U.S. Men 2012-13 pre-season news & updates

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 13, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Here's a new article on 2012 US junior silver medalist Timothy Dolensky who will make his senior debut this summer (SP at Broadmoor Open in June and both programs at Skate Detroit in July): http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/05/dolensky-working-hard-to-continue-windfall/
    (ETA: Just noticed the pun in the article's title - "Windfall" was the title of his self-composed SP.)

    Practice clip of Armin Mahbanoozadeh's quad toe loop from late April: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjY4zaWW244

    Richard Dornbush tweeted this practice clip of his quad toe last week: http://v.coachseye.com/i9AX
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  2. YukiNieve

    YukiNieve Active Member

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  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Happy for Richard! I can't watch the clip, so how did it look?
     
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Very effortless-looking, with good flow out on the landing. Did you hit the play arrow button on the bottom left corner of the video?

    Ross Miner, Keegan Messing (S7), and Harrison Choate (J4) are 3 of the Senior men registered to compete at Liberty in July.

    Ross Miner, Stephen Carriere and Harrison Choate excerpts from the SC of Boston's "Ice Chips" show article (dated April 2, 2012 - blog article link is posted in the Ice Chips show thread):
    Harrison Choate has decided to defer college for a year and continue competing -- he is hoping for a JGP assignment and already has tested up to Senior in the US.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  5. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Sounds a lot like Armin. Wasn't there someone else who deferred Dartmouth for skating? Getting to/from New Hanover just about puts the kibosh on serious competitive skating, imo.
     
  6. jeffisjeff

    jeffisjeff Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the Choate dorms are named after them?
     
  7. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    Or, Choate-Rosemary Hall?
     
  8. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Well-Known Member

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    Would love to see Keegan and Ross at Liberty, but that is a little out of reach for me. Wonder if Keegan is going to Skate Detroit this year? He did Liberty and Detroit last year to get his programs in front of judges with just one trip to the lower 48. He was such a nice young man, I enjoyed meeting him.

    Looking forward to seeing the summer comps!
     
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    GP Initial Assignments -- Thanks to Sylvia for posting the links in the GP Announcement Thread :respec:

    Two: Abbott (USA/France), Miner (Canada/Japan), Rippon (China/Japan), Dornbush (Russia/Japan), Weir (Russia/France)

    One: Razzano (USA)
     
  10. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    WHYY is Farris not doing GP? Isn't his goal to go to 2014 Olympics? Doesn't he know his score from JW is high enough to be medaling at senior GP events? That it is about as high or higher than the SB of some of the "top" US senior men (Miner, Rippon, Dornbush...). He already has 3a. This will be his 5th season on JGP...

    Ditto for Brown. Though it makes a little more sense for him because he hasn't tried 3a in competition yet and he said in an article a season or two back he wasn't going to rush to seniors internationally (just like Lysacek didn't :p).

    In any event, JGP should at least be exciting with Farris, Brown, Chen, Han Yan, Tanaka, Hino, Uno, etc.
     
  11. PinkFeathers

    PinkFeathers Active Member

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    Better chance of getting to JW instead of SW? The new rule might have had something to do with it. Maybe if we'd managed to get 3 spots for the men back, it'd be a different story. Betting on a maybe over betting on a definite spot is a pretty risky move right now.
     
  12. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    HUGE tactical error IMO. He's definitely on a level to compete at GP now. Hell, he'd probably be a solid bet to medal at US Nationals this season. Can you imagine if Josh and Jason ended up medalling at US Nats? There'd be a huge amount of egg on face. USFSA would have to face the idea of sending them to Sr Worlds with no Senior experience.

    Jason I can understand, he was always going to be a bit more touch-and-go with going up because of the 3A. But Josh is training a QUAD. It just doesn't make any sense.

    Josh is good enough to kick some serious backside at Nationals and earn a place at Sr Worlds. If he strings it together at Nationals he could medal for sure. That's what I don't understand. He's already got an SB that's equal to or better than a heap of the "established" senior men!
     
  13. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Josh has yet to string it together at Nationals. He competed at Nationals last year; however, his 16th place finish was not what I would call 'kicking some serious backside."
     
  14. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    I didn't say that he had, only that he could. If he does string it together this year, several of the Seniors could be looking very silly.

    His JW proved that Nationals was a blip.
     
  15. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Time will tell if he can have the same success at the senior level that he has had on the junior level. However, to date, he has competed at two senior nationals with poor finishes in both. (However, he gets a pass on the last place finish in 2011 b/c of injury) If Josh continues to improve, he has the potential to medal at nationals. However, many of the senior men, that you love to cut down on a regular basis :rolleyes: have gone out an proved it on the ice at the SENIOR level.

    Josh is a very talented skater. Therefore, I don't understand why his uber fans feel the need of to constantly cut down other skaters in an attempt to build him up. :slinkaway
     
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  16. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    I am not neccessarily cutting down anybody. I think quite highly of Jeremy Abbott and enjoy his skating. It's just that I don't believe the current US Senior men are that amazing. Although at least they are stronger than the current state of the Russian Senior men.

    Josh's score from JW would have placed him sixth at the last Nationals, one point behind Razzano, and ahead of such raved-about skaters as Brandon Mroz and Richard Dornbush - who, if I'm not mistaken, has a GP assignment. (Incidentally, Jason also beat Dornbush and Mroz, while leaving the 3A out of both programs.)

    Has he done this yet? No. But my point is that he is CLEARLY capable of racking up enough points for a high finish at Nationals WITHOUT a quad. If he can get the 4T working for him this season, he could be looking at a medal. While still competing Juniors. Bit silly, isn't it?
     
  17. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    No, it is not silly for him to compete in the JGP. He will earn more ISU points by skating in the JGP ( 2JGP events + potential JGP final) than only competing in one senior GP event. There is no need to rush the move to the Senior GP. Several years ago, Lysacek finished 5th at US Nationals but he competed in the JGP the following season. He won his 2 GP events, won the JGP final, and finished 3rd at nationals. On his first trip to the WC, he won bronze which automatically qualified him for 2 Senior GP events for the Olympic season. Therefore, Lysacek's patience paid off. Thus, Josh could benefit by competing in JGP with a focus on gaining consistency.
     
  18. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    I hadn't considered the ranking situation. That's a good point. I guess my main concern is a potential Olympic season and working towards Sochi, since he has said before he's aiming for there.

    Following Senior-age-eligible Juniors is exhausting. So many things to consider.
     
  19. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    He can still work toward Sochi by competing JGP the season before the 2014 Olympic season. Lysacek worked toward earning his spot on the 2006 Olympic team by competing in the Junior GP the season prior to the Olympic season.
     
  20. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I think Evan did gp in the 04-5 season
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Yes, Lysacek was 5th at both Skate America and Cup of Russia in the fall of 2004.

    Dornbush won the JGP Final in December 2010 and placed 2nd in Senior at 2011 Nationals/made the World team in his second attempt, so he didn't suffer for having skated as a junior internationally earlier in the season. He brought it at Nationals, and that's usually what U.S. skaters have to do in order to make the World (or Olympic) team.
     
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it, if Josh and Jason moved up, they'd be looking at:

    Best Case Scenario: 2 GPs, 4CC, and Worlds
    (I highly doubt either would qualify for GPF first year out and further, they might have to WIN nationals, or at least be top 2, to get 4CC AND Worlds, 4CC they could probably get with a 3rd or 4th place finish)

    Worst Case Scenario: 1 GP

    By staying junior

    Best Case Scenario: 2 JGPs, JGPF, 4CC, Worlds

    Worst Case Scenario: 2 JGPs, JW
    (Likely, of course, should either bomb his 1st JGP, there's a chance he might not get a 2nd, but there aren't that many JGP eligible men this season so I sort of doubt they'd only get 1 JGP considering their results last season. JW is also not certain but their main competition is Chen, Choate, and Yostanto, and they can both qualify along with one of these guys, so in order for both to get knocked off the team, all 3 would have to skate better at Nationals and/or on the JGP which I don't think is likely).

    Josh is ready to compete on the GP but he probably doesn't want to risk just getting 1 senior GP as his only international assignment all season. He knows his SB from JW is really high and how it stacks up against the other men, I'm assuming his goal is to have a solid JGP season, make it to and medal at/win the JGPF, then try to medal at Nationals and make the World and/or 4CC teams. But, should he struggle at Nats again, this way he can at least go to JW. He saw what happened with Ricky Dornbush in 10-11 and he knows he has the goods to do the same, so might as well stay on the JGP again, try and get the 4t out in competition when there's less pressure, get to compete internationally 2 or 3 times this fall, and set himself up as a medal contender at Nationals, with a likely JW assignment as a fallback plan. Same goes for Jason who probably wants to get his 3a out in competition and knows he can probably still qualify for the JGPF if he doesn't have much success with it.

    I think maybe if they didn't change the rules regarding going to JW after having competed in senior internationals not being allowed, maybe their decisions would have been different, but both Josh and Jason have the huge advantage of their young age. This year, they were the only 2 senior men competing at nationals that were young enough for JW. Josh was 16th but got JW anyways because the next guy in line was Phillip Warren who still scored 15 points less than Josh (in the junior event, granted) despite Josh's nervy outing there. Next year, Choate will be the only additional senior man age eligible for JW (unless is Yostanto moving up?), so even assuming wunderkind Nathan Chen is a lock for the JW team, that still leaves a spot for both of them to go so long as they can beat Choate and Yostanto at Nationals (which they should be able to do easily), and that's if they don't get a better offer in the form of 4CC and/or senior worlds.
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    These are the 30 men currently listed in USFS' International Selection Pool (ISP):

    Received initial GP assignments (6 men):
    Jeremy Abbott: Skate America/France
    Adam Rippon: China/Japan
    Ross Miner: Canada/Japan
    Richard Dornbush: Russia/Japan
    Johnny Weir-Voronov: Russia/France
    Douglas Razzano: Skate America
    1 TBA at Skate America

    Senior B candidates (12):
    Evan Lysacek
    Armin Mahbanoozadeh S4
    Stephen Carriere S6
    Keegan Messing S7
    Max Aaron S8
    Scott Dyer S10
    Jonathan Cassar S11
    Grant Hochstein S12
    Brandon Mroz S14
    Alexander Johnson S15
    Timothy Dolensky J2
    Philip Warren J3

    JGP/ISU Junior age-eligible (12):
    Jason Brown JGPF1 /S9 / JW3 (4 JGPs + 1 Final in 2 seasons)
    Joshua Farris JGPF3 / S16 / JW2 (6 JGPs + 2 Finals in 3 seasons)
    Nathan Chen J1
    Harrison Choate J4 (1 JGP last season)
    Lukas Kaugars J5
    Jay Yostanto J7 (1 JGP last season)
    Troy Tomasello J8
    David Wang J11 (1 JGP last season)
    James Schetelich N2
    Spencer Howe N3
    Kevin Shum N4
    Shotaro Omori PC-J5 (2 JGPs last season)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    JGP/ISU Junior age-eligible (12):
    Jason Brown JGPF1 /S9 / JW3 (4 JGPs + 1 Final in 2 seasons)
    Joshua Farris JGPF3 / S16 / JW2 (6 JGPs + 2 Finals in 3 seasons)
    Nathan Chen J1
    Harrison Choate J4 (1 JGP)
    Lukas Kaugars J5
    Jay Yostanto J7 (1 JGP)
    Troy Tomasello J8
    David Wang J11 (1 JGP)
    James Schetelich N2
    Spencer Howe N3
    Kevin Shum N4
    Shotaro Omori PC-J5 (2 JGPs)

    Yeah see this is why Farris and Brown are likely staying junior. Apart from Chen (and even Chen considering he is so little and has no 3a yet, or well maybe he does now, who knows) none of these guys are stiff competition to steal 2nd JGPs away from them or knock them out of the running for the JGPF or the JW team. They can face off with the likes of Miner, Rippon, and Dornbush at Nationals and if they beat them there, I don't know why the USFS wouldn't send them to senior Worlds. So might as well stay junior for the fall and keep that safety net.
     
  25. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    Wheeeeee! :cheer2:
     
  26. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Happy that Weir is really coming back, but giving 2 events to the uncontrollable boy whose style and speaking USFS once despised when he hasn't competed in 2 years says volumes about how USFS viewed the current state of US men.

    Surprised about Lysacek. Perhaps they will test him at some senior B beforte giving him Skate America?

    How is it that Armin got 0 GP events but Dornbush got 2 and Razzano got 1? Wasn't Armin 4th at Nationals?

    If Farris and Brown stayed at the Junior GPs, they can still go to 4CCs and Worlds if they skated well enough at Nationals right?
     
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  27. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    He gets two events as a comeback skater, but considering the state of US men's skating, this is a good thing for the USFS. At the very least he's attention-getting.
     
  28. morqet

    morqet Well-Known Member

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    US Nationals don't factor into GP assignments at all, apart from maybe being a factor for host picks which are at the discretion of each federation. Dornbush got his through his World Ranking (20th), and Razzano has a higher seasons best than Armin which may be why he got one of the host picks for SA.
     
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe Lysacek isn't coming back at all. He could have gotten 2 assignments if he wanted. I bet he won't compete this season. He already won Worlds and the Olympics and there's no chance, really, he can repeat as either now.


    And yes, Farris and Brown should still be considered for 4CC and Worlds because they skate at the senior level at Nationals. Ricky Dornbush went to Worlds in 2011 after competing on the JGP in the fall. It might make things a little tougher, but in theory they should have as good a shot as any other man competing at US nationals to make the World team.
     
  30. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    GP does not have anything to do with US nationals but when GPs were having 12 spots each, USFsA was able to get a GP for their top 5 US national finishers. NOW thatwill change of course. So I can see why people still think top US finishers should get a gp