seem to be anything for him to gain.
When Plushenko came back for Vancouver, that landed him a number of sponsorship deals, ad appearances, etc. But skating has a much higher profile in Russia, I doubt the same would be the case with Lysacek.
I loved Evan and he was definitely one of my favs, but I don't want him to come back
I've posted Los Angeles Open (July 13-15 in Burbank) Senior/Junior men and other roster/schedule highlights in the U.S. Club Competitions thread in the 2012-13 Kiss and Cry forum: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3614458#post3614458
Senior men starting their season here include Richard Dornbush, Philip Warren, and Sean Rabbitt (all coached by Tammy Gambill), plus Grant Hochstein who is now representing SC of New York (this will be his first competition since he switched coaches to Peter Oppegard and Karen Kwan).
Nathan Chen will make his season debut here, and other notable Junior men are Jay Yostanto, Vincent Zhou, Spencer Howe, Shotaro Omori (all are JGP-eligible except for Zhou).
ETA: In my early projections of the possible Sectional fields in 2012-13, the Senior men appear to be fairly evenly spread out among the 3 sections (assuming there will be some international competition byes through Sectionals), and Junior men look especially competitive/deep in the Midwestern and Pacific Coast sections at the moment.
I am not going to speculate what Lysacek's motivation is or what he could gain from returning to competition. Motivation is something that is unique to each individual. Likewise, what Lysacek has to gain from returning to competition is unique to him because only he knows what his goals and expectations are. If Lysacek returns, he would have done so after weighing the pros and cons of returning to competitive skating and deciding that he had more to gain than to lose.
I wonder how ready skaters will be for this competition. Especially for those who finished their season accordingly with Worlds or Nationals.
What I meant was there was no point in him returning to skating, as far as his career advancement goes.
He has a lot to possibly lose and not really much to gain.
E.g. Boitano returned for 1994 Olympics and was not on the podium. Did he lose a lot and gained nothing because of his return? Personally I believe that skaters who have nothing to prove as they already are Olympic champions (plus WC and GPFC), return because they love to compete.
Boitano had pro competitions, made-for-TV cheezefests, and robust pro/pro-am tours to which to return.
Of the men I listed, only Dornbush competed past Nationals and 4CC was 5 months ago. "Ready" is a relative term in these summer competitions, and skaters have different goals early in the season. Most just aim to debut new programs and choreography and/or incorporate new skills into competition, so results/scores don't really matter too much at this point.
Boitano really wanted to be allowed to come back for '92 Olympics, but the campaign for non-eligible skaters to be able to return took longer than Boitano had hoped. Had BB been able to compete at '92 Olympics, I feel he would have won gold again and matched Dick Button's record, because in '92 Brian B was still the best in the world. Classy Brian was very supportive and happy for the Olympic success in '92 of his former teammate, Paul Wylie. Brian continued to press for the return, but by 1994, he was older and competing with injuries -- did not really stand a chance but gave a valiant if flawed effort.
Re Evan, whatever he wants to do, he will do. I tend to think he may not come back, but he's playing his cards close to his sleeve and may have some tricks remaining. However, I would prefer to watch the guys who have been in it since the last Olympics battle for Sochi gold. Johnny, Plush, and Evan (if he returns) for me will likely provide scintillating moments and they complicate the mix, but I view them more as comic relief. FS is such a complex comedy, drama, tragic opera anyways.
For me I enjoy watching Evan more on the dance floor.
Yes, and let´s not forget why those opportunities arose in 1994.... Not because of him competing at the Olympics, but because of a woman skater, LOL.
Tour of World Figure Skating Champions/Champions on Ice invited pros in starting in 1990. The Dick Button Invitational World Professional Championships started well before 1994, but they had a gap after the first and had multiple formats until the early 80's.
By 1994, Brian Boitano had won five World Professional championships in a row (1988-1992). Even if the Harding fiasco hadn't made skating more high profile, adding the made-for-TV crap and fortifying the tours, Boitano was firmly ensconced in pro skating royalty by the time of his comeback in 1994, which isn't comparable to Lysacek's; EL has few of the same opportunities.
Friendly request: Can we please focus on the topic of the U.S. men who are currently known to be competing in 2012-13? Feel free to start a Lysacek and/or Boitano thread for further debate and discussion.
If he comes back and wins, he can finally shake off the notion that he was a risk averse one hit wonder who only won because the better skaters faltered. However, I think the more likely scenario is that some better skaters will deliver and his return will ironically prove that he really isn't that good a skater even if clean.
Good suggestion, Sylvia! Evan and Brian B discussion to the Trash Can please! Until further real news from Evan re upcoming season materializes, let's focus on the U.S. guys who have laid their cards on the table.
Re-posting from the Programs/Choreography thread:
Here's hoping there will be reports, etc. on the Senior and Junior Men's events at L.A. Open! (refer to my post #221 above)
ETA link to Grant Hochstein's latest journal entry, dated June 23, in which he talks about his new programs and choreographers: http://www.figureskatersonline.com/granthochstein/journal-062312.html
USFS' latest "Club Spotlight" online feature is on 2011 U.S. Novice Men's silver medalist Jordan Moeller's fundraising event in April 2012 (also publicized in the 2012 U.S. Club & Benefit Shows thread): http://www.usfsa.org/Clubs.asp?id=415
ETA: Speaking of the Northbrook rink, here's a photo of Jason Brown from the Northbrook-On-Ice show on July 5, 2012. Related article on the rink's programs: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...northbrook-northbrook-20120705,0,734183.story
I think I have a new favourite picture of Jason...
Risk averse one hit wonder? It's not like he was a nobody who nobody expected to win. He won. Get over it. How much more would he need to win? Nothing. He's already won. And there's no convincing people who keep moving the goalposts.
I think he competes because he itches to skate (and compete), so even if he doesn't win he at least gets to do something he loves. It's not as if there's a big pro circuit for him to pursue skating with
For all his talk about the quad and X Games etc, he won both his titles without attempting one, while others who attempted them faltered. And while that's perfectly OK, I do think it's ironic.
For the record I think he was more deserving of his respective titles than Joubert or Plushenko.
I forgot to re-post this tidbit here from the U.S. Club Competitions forum in Kiss and Cry: At the Lake Placid Summer FS Championships 2 weekends ago, Stephen Carriere scored 184.27 total (60.92 SP, 123.35 FS) in his season debut -- he reportedly fell on his 3A in both programs, landed 3Lz+3T in his SP and 5 triples in his FS (didn't hear anything about his program music).
Top (known) summer competition total scores for the U.S. men to date:
Jason Brown 208.76 at Southport Summer Classic in mid-June
Stephen Carriere 184.27 at the Lake Placid FS comp. in late June
Harrison Choate 175.15 at Boston Open in June
Jordan Moeller 158.65 in April (Novice silver medalist at 2011 Nationals)
Ryan Hartley 150.83 in May (J9 at 2012 Nationals)
James Schetelich 142.84 in May (N2 at Nationals)
Jimmy Ma 137.02 in June (N5 at Nationals)
Oleksiy Melnyk 142.23 in June (N11 at 2012 Nationals)
Here's a nice local article on the current U.S. Intermediate Men's champ, Tomoki Hiwatashi, age 12, who is coached in the Chicago area by 1985 World champ Alexander Fadeev and his wife: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120712/news/707129961/
Hiwatashi is scheduled to compete in the Novice Men's event at Liberty next week.
So Plush who has participated in 57 senior competitions, winning gold in only 45 of them was always undeserving?. (sorry off thread but I couldn't let this one go by uncommented......)
Separate names with a comma.