U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Exactly my point- he's hit the wall of injury that affects his skating. It seems Lysacek is in the same boat.

    Is it training the quad? Are the years of training just adding up? Are they over-training? Whatever the cause, it's a shame that the US's best men have had this happen now.

    I hope Jeremy and Evan will be healed and ready to go for Nationals (and hopefully Worlds)
     
  2. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    I suspect overtraining in Jeremy's case. He talked a lot in his interview about training hard and then having an inexplicable inability to perform at his event. That's classic overtraining.

    Of course, I have no idea what's really going on. It's just what I yelled at the tv when he was interviewed after Skate America. :lol:
     
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    That camel change camel is spectacular. Totally +3 - worthy.

    I am confused about his long program layout. He usually does a 3flip3toe but with the 3flip being his very last element in the program and with him not even attempting a combination with the flip at Cup of China, I wonder where his third combination or 3/3 is supposed to be. Is Arutuniain pushing him to do a 3axel3toe? :eek:
     
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think the 3s in the beginning is supposed to be a 4s, and then his lutz is supposed to be 3lz-1/2lo-3s like last season, but when he triples the opening sal, he probably has a backup plan to change the lutz combo to 3lz-2t-2lo so he doesn't Zayak but still gets the 3 jump combo in. In this case he could have gone for that combo anyway where he popped his first 3a, but he probably trains to do the 3-2-2 combo every time he triples the first 3s just to prevent an Oda, regardless of what might happen on the 3a. Considering he did 1a-2t in the beginning, I assume he isn't going for a 3a-3t but just a 3a-2t and then probably plans to do 3f-3t in the 2nd half of the program.

    All speculation, of course. But last season he had a smart layout with 3f-3t, 3lz-1/2lo-3s, and Rippon 3lz all in the 2nd half of his program to serve as a buffer for not having a consistent 3a or quad. And I do recall at WTT when he did only a 3s in the beginning of the program, the lutz combo became 3lz-2t-2lo instead. I don't think it's that unusual to have a safety net plan like this and think that's probably what he did here. The 3f is the last jump so maybe he plans to add the 3t to a different jump, perhaps the 2a, earlier in the program but still in the 2nd half. It would be cool/impressive to do a 3-3 as your last jumping pass though so that could be the plan.
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I like Miner very much, but he does a lot of stroking to gain speed, and in my opinion, doresn't carry it as efficiently as Abbott.

    I think Abbott is in the top handful of men when it comes to using his edges and knees to gain and carry speed, and his lean over the edge is second to none.
     
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  6. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Well-Known Member

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    There was a report of Adam doing 3A-3T in the report about the collision:

    " wish speed recovery Nang Song and Adam! Adam did a good practice today landed 3a-3t, several 3a. The program he skated in the morning looked nice and fresh. I think he was very affected by this crash mentally and physically. Voronov said at presser that he and his skating was affected too because he saw how it happened"

    It seems like 3A-3T might be part of the plan.

    The free skate seems to be a departure from the type of program he usually does - not a "pretty-pretty" program at all.
     
  7. Pretty Vegas

    Pretty Vegas Well-Known Member

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    I am really looking forward to seeing how Ricky and Johnny do this weekend. They are in a very tough field - so it should be interesting.
     
  8. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the LP is a different style. I've only seen it once, but there were a lot of hand gestures in the choreography that annoyed me. It looked like he was rolling the dices at one point but at other times I was puzzled; I couldn't tell what the gestures represented in the Mad Men era.

    I know Michael Seibert has worked on shows like Skating with Celebrities before, but has he done any competitive programs before?

    I do like Adam's shorter hairstyle and the non-fussy approach to his costumes this year.
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Armin Mahbanoozadeh skates #3 and Douglas Razzano #16 at Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria today (approx. 3:30 pm Eastern start time) - link to the live stream is posted in the event thread in Kiss and Cry as well as in the TV Alerts forum.
     
  10. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    I give up... at this point I don't see how we can bring home three spots :eek:

    I love them all and yet I want to :wall: .
     
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    According to the protocols at Rostelecom Cup, Ricky nails the 4T only to completely bail on the 3z-3t. :wall:
     
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Oh ye (all) of little faith! ;)

    ETA: I think the U.S. guys are all setting individual goals to improve their international results/standings, but many of them have yet to execute under the pressure of Senior Grand Prix competition... but that's what early season competitions are for and about.

    Razzano won silver and Mahbanoozadeh bronze in Graz today (neither landed a quad in the FS but quads aren't everything :p).
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  13. flyingsit

    flyingsit Well-Known Member

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    His lean over the edge (love the description, by the way) reminds me very much of Stephane Lambiel.
     
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  14. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but what were their scores? I'm guessing low 200s. To get 3 spots at the Olympics we are going to need at least one guy capable of scoring 240+ and at present it seems like the only hopes of that are Jeremy and Ricky IF they skate clean with quads and that is a huge if...

    ETA yup 200 and 204. Not exactly encouraging scores, though maybe if they both had messy FS, it would make me feel a little better. Interesting how the US man with the highest ISU SB thus far in the season is 13 year old Nathan Chen :p
     
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    My post had nothing to do with/say about 3 spots to the Olympics.
     
  16. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    I agree it is counterproductive to be negative, but still, it is a tad disappointing that the two, who have both competed at previous competitions this season including Skate America, didn't do a bit better with non-quad elements. Certainly Liebers made his own mistakes, yet managed to do enough to gain a far higher FS score that either American.
     
  17. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    The US men haven't had a promising newcomer to the GP to shake up the scene. The "new" US man this season is the returning Johnny; Evan hasn't come back; right now, there's no leader. The energy level among US men is bound to be a bit...languid. Perhaps Josh would skate well at US nationals and get sent to 4CC or something to boost the energy level.

    I wish USFS helped Josh get 2 gps, not just for Josh's sake. You need to promote new comers to inject new energy to your program, esp. when your top skaters have been the same people for a while.

    On the up side, thanks to several rejuvenated veterans and a newbie Gracie Gold, the energy level among US ladies has changed, and I'm getting excited about US ladies again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
  18. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Josh I think could have gotten 2 GPs honestly, between the withdrawals and the fact that Adam, Ross, and Ricky all also only had one guarantee and managed to each get a 2nd. I also wish Messing and Aaron had been more seriously considered for a host spot, or that USFS spread the wealth out at competitions like 4CC more, that way skaters like Keegan and Max could manage to get an ISU SB score so that they could be considered for GPs. It's not that they aren't good enough and can't earn the scores to get them, it's that they haven't competed in events giving SB scores since aging out of juniors!

    I have high hopes for Josh. His JGP scores didn't seem that great when he earned them, but it's now November and those numbers are still among the highest any of the other guys have put up on the senior GP events, and with one less element too. Maybe if he can win the JGPF convincingly, a la Dornbush in 2010, USFS will start to take him more seriously and maybe send him to 4CC should he skate well at Nats and land on the podium (or even maybe like 5th or something). He could still do JW afterwards if he wanted to, as well. Kovtun will be steep competition at JGPF, but even if he doesn't hit there, maybe it will mean he'll finally skate well at Nats.

    Interested in seeing if anyone puts up exciting numbers at Sectionals this weekend.

    I think the frustrating thing with the US men is, there's no shortage of talent, quite the opposite actually, it just seems like the strongest guys at the moment are either inconsistent, have their age working against them physically, still competing on the JGP, or stuck on the senior B circuit due to limited GP and ISU championship spots.

    Anyways, not expecting much from Johnny, but I still really like Ricky and hope he can pull up lots in the FS and show his Finlandia FS was not a fluke!
     
  19. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    I was totally surprised by Dornbush's performance. Everything was going nice, going great, I even kind of liked it and then whoops I just skated off a cliff. Which was a shame. Hope he has a better free skate tonight.

    As for Weir, well, uh...I liked the second part of the music? And he still has nice lines and flow.
     
  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Who has been named to replace Johnny at TEB?
     
  21. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    He withdrew a couple of days before the start, and the French Fed is not obligated to fill his spot. They could, but they haven't, at least yet.
     
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Here are the 12 Sectional qualifiers to 2013 Nationals (total scores included):

    Easterns 1-4: Stephen Carriere 204.92, Harrison Choate 190.84, Wesley Campbell 189.68, Grant Hochstein 186.48;
    Midwesterns 1-4: Max Aaron 233.58, Alexander Johnson 223.18, Brandon Mroz 200.32, William Brewster 171.13;
    Pacifics 1-4: Keegan Messing 201.98, Jonathan Cassar 183.00, Philip Warren 180.31, Sean Rabbitt 170.59.

    The top 3 Junior Men qualifying scores from Sectionals: 12-year-old Vincent Zhou 196.33, Nathan Chen 193.05 (he omitted 3A & 3Lz from his programs since he is still recovering from his injury), Jordan Moeller 188.70.
     
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Max Aaaron's score is really high. And he's shown his 4s and 3a are really consistent. I hope he is seriously considered for Worlds if he skates well at Nats and not kept down in the standings due to politics and PCS inflation for favorites. We really need a guy who can hit the quads and 3as consistently, and most of those considered contenders for the World team have issues with at least one of those jumps if not both. If Max can score like he has been lately, he could be mid-lower top 10 at Worlds and then maybe we could get 3 spots if Abbott or Lysacek could deliver. I even wonder if Max could jump his way on or near the podium in Gatchinski or Brezina-like fashion...
     
  24. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    I'm a fan of Max's but I think if he can place in the top 5 at Nationals it will be a great step/jump :encore: forward for him. His style marks will hold him back IMO at 2013 Nat'ls.
    He's becoming the most consistent jumper among the US men & I'm excited for him. However, if either Dornbush or Miner can land just one quad in either their sp or lp at Nationals I think they'll place ahead of Aaron. And it goes without saying that if Abbott skates well he will too.
     
  25. skaters04

    skaters04 Active Member

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    At Pacifics, Messing hit a quad toe in his short program (which overall was pretty good), and then did triple axel combo, quad toe and triple lutz in the opening of his free skate, but messed up the landings on all of them (and the lutz was to be a triple-triple). While he "didn't want to make excuses, "he and his coach both acknowledged it was a really bad skate for him, but he he had just returned from Nice about a week ago (where he won with a score about, I think, 15-20 points higher -- which would make sense, because he left at least that many points on the ice with sloppy landings at Pacifics) and he'd been "on the road" for a couple of months and was a bit tired.

    Zhou looked really, really good in the junior men's final, very confident, while Chen was very good, too, but did leave out a couple of jumps. But both of them are still VERY tiny -- don't know what they'll be like when they mature more, but both are very confident skaters. Zhou just turned 12 and Chen was 13 in May, so both are quite a ways away from being senior international age eligible.
     
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  26. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Is Zhou actually that tiny? He looked quite a bit bigger than Chen, who is obviously tiny but also a year and a half older and going through a growthspurt right now, so considering that, Zhou might not actually be that small for his age. Chen is what, 4'9", and Zhou seems a couple inches taller at least, so if he's 4'11" or 5' at barely 12 that's not that small, and he therefore could grow early and be a more normal size/mostly grown in the few years it takes him to become eligible for seniors. Chen was clearly affected by his injury, so Nationals will be interesting, Zhou won here (barely), but we know Chen can do a lot better. Shotaro is also quite strong but didn't skate well at Sectionals. It will be interesting to see who steps up and makes the JW team. I'm also interested to see what happens at the JGPF with Brown and Farris, Yan is not there but Kovtun and Jin have quads.
     
  27. skaters04

    skaters04 Active Member

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    I talked to Zhou briefly after the event and he said he was 4-9.
     
  28. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Okay so he is tiny. It might have been the costume choice that made him look taller than Chen, or maybe he's just not as skinny in build. Definitely a lot of growing to do for both of them. I hope Nathan's injury heals, apparently the type of injury he has is very painful and can take a while to correct itself? Hope his symptoms aren't too bad!
     
  29. johnet

    johnet New Member

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    Oh that surprises me a little bit because his personal website listed him as 4'10'' (http://govincentzhou.wordpress.com/profile-4/) and that was updated like months ago, so I kind of figured that he must be a little bit taller than that now.
     
  30. johnet

    johnet New Member

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    I remember seeing an update on his website saying that his withdraw was due to an ankle injury which he aggravated just before JGP Croatia. But the message also mentioned he has "Osgood-Chlatter knee pain." But that doesn't seem to be the reason he withdrew. Since in the recent sectional competition he didn't use any of the Lutz jump, I'm guessing he is still recovering from the ankle injury.