U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    This is what I'm hoping for, with Farris and Aaron as alternates. I agree with those that said who cares about 3 spots at this point. Abbott, Lysacek, and Weir are no guarantees to get the 3rd spot back so might as well start promoting the new guys, not the old ones.
  2. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    I think Hanyu has the right idea with doing footwork into the quad and the 3-3 later on. I think the quad in combo is too much pressure maybe, although I don't know if the footwork is even harder to accomplish for some?
  3. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I took a glance at the ISU best list for this season. The US men aren't in such bad shape as I thought.


    1. 262.35 Patrick CHAN CAN

    2. 261.03 Yuzuru HANYU JPN

    3. 253.94 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP

    4. 251.51 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN

    5. 251.44 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN

    6. 238.34 Nobunari ODA JPN

    7. 236.92 Tatsuki MACHIDA JPN

    8. 235.37 Ross MINER USA

    9. 230.68 Takahito MURA JPN

    10. 227.63 Jeremy ABBOTT USA

    When you only include the top 3 JPN men (which will be the case at Worlds), Ross and Jeremy are 6th and 7th respectively. That totals 13 pts. and 3 spots if things just keep going like this. Of course, Brezina and Amodio have really underperformed thus far and we can't rule them out but the US isn't doing too badly (for some reason, in my mind, it was worse)
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Whoa, olympic! can you please reformat your post?

    ETA:

    FWIW, here are the top 3 FS international scores among the U.S. men so far this season:
    168.80 Dornbush (Finlandia) 92.12 TES
    161.96 Miner (NHK Trophy) 86.74 TES
    156.58 Aaron (Salt Lake Sr B) 83.58 TES

    Next, these are the 9 men who've scored 140+ in a FS internationally, ranked by their TES score:
    Dornbush (NHK Trophy) 78.29 TES
    Mahbanoozadeh (Salt Lake Sr B) 76.43
    Carriere (Nebelhorn) 75.93
    Farris (JGP Lake Placid) 75.49
    Rippon (NHK Trophy) 75.22
    Messing (Nebelhorn) 74.52
    Miner (Skate Canada) 73.91
    Dornbush (Rostelecom Cup) 73.89
    Messing (Cup of Nice) 71.33
    Aaron (Cup of Nice) 71.01
    Miner (Salt Lake Sr B) 69.09
    Abbott (TEB) 63.75

    Top Domestic FS scores:
    157.70 [should be 158.21] Aaron 89.58 TES [should be 90.09] (Midwestern Sectionals)
    151.42 Dornbush 76.16 TES (Glacier Falls)
    151.39 Alexander Johnson 75.23 TES (Midwestern Sectionals)
    Also, Jason Brown (TES unknown) and Grant Hochstein (74.25 TES) have scored over 140 in club competition exhibition free skates (eta: Brown also scored 149.09 in his Regionals FS exhibition in October, TES unknown).

    Maybe I'll get around to breaking down short program scores similarly later...
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  5. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    see above. Sorry!
  6. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    For Hanyu this is smart, but idk, it seems like most guys are going for a quad in the SP now regardless of how consistent it is. Dornbush's quad seems fairly consistent so I get him trying it in the SP I guess, but I don't really understand why Abbott, Miner, and Mahbanoozadeh are going for it in the SP when their respective quads are really not that consistent yet. I think they'd be smarter to go for a clean skate with a 3-3 in the SP and save the quads for the FS. Of course, if a skater is prone to edge calls on his 3f or 3lz, and doesn't feel as comfortable doing a 3lo, or the 3a is not so consistent that a quad could help balance out potential issues on that jump, or doesn't have great spins, I can see putting the quad in just to have a better odds should it work, but otherwise, I'm a bit confused. Seems like SP scores in the 60s and low 70s are very common this season among the men, whereas when most were going for the 3-3, scores were more commonly mid 70s-80s.
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy both Miner and Dornbush, but IMHO, Miner has always been more consistent. But Ricky won Junior GPF with a great fp to Sherlock Holmes 2010 - 2011. That fp was effing brilliant and it enhanced Ricky's strengths and his reputation. But Ricky's Latin-themed sp from 2010 -2011 was just so-so and he didn't skate that sp as consistently as he did his fp. Ross also had a Latin-themed sp in 2010 - 2011, which he always skated with panache and humor (although some critics seemed to disregard Ross for being "a lightweight" and "not having enough difficulty.") I've always enjoyed Ross' skating so I think most of those types of criticisms are groundless. Sure Ross needs to work on his presentation skills, but he ain't too bad in that aspect either (Ross' Tom Dickson programs this season are awesome). Richard has good programs this season too (I love his sp!), but he is apparently trying to rebuild his confidence, and along with other U.S. men, find consistency on quads.

    I doubt the World team will be Miner and Dornbush, since there are only two spots. I don't care how many problems Jeremy has encountered this season and in the past, he is the reigning U.S. National Champion for a reason. On his best day, Jeremy Abbott should blow away Kozuka, Fernandez, Amodio, Brezina, Machida, Mura, et al, with his great technique and superlative artistry, and he would certainly challenge Chan, Dai, and the precociously talented but immature Hanyu.

    Re quads: Jeremy landed a gorgeous quad at 2012 Nationals, so he is capable of landing them. I'm not sure why he changed the entrance on his quad this season after he was finally successful last season with a different entry.


    To each their own viewpoints. But IMHO Samuel Contesti and Kevin van der Perren are in no way comparable to Jeremy Abbott in terms of skating skills, artistry and all-around talent level. Kevin is a great jumper and he seems to be a very sweet and attractive person who has a deep love for skating. Contesti was generally entertaining on the ice and was often able to maintain a level of technical consistency, but his scores never netted him major podium placements because his overall skating is average. Kevin and Samuel were the best in their respective countries and could go to Worlds every year, barring injury, since they had little to no competition domestically.

    Jeremy Abbott is 27 (he'll be 28 next June), and he is still in good shape (despite this season's back problems), and he is at his peak artistically. I don't see where you get the idea that Jeremy is "a shadow of his former self." Yes, Jeremy lacks consistency under competition pressure (and this season under physical-related pressures), but what he has achieved as an artist on the ice ultimately can not be measured in podium placements and CoP scores.

    As they have in the past, USFS will probably base their World team selections on who goes 1, 2 in January. Going into Nationals, Jeremy is the defending U.S. Champion, and the highest placing U.S. man at 2012 Worlds (and he has previously placed as high as 5th at Worlds), plus his PCS scores are highly competitive and if he hits his programs he will challenge the top men internationally. Lots of variables are involved re Jeremy achieving at least another top five position at Worlds, but there would be even more variables with probably lesser overall payoff if the proven veteran and the best male skater in the U.S., Jeremy Abbott, does not make the World team.


    Armin M's name is and has been generally mentioned by posters, but there hasn't been a huge amount of discussion about him in particular, likely due to the fact he wasn't at his best at his only GP this season, Skate America. So, perhaps as you said, "his injuries this fall have taken a toll on his skating," and I would add on his confidence as well. Training the quad is not easy, especially if you are injured and if you are limited in the number of early season int'l comp opportunities to get your programs out there. So many U.S. guys have talent, but they are hampered by the competitive depth in the U.S., which makes it hard to gain exposure much less make a mark internationally. Talent, hard work, being in favor politically, staying injury-free, good coaching environment, various other intangibles, as well as a boat-load of luck are all necessary ingredients (as well success breeding success).


    Under IJS/ CoP, it's fairly unpredictable as to what judges will do in terms of scoring across competitions, let alone across seasons.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  8. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, you're right about Jeremy, it just seems unfortunate to the other guys that Jeremy could feasibly have lots of problems at Nationals, be sent over other guys skating better based on reputation scoring, be sent to Worlds, and then tank there. If he skates really well at Nationals I have no issue with him being sent, as obviously all you mentioned is true, but if it's an Alissa like situation comparable to the ladies event last season, I hope he does not get held up and someone more deserving (and consistent) misses out on a Worlds berth because of it. As for Jeremy being at his artistic peak, I'm not sure about that, he certainly isn't way past it, but I think artistically, and probably technically too, his peak was more 2009-2011 roughly. But maybe that's just me. Also, Jeremy is definitely hands-down, head and shoulders better than Contesti and KVDP ever were, but that doesn't mean his position now isn't similar to that of those two the past few seasons. Skating is tough on the body...
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Sure skating is def tough on the body.

    Well, they didn't do Jeremy any favors at 2011 Nationals, when they clearly could have. He had performed very well on the GP that season, but they gave him no favors for his mis-steps in his Nationals fp. If anything, Ryan B was favored to win, and he did despite several jump-landing problems in his fp. I'm glad for Ryan that he won, but I do think Jeremy should have edged Ryan in the sp. Jeremy missed making the World team by .19 in 2011, and I don't think it was very wise that they left Jeremy off the team that year.

    In any case, USFS is probably not going to "hold up" any one of the guys this January. I just hope they are going to be fairly objective and realistic going in, but this is figure skating. ;) I think in many ways Jeremy is considered the favorite as the defending National champion (and he's clearly a skater who can obtain high PCS scores to match his technical abilities -- he just needs to be in shape mentally and physically to land his jumps under pressure), and if he wins Nationals, he absolutely must also be fully prepared to challenge at Worlds. IMO, Jeremy's peak artistically is now and forever. :swoon:

    Ross has certainly raised his stock with his second consecutive NHK Trophy bronze (particularly in a deep field this year), and especially with successfully landing his quad in the fp. I hope Ross' success at NHK will fuel him to a great showing at Nationals. Of course, Dornbush, Farris, Rippon, Messing, Aaron, Mahbahnoozadeh, Razzano, Carriere and others will also be in the mix. If Johnny is healed in time and feeling more fit, he might also do well, but at this point I doubt he would make the team.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Sarah and Drew's latest Inside Edge blog for IceNetwork is a Sectional champions roundup - here's an excerpt:
    There are also quotes from Keegan Messing, Stephen Carriere, and the 2012 U.S. junior silver medalist Tim Dolensky (he skated with a stress fracture in his left ankle at Easterns and did not qualify for Nationals).
  11. mathil

    mathil Member

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    Hanyu doesn't do a quad combo, but he said in one of his interviews that the entrance to his 3-3 is so 'dangerous' that he'd rather do another quad. I guess it really depends on the skater.
    About footwork into the solo quad, I guess doing it or not doesn't matter much, considering that those who don't do it don't get dinged for it even if it should be a requirement (see Kozuka at SA for example).
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    A Miner + Dornbush world team would also work, but IMO Dornbush really hasn't skated / placed solidly at the bigger comps since 2011 Nationals to warrant more support. If I were the US Fed I would be nervous to back him up again after last year's 4CCs fiasco, unless he really brought it at Nationals. On the flip side, despite bombing last Nationals, Farris actually skated / placed very well in each of his outings this season and past.

    All 3 have reliable 3axels (which unfortauntely can't be said for Abbott), so I guess it comes down to who has the most reliable quad. I also feel nervous for Dornbush for completely botching his 3/3 combo at his GP this season AFTER landing the quad and 3axel.
  13. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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    Dornbush may need to work on his posture. I think his jump suffers from the posture. It's very hard for him to check the landing when his head is so far forward before the take off. Until then, his jumps will probably be about 50/50 success rate.
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ ITA, but also more importantly Ross is more consistent than Richard and Jeremy, but Jeremy has more artistry, experience, and a higher profile than Ross and Richard. Joshua is a proven up-and-comer with a quad and 3-axel in his arsenal, but he has no experience on the senior circuit so he has less experience and profile than Ross, Richard and Jeremy. So, it remains to be seen who will perform to their best, and we'll see. On paper, I'm thinking Ross and Jeremy for the World team.

    Unfortunately, anyone who goes to Worlds for the first time will be unlikely to get the marks they deserve no matter how well they perform (and it isn't easy to perform well under pressure your first time at Worlds). Johnny, Ross, and Richard did perform well in their Worlds debuts but were not given the marks. An exception: Evan didn't perform all that well in 2005 but was given the marks and the bronze, so go figure!

    I hope all the skaters in all disciplines have great skates at Nationals, and Worlds too!

    ETA:
    I disagree that Jeremy's 3-axel is not reliable. He has good technique on it -- when he misses which is not often, it must be due to nerves or lack of focus, or the yips. So, it's not like he has technical problems with his 3-axel, in the way that Adam does.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Max Aaron has a consistent 3a and quad (and a 4s which is worth more at that), which is why I think he's a contender. Ross and Joshua have consistent 3a and have both shown they are capable of landing a clean rotated quad with +GOE at an international competition, but each has only done that once, and haven't been attempting quads for that long anyways. Jeremy's 3a isn't quite as consistent as these two and his quad rate isn't great either, but he has the highest PCS of the bunch which helps boost his status. As for Dornbush, he actually has a decent success rate with the 4t, but considering his 3a is not super consistent (it used to be, but after last season appears to still be hit and miss) AND he's prone to botching his SP combo, his consistency with the quad (compared to the others) gives him less of an edge than it might appear on paper. So really, it's a gamble any way you slice it, and even more so when you move on to include other skaters not in this group. 3 spots in this deep of a field is going to be hard to garner is just sort of the reality. If Evan was back and in his 2010 form, or Jeremy was consistent, I'd feel better, but alas..
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, ITA in general. Only thing is that Max has yet to be consistent at senior Nationals with his jumps, which are his strongest weapons. And the other thing is that in general skaters who appear at Worlds for the first time in front of senior International judges do not tend to be given the marks they deserve when they skate clean. For those who do score well as first timers and medal, a la Gachinski and Lysacek, it is probably a combination of genuine talent, and huge doses of politics and luck.
  17. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed that it might be a burden. Is it worse for the quad? Sure his posture is weird, but his triples are generally extremely solid. I have always thought his issue with the quad is due to the genuine difficulty of the quad itself instead of a technical issue.
  18. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I absolutely think Miner is THE first choice for Worlds, very much like Flatt in 2009. Not a medal contender yet, but gets enough of the job done that he can secure the second spot and help make a run for the third.

    I would love to be proven wrong, but I have a feeling this is another year where Abbott would be left in the dust at Nationals. His issue with the 3axel might not be technical, but he is just too inconsistent with it, and he inclines to pop all the time which is deadly. And this season even his easier triples are not always there. Abbott is a great skater, but he hasn't gone to that stage where he gets huge scores despite multiple errors. I am not that convinced that a mediocre skate from him can still score more than a solid skate from a Miner, Dornbush or Farris.
  19. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Internationally, Abbott (justifiably IMO) still commands PCS for mediocre skates that other US skaters aren't reaching, even with solid skates. I don't think that will change at worlds.

    However, as we saw in 2011, the US judges have no problem throwing out unrealistic PCS for skaters who stand up on a few more jumps, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's off the world team again this year either. I'm figuring it will be Miner and Dornbush.

    Abbott's usually good for at least one or two truly great performances a season, so hopefully Nationals and then Worlds is it.
  20. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Abbott usually scores low 8s while Miner scores mid 7s. That's about 5 points in total PCS difference in the free skate. Between popping jumps and losing spin levels, Abbott's PCS advantage is quickly lost.

    It's no good for him to have only one truly great performance per season. In 2009 it was GPF and he was subpar at Nationals and Worlds. In 2010 it was Nationals and he was subpar at Olympics and Worlds. In 2011 it was 4CCs and it meant he didn't make the world team. In 2012 it was Nationals again and he was again subpar at Worlds.
  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

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    Max and Alexander sound like two sensible kids who know what they want and how to get there. Hope they do well in the Nationals.
  22. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    I just watched the Midwesterns. Max A. will not get PCS Internationally; it'll be the case of Voronov, or worse. There's simply not enough in- between jumps. It's great that he'll be working with Camerlengo, but I imagine it should be not the matter of weeks, but rather months and years.
    Alex Johnson, to me, is very enjoyable, "my kind of skater". But isn't he coached by Dickson? That's it right there.
    Ross- I like him a little more every year ( and it's starting to add up to liking him quite a bit). Awesome NHK LP.
    Richard D. has great programs this year. Quite on par, IMO, with "Sherlock", if performed well.
    Jeremy, to me, is on a different plane altogether. I know skating's a sport, but Jeremy elevates it. His value extends so far beyond numbers, that I'd like him to make a National team as long as he is capable of putting a somewhat decent jump content in. His PCS will carry him as long as he is not falling apart completely. Sometimes I wonder if he should forget a quad and revert to 2009 jump content. That will not win him Gold at Worlds, but might put him higher than a flawed program with a quad.
    Farris might surprise; he has no weakness.
    If I had a wish, that would be Jeremy and Ross for Worlds; Richard and Joshua ( +1- Messing? Aaron? Brown? Rippon?) for 4CC ( if 4CC is not too close to Junior Worlds, I don't remember dates by heart).
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
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  23. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Wake up and smell the coffee (or at least look at the results). :)

    A comparison of Max Aaron's PCS (SS, TR, PE, CH, IN) at two recent competitions:

    Midwestern Sectionals:

    SP: 7.13, 5.63, 6.56, 6.38, 6.44
    FS: 7.56, 6.00, 7.06, 6.75, 6.09

    Coupe de Nice:

    SP: 7.33, 6.92, 7.08, 7.17, 7.33
    FS: 7.50, 7.08, 7.25, 7.25, 7.25

    :coffee:
  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I beg to differ on one of your points: Jeremy was NOT "subpar" at Nationals in 2009. He won his first U.S. National title in 2009, but he did not fare well at Worlds in 2009. In 2010, he skated lights out at Nationals and inexplicably popped jumps in his sp at the Olympics where he could have been the one taking home the gold. He somewhat redeemed himself at Worlds in 2010, coming in 5th (in a reduced field). Then Jeremy had a fairly good GP season in Fall 2010, but at Nationals 2011 he simply was not being shown much respect as a front-runner. Jeremy should have easily been ahead in the sp on the basis of his artistry and skating skills, although Ryan's really fun sp to swing music was a stroke of genius that I think Jeremy was inspired by to eventually create his own fun swing sp for the 2011-2012 season.

    In his 2011 fp at Nationals, Jeremy had a great skate going and then seemed to start thinking too much. I wonder how much his confidence was affected by not coming in first in the sp. Oh well, stuff happens the way it happens, and that's a fact. Still, the debate is endless in fs. :)

    Here are Jeremy's wonderful 2009 programs at U.S. Nationals. I saw Jeremy's sp live. :) Note that Jeremy had to perform immediately after the favored Evan L in the sp, as if USFS was saying to Jeremy: Show us you can back-up your GPF win. He showed them and then some. Wish Scott's comments could be muted in the below clip. ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gawOg1JXgfQ Jeremy 2009 sp U.S. Nationals
    (Jeremy's sp costume was designed by Tess Johnson)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zOXG3c64fg Jeremy 2009 fp U.S. Nationals (toward the end he popped one jump and then tried to add in another triple to make up for it and had a hand down on the landing, so he showed nerves but this was still an excellent skate, in no way "subpar" or he wouldn't have won)

    Notice Tom Dickson (choreographer extraordinare) at rinkside with Jere and coach Z
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  25. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if Marco is confusing Jeremy Abbott with Adam Rippon. Adam is the skater who has such difficulty landing 3 axles. Jeremy can be inconsistent with his jumps but I haven't noticed that it is his triple axles in particular.
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Abbott is attempting back-to-back triple Axels in his free skate this season and hasn't landed the second one yet in his two GPs -- I assume that's what Marco meant. (Abbott has landed 3A in both his SPs this season.)
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ And how's that for Jeremy challenging himself! Still, I wonder if it was the layout and choreo of his fp that made them go with the curved entry on the quad, instead of the straight line entry.

    In any case, I think Abbott has very reliable technique on all his jumps, but he too often loses focus during a program. I think it is his mental approach that he needs to examine and refine. I would like to point out though that unfortunately this season it may be Jeremy's physical problems that are hampering him more than his competition nerves and tendency to lose focus.
  28. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Thanks Sylvia.
  29. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Love this program, but subpar for him, esp. compared to the firey GPF performance.
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Still beg to differ. He clearly rocked his sp that year. And even though it was not the best Jeremy skated his 2009 fp, it was most certainly not "subpar" either. He was nervous before his free skate, as he is seen going through a ritual pumping up or calming down with his coach at rinkside. Wish I understood why it is Jeremy hasn't been able to conquer the "nerves" conundrum. I can't imagine what it's like to perform in front of an audience alone on the ice. I guess somewhere inside you've got to really love showing off, or have such a strong connection to the joy of movement and music that the extraneous and negative thoughts fall away.

    I understand the butterflies e.g., re speaking in front of an audience. The more comfortable you are with what you are speaking on (and with continual practice), the better it can get. However, I'm sure physical performance is a much different animal re conquering nerves -- especially on slippery ice.
  31. Bookslut

    Bookslut Member

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    Many folks are suggesting Farris for 4Cs and Junior Worlds. If I understand the current ISU rules, once he skates an international senior competition he cannot compete at a Junior event that year. (And once he competes in two international senior competitions he can never return to juniors.)

    Wouldn't skating in 4Cs automatically eliminate his eligibility for Junior Worlds? Or am I missing something?
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    ^^^ I looked up the current ISU Constitution and General Regulations online and didn't see it included/underlined as a new rule, so I don't believe that particular proposal was passed at the ISU Congress this summer? Can anyone confirm?

    ETA 2013 competition dates:
    Nationals are Jan. 20-27 in Omaha, NE
    4CC are Feb. 6-11 in Osaka, JPN
    Jr. Worlds are Feb. 25-Mar. 3 in Milan, ITA
    Worlds are Mar. 10-17 in London, CAN
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  33. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Not bad PCS scores for Max, which average mid 6s to low 7s. However, once again, it is difficult to translate judges scores across events, especially when you are dealing with regional competitions and a senior B vs GP senior international events. And even scoring at GP events should not necessarily be compared with Worlds and Olympics scoring where the fields are obviously larger and the competition more difficult.

    Since Voronov was mentioned earlier, note that he came in 3rd at CoC in a not so deep field, and 8th at NHK in a much deeper field. Voronov's PCS at his two GPs this season are somewhat lower overall than those of Aaron listed above, but IMO, fairly close. Although at his age, Max has more potential to improve and polish his presentation skills than the veteran, Voronov.

    As I mentioned, Aaron's scores are from a regional competition and a senior B event. At a major senior international, Aaron's scores will automatically be much lower, I'd bet, simply due to the newbie factor, and added to that it is hard to be clean in a senior international debut, especially at Worlds. That's why the performances of both Richard Dornbush and Ross Miner at 2011 Worlds were outstanding, albeit largely unrewarded and unheralded. That's figure skating. :judge: :COP: :argue: :drama: :wall: :fragile: :fan21:
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  34. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    The rule was discussed, and they brought in a variation of it for pairs to prevent situations like Sui/Han (competing Senior GP and then going to JW), but they didn't bring it in yet. I think it was one of those rules that was going to be brought in at a later time. The two Senior internationals, I'm sure that rule was discussed and I think it might have been brought in or be going to be brought in.
  35. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ So, that means Farris could still be sent to 4CCs and to JW, then.

    ITA with many of your viewpoints in your #302 post above, dinakt. Not sure though that Jeremy would have the luxury of not attempting his planned quad, at least in his fp.

    Farris is definitely remarkable and clearly an all-around skater still growing into his power and still developing his expressiveness on the ice. He's very special, but not without aspects of his skating he can continually improve upon. I'm sure he would agree. :)
  36. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the rule passed because Lipnitskaya talked about returning to JW this season after competing on the senior Grand Prix. Regardless, I thought the rule being tossed around said skaters lose junior eligibility after competing in TWO senior ISU competitions, so 4CC would just be one anyways. But I don't think that rule ended up getting passed, or if it did, it's not effective until next season (like how Julia was allowed to compete in senior GP this season).
  37. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Sort of sad none of the US guys will be skating in the (senior) GPF. Would have given us a better idea of what to expect going into Nationals, Miner and Dornbush have each had one great international competition (NHK and Finlandia respectively) and two okay ones thus far, though Dornbush's best outing came first and his subsequent showings have been spottier, while Ross appears to be on an upswing, Abbott was lackluster in both his GPs but showed improvement from SA at TEB, the collision obviously affected Rippon at CoC so current status is pretty much solely based on his NHK performances suggesting he's dealing with the same issues as usual and has yet to show obvious improvements/changes under Raffael.

    At least Brown and Farris will be at the JGPF so we'll get another chance to see how Jason's doing with the 3a and Josh with the 4t before Nationals. It's been awhile since their last JGPs and the performances both put out at those were solid but definitely had plenty of room for improvement. Cautiously optimistic for the both of them at this point.
  38. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    I am an absolute coffee addict, so that sugeestion was most welcome:)
    It is not my desire to slam anybody and I am not a pro.
    Those are decent PCS for Max from Couple de Nice; IMO, his PCS at Midwesterns are reflecting more precisely what was put on ice.
    But then , PCS is a deep mystery of the Universe.

    We also keep forgetting Armin, which is a shame. Beautiful skater, and I always end up feeling he just misses being the elite. Perhaps he could pull Ashley on us. I hope.
  39. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I think he would need to "pull an Armin on us," which would be just fine, indeed. :)
    dinakt and (deleted member) like this.
  40. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

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    totally agree with the person above who said figure skating is a sport, but Jeremy Abbott just somehow elevates it.
    abbott really is too good a skater to never win a medal at worlds at least.
    with the quad being so inconsistent this season (in competition) he may like to substitute the opening quad with a triple axel ...
    if he lands 2 triple axels, and all his other triples, then jeremy has a shot at the bronze!! (gold and silver i think are gonna go to hanyu and chan, unless others mess up big time).