Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 13, 2012.
Donnie Baldwin used to have a good 3A. Back when he was skating singles.
Well whether somebody is a native speaker or not, it would be nice to see people at least making an effort to communicate clearly.
Content wise I agree. But impact wise Abbott's program ruled Nationals.
I think USFS is likely to hold him up LESS if he doesn't get the 3a consistent before Sochi. Without the 3a, he isn't a "threat" to beat out skaters like Rippon, Miner, Dornbush and even Mahbanoozadeh and Razzano (considering their domestic PCS marks...), so there's no reason to hold him back. If he gets the 3a consistent, I doubt he will get so much Nationals inflation, because the USFS doesn't want him competing at Worlds and beating skaters like Abbott, Rippon, Miner, Dornbush et al. before 2014, because they seem to have DECIDED that these are the guys for the 2014 Olympic team, and because Jason is not "established" on the senior level, he will have to wait his turn. Of course, this is all presumption, but I tend to think it's the truth considering they seemingly forced Joshua Farris to stay on the junior circuit another season when he was clearly ready to move up...didn't want to risk the little 17 year old taking GP spots away from/beating the established favorites he's already arguably better than...
I hope that Dornbush is able to use the challenges of last season to pull it together and step up this coming season. He's got good technique, an understanding of choreography, and a seemingly solid coaching relationship. Has there been an explanation from Camp Dornbush as to what happened last season?? There's been lots of conjecture, I know, but didn't see any news articles or anything, or even rinkside gossip
Also, hoping that Farris can be a little more consistent. Don't care if he gets the Quad yet. There is time for that. Just consistent enough to climb higher on the US men's ladder and really establish himself nationally and internationally.
Abbott has broken my heart one time too many. I'm investing my interests in the young'uns
I don't know anything about Dornbush's situation last year, but remember that he was competing senior both nationally and internationally for the first time, AND he had the full weight of expectations on him to do well after his 9th place finish at 2011 Worlds. People often seem to underestimate the mental challenges of transitioning to compete successfully at the senior international level. It's not just about having the hardest jumps.
Doug Razzano's latest blog (dated May 31) mentions he's likely to compete at the Glacier Falls Summer Classic in Anaheim, CA in early August. Jason Brown and Jonathan Cassar are 2 who have registered for Glacier Falls so far. I think that should be another exciting men's comp. this year!
Hope Doug gets whatever he needs to help him establish himself among the top in the eyes of the USFSA.
Also curious about Cassar: Does he have plants to 'step-it-up' with a 3x? He does everything else so well thus far. And with good coaching, he might be able to spend time on that.
Thanks for the info Sylvia. Personally I think Ricky has the most "something" to be the one. He's too good to be having difficult times. Hope he comes back real strong!
ITA on all 3 accounts. Dornbush has the goods he just needs to refind the consistency he had back in the second half of the 2010-2011 season to get to the next level. His technique is solid, he has 3a-3t and 4t, I wish his jumps got a little more height, but that's just a nitpicky thing and it won't hold him back much on it's own.
I hope to Farris perform more FS like the one he delivered at JW, if he can start doing that, in addition to keeping up the SP consistency, the USFS may take him more seriously as a contender for the 4CC or senior World teams this spring. When he skates like he did at JW, he's right on par with the likes of a Rippon or Miner skating well. As for the quad, he's been training one for a few seasons now, so I'd like to see him trying it, not in the SP unless it's really consistent, but once the FS could be a good idea, he might as well where he's staying on the JGP again, it might serve as a way for him to challenge himself. The 4t he tried at Nationals was a pretty good attempt, so unless he's undergone a lot of physical changes in the offseason (I have to wonder if he will ever grow into those long long legs of his...), I think there's a good chance we will see him try it in his FS this season. Does anyone know about how his 4t is going in training? It's hard at that age, boys change a lot physically, so mastering these jumps can be tough, but I agree that it's not a huge deal if he doesn't produce it in competition this season, he's only 17 and his 3a is a beauty so there is still time, esp. considering Miner has never tried a quad in competition and Rippon is still struggling with the 3a, and Brown doesn't have either yet.
As for Jeremy, he's not getting any younger, and as much as I'd hate to see him retire without having ever won a World medal, that might just be how the cookie crumbles for him. I hope to see him in Sochi, but I honestly wouldn't mind if he was sent as the 2nd or 3rd member of the team, I think his time has maybe passed, though he is still lovely to watch.
I think some of Ricky's problems this past season was his growth spurt. I read an article about him being 6' 1 but all of his old bio stuff says he's 5' 8, 5' 9, and 5' 11.
Miner and Rippon are not the future of US Mens skating. If Jason gets his 3axel and Josh continues to improve i see both of them moving past Rippon and Miner pretty quickly. Dornbush is another matter he still has potential.
I dunno. I think Dornbush has all the potential of a piece of burned toast. Opinions always differ about these sort of things, though.
I will be a great next few years as these Men compete and show us who's best. The US is fortunate to have such depth.
Um there is no way he is 6'1". His isu and icenetwork bios both claim 5'8", the article about him being 5'11" was a mistake, he made a funny tweet about it, indicating that he is not close to being 5'11". It read:
Cool article a quick side not though, I am not 5'11" #SmallMistake #Puns
It's possible he maybe grew a little, but he's 20 so I doubt it was much, maybe an inch which would make him 5'9", but doubtful any more than that because he wouldn't have tweeted that if he was actually 5'11" or taller, and probably not even if he was 5'10" because that's just an inch off.
Jason and Joshua appeared to have grown some this season, mostly Joshua actually because he's apparently just 1 inch taller than Jason yet looks around 3 inches taller in every picture of them together, but that makes sense, they are both just 17. I'm pretty sure all the other senior men have their growing years behind them already.
Anyways I agree Dornbush has potential, he has the big tricks and is an animated performer. He needs to work on his PCS internationally, but good programs and consistency should help with that. He's also younger than Ross and Adam. Anyways I agree about Josh and Jason moving past those two, potentially 3, pretty easily, but I think USFS will try to prevent that from happening until after Sochi, unless they put up monster scores this season on the JGP, which is possible.
I'm not sure about Ricky being 6-1. I think that particular article was inaccurate.
You're waiting until these men burn out and then you'll enter and win it all?
In an interview Jason did in December last year he said he grew three inches over the previous off-season which put him at 5'7". I would put Josh, just looking at them in pictures together, at around 5'10" - so I hope for his sake he stops growing soon!
Both of them look like they've yet to fill in, though. Jason looks a little more filled-in than Josh, but says he's only 130 pounds . I reckon they'll both put on a few pounds over this off-season, and be better skaters for it.
At 17, I would expect they're getting close to being finished with the growing, or at least not have any more major growth spurts in their future.
Fan interview with Ross Miner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1HxluIJVbg
Idk, Josh still has very long legs for his body, so I wonder if he might not grow a good few more inches before he stops, perhaps it's just his build, though, as ever since he was a little kid he's had the long legs and short torso. In general both boys looked generally more mature and grown up, I noticed it most facially actually, last season as opposed to previous seasons so that's probably an indication that they are close to their "adult" size/look. I know Josh said in an interview from last season that he knew he needed more power to be competitive on a senior level, so I sort of equated that with speed and strength, so I would assume he's been working on developing that which would translate, most likely, to more muscle mass.
As for Jason, judging from how tiny he always was as a kid, I wouldn't be surprised if he's basically full grown now and will just be a small man. 130 pounds isn't much, but I doubt someone like Michal Brezina or Johnny Weir weighs much more than that.
It may his natural body type. Personally I think while his legs look very long, they're in proportion with the rest of his body now, and it looks good. He doesn't look as lanky anymore, but he could do with a little more muscle. Hopefully, as I said, he's only got an inch or two more at the most. Certainly his height doesn't seem to be interfering with his jump technique so far, so I don't want his luck to get pushed too far!
Agreed with the "grown-up" look to both of them. I thought with Jason it was especially noticeable in his hands and feet, too - they always looked oversized on him in the older pictures/videos. Josh looks like he's grown into his face, or the other way around, too. I wonder how many girls at his rink ~noticed~ as well!
Was watching Jason's JW SP again this morning and now have to agree that I think you're right, he might be done. I mean, at least his costumes won't be size "pipsqueak" anymore, but he's never going to be tall, obviously. Maybe it's just an illusion created by the fact that he tends to wear more form-fitting costumes but he looks a lot more muscular and developed than Josh, particularly across the shoulders, and the, erm, rear end (NOT that I'm looking ).
I have to say though...I'm pulling for Jason to keep the ponytail. I think it suits him, just as Josh's current haircut suits him too. Also, Josh should just wear blue. Forever. Always.
I think plenty of girls have noticed Josh's "transformation" over the past year, apparently all the local girls at JW followed him around and were basically like his biggest fans after he won silver, even though they barely knew him. Blue looks good because he has blue eyes. But I agree about his face, he used to have a round "pumpkin head" so to speak, and now it's a nice oval shape. I liked his long hair at JW, but it appears he cut it recently, he posted some pictures of him at IKEA with shorter hair, but it still looked nice, and actually, he looked a bit more built in the upper body. But I agree, he just looks long legged now, whereas a couple years ago, he looked a bit gangly/awkward, but it actually makes for nice lines and suits his skating...I really noticed it when watching him skate right after Han Yan who is much more compact in build, and Josh looked so much more elegant, and I'm sure some of it was due to his long limbs. If Josh does grow a lot taller though...watch out for more Lysacek comparisons ...oh goody!
Jason's ponytail suits his facial features, he's got a long narrow face, and the slicked back hair, oddly enough, I think makes him more masculine and draws attention to his nice eyebrows (lol I blame Johnny for thinking about eyebrows now...), and his chiseled jawline. So I agree, it's a good look and he should keep it, plus it's kind of his signature 'do. Jason is very strong, you can tell from looking at him, even though his weight is low. He does appear to have more lower body strength compared to upper body though, which may be why he's struggling with the 3ax. Oddly enough, Patrick is sort of a similar build, around the same height and he has very strong legs but isn't particularly broad shouldered or built in his upper body, 3a is not his best friend, but he sure has a nice 4t . Hopefully with a little more growing up and muscle building through the shoulders and upper body, that jump will come more easily to Jason. But he's already grown a lot in the past few years, it's easy to forget just how tiny he used to be, so I'd be surprised if he grew any more than an inch or two at this point, that would just be a lot of significant growing years! 5'7"-5'8" is a pretty common height for a male figure skater and a lot of the more successful ones seem to be in this range.
@SarahandDrew tweeted earlier today:
"Just talked to Jason Brown - news coming soon in our blog on @icenetwork. And, for the record, Jason says he's 5'6" + a bit. #onlinedebate"
Oooooooooh. Another skater that reads FSU?
Hmmm. Well, that would at least explain why Josh is still listed as 5'8" and yet seems significantly taller. Pretty sure he's not 5'8" but he could be like 5'9" like his ISU bio says (175 cm is 5'9" right?).
Also, according to the recent icenetwork article, Harrison Choate is going to Harvard? I could have sworn it was Dartmouth, but maybe he got off the wait list or something? In any event, he is deferring a year, but Christina is going in the fall. Wonder if she will take a year off the following season to try and make the Olympic team? If Choate even has Olympic hopes realistically 2018 is the earliest he could make the team, so I'm kind of confused why he's deferring now - maybe he's trying to make the JGPF?
It was Dartmouth originally, but apparently he changed his mind at the last minute and decided to attend Harvard instead and defer until the fall of 2013.
Why are all these skaters so damn SMART? Armin choosing btwn Dartmouth and UPenn, Rachael btwn Stanford and Princeton, Christina btwn Harvard and Stanford, Harrison btwn Harvard and Dartmouth...then Emily Hughes and Blake Rosenthal both go to Harvard, Katrina Hacker goes to Princeton, Curran Oi to MIT. Guess "school and skating" go hand-in-hand?
It's like an involuntary reaction. *video shows closeup of Josh* I don't blame those girls
Ah, he cut it?! I don't know if that's the end of the world for him though, as long as he doesn't go razor-short it will look okay. Must scour Josh's Twitter account as I seem to have missed those photos though!
Josh's length creates a really lovely line for him, which is the first thing I will jump on if people persist with Lysacek comparisons! Josh is super-elegant, and he looks like he has control of his limbs even if they are long. Which I think so far is the major difference. (That and Josh's 3A is actually a 3A, haha.) So I think even if Josh does grow a lot taller, he will likely still have that control, whereas Lysacek just looks...flaily.
I swear Jason straightens his hair for competitions. It looks really curly/wavy in practice videos, and much lighter in colour. But in competitions it's dead straight and a bit darker. It's a good look though. I wouldn't mind seeing it out to see how long it actually is, I'm picking about shoulder-length since he wear the ponytail quite low. I think it suits his overall look, too - the black skin-tight costume for the short program last season, for example - the ponytail only seemed to add to that.
Well if I didn't want Lysacek comparisons for Josh, I CERTAINLY do not want Chan comparisons for Jason Hopefully Jason works all the kinks out and manages to get the 3A since he's indicated before he won't start on the quad until he's got a 3A.
I know what you mean about his growth - I found some pictures of him from a couple of years ago, standing with Josh, and I nearly died, Jason was so tiny! They must have started wondering if he would ever grow!
You mean he lied to the Chicago Tribune last year? Or maybe he's falling into the old Yagudin trap of adding an extra few inches to his height. Of COURSE you're 5'9", Yags dear.
But more importantly: WHAT NEWS WHAT NEWS WHAT NEWS?! *falls over* *camps out on icenetwork* *praying to Plushenchrist like crazy that it's a certain piece of very good news*
It still looks good, it's not as short as it was in previous seasons, mostly looks like he got some cut off the sides. And "flaily" is Evan's signitiature characteristic, and honestly idk if it's even related to his height, I mean, Plush is the king of flaily and he's not even tall. Plus Evan skated to FireBIRD the Olympic season, so it was just asking for him to fail those arms...erm, wings .
Jason probably does straighten his hair for competitions, this is figure skating after all . It's probably shoulder-length, the pony is short so I doubt it's much longer than that.
News is probably, how the 3a is coming, plans for the upcoming season, why he's staying on the JGP another season, and any shows or comeptitions he's doing this summer. I doubt by news they mean intense, shocking news like he has a new coach! Though I guess it's possible...maybe a jump coach for the 3a?
In any event, I think quite a few skaters embellish their heights. Like I somehow doubt Johnny Weir is actually 5'9", or that Patrick Chan is 5'8", Oda is probably not even the 5'5" he claims, and Joubert despite being so manly I have trouble believing is really almost 5'11". It is what it is. My votes for height: Jason 169 cm, Josh 176-177 cm, Ricky 173-174 cm.