Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.
Only one US man at Skate Canada? That doesn't make sense.
Luck of the draw. There was only one Canadian ice dance team at Skate America (W/P), with no Canadians in any other discipline...
From a personal standpoint, I agree about Aaron, but his PCS at US Classic and the Nationals SP last season were certainly strong enough to keep him in the mix for medals and world team spots, and his technical abilities help make up for this a little bit already. I do hope that USFS sticks to marking the skaters PCS-wise similarly to how they are internationally though, as someone like Razzano really shouldn't be placing top 5 at Nationals considering his international scores, and while Armin's improved a lot and could still be on the team if he hits his quads and skates really well, the across the board 6 range PCS he got at SA should not go unnoticed. I'll be curious to see how Dornbush is marked at his GP events, PCS at Finlandia were high, but last season on the GP, they generally weren't that strong, so it will be interesting to see if they vary.
Anyone heard how Nathan Chen is doing?
Dube/Wolfe were in the original Pairs selection, but they withdrew due to injury. Moore-Towers/Moskovitch, Duhamel/Radford, and Lawrence/Swiegers already had two initial selections, and the only other Senior Pairs who had the GP minimum score split. (The rest remained Juniors.) They didn't send anyone to any Fall Senior International to make the score with a provisional assignment -- the only teams they sent any Fall Senior B were L/S and M-T/M to Salt Lake City, who already had them -- and they put their third Pairs spot back in the pool.
Same for Ladies, except they sent Osmond and Lacoste to separate Senior B's.
I'm somewhat surprised they didn't push for a second for Rogozine at Skate America or another GP, but he's been inconsistent.
Weir's TES scores at Filandia were 31.94 for the SP, and 56.65 for the FS; therefore, he has earned the minimum TES for 4CC but not for the WC.
I've edited my post #145 above to add Weir's name to the 4CC minimums list.
After seeing Armin skate live at Skate America this past weekend I have to say he's a threat to Jeremy Abbott for gold, at least silver if he hits.
His Led Zeppelin SP is my favorite of all the men, not just the Americans, but internationally as well.
^^ I love Armin too and I will be happy to see him have a great season. However, there are lots of challengers for the American crown, and so all Armin can try to do is his best and let the chips fall where they may without putting extra pressure on himself. That's obviously what all the competitors know they need to do: work on what is in front of them rather than worrying about what others are doing.
I will try to enjoy all the skaters I love w/o getting too attached to the idea of who might win or not (easier said than done ). Anything is possible, but if all competitors skate their absolute best, then those with greater senior international experience and so-called "reputation" will have the edge, IMO.
Obviously a lot can change in the coming months, but what a disaster for USFSA Not one man was a able to medal at SA!
If Ross medals at SC, it would do him a world of good.
Right now both Richard and Johnny look pretty good to me. If we could grade their outings...
Richard = A
Johnny = -B
I would have given Johnny a lot lower than a -B tbh...
Why that is completely shocking from you, misskarne
^I think Johnny is fine w/ a B-. He hasn't competed since Vancouver and the fact he was landing the 4T (albeit UR) and 3x in a serious comp early in the season is good news to me.
Armin and Doug both had better showings at SA than Jeremy IMO, taking into consideration what they are capable of. I'd give Armin a B and Doug a C, keeping Jeremy at D.
Different graders, different report cards:
Richard = B+ (Bravo, and keep going strong; become consistent with the quad)
Johnny = B- (get comfortable with new skates; land the quad cleanly; programs have great potential, IMO)
Jeremy = C- (great sp and beautiful fp -- needs physiotherapist, better jump layout and mental strategy, plus land all the jumps -- he can do it!)
Armin = D (land the quad, get more colorful costumes and build more impact and excitement)
Douglas = D overall (but better job in fp; needs to project more, and as above, land those quads)
I agree that it would have done a world of good had Doug and Armin been able to land all of their planned quads at SA or at the least skate cleanly and beat Machida (who skated cleanly and w/o fear, but is still only an up-and-coming 4th place Japanese skater -- did he even attempt a quad?), and Menshov. No question that Jeremy coulda shoulda landed on top of the podium had he landed his jumps -- too bad that he suffered or aggravated compressed nerve problem. Obviously, at the least Jeremy coulda been somewhere on the podium, and Armin and Doug could have placed better (at least 4th or 5th and 7th, rather than 7th and 9th).
The SA field did not contain either of the top two guys in the world. While Kozuka is a wonderful skater, he did not perform his absolute best at SA. I feel Hanyu was overscored in the sp (if they wanted to give out high scores, 88 - 90 is within reason for what he did in sp ... 95 is just a statement from the judges that they are totally awed by Hanyu and giving him more cred than he deserves at this point). Hanyu is precocious, but still only 17, and he still needs to gain experience, endurance and maturity, as his failures in the fp showed.
Ross is very resilient; fingers-crossed for him at SC!
Razzano landed his opening 4T cleanly in his Skate America FS.
Ross Miner landed at least two 4S in his first Skate Canada practice this morning (1 in his FS run-through - his other jumps were 2A (opened up)+2T, 3A, 3Lz landed then fell, 3Lz+half loop +3S combo, 3Lo, 3F, outside edge spread eagle to 2A) - link to watch a live stream of Thursday practices is posted in the TV Alerts forum (SC practice discussion thread is in the Kiss and Cry section): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-Online-Viewing-Options&p=3722192#post3722192
^^ Thanks Sylvia. Yes, Doug was fired up to perform better in his fp, and he did do a lot better and determinedly landed the quad (thumbs-up for landing the quad in his fp, but he still needs consistency and improved presentation skills). It seems to me that since Doug and Armin don't have as much senior international exposure, they've got to go out there every time and skate lights out just to be given some credit, otherwise if they don't perform their best, political/rep scoring will keep them even further down in the marks.
Kudos to Ross, and keep up with the good work! Is Mark Mitchell with Ross at SC? (Peter J accompanied Christina to SA, and Mark was with Harrison Choate at his latest medal-winning comp). Mark and Peter are wonderful coaches.
Yes, Mitchell is with Miner at SC.
Keegan Messing and Max Aaron are competing in the SP at Cup of Nice (starting now) - a link to the live stream is posted in this TV Alerts thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...live-stream-(thru-Oct-28)-amp-archived-videos
Wow, Messing just scored 80.61 in his Cup of Nice SP! He landed 3A, 3Lz+3T, and a huge Russian split jump into 3F at the end.
ETA: Messing received an edge call on his flip - he leads after the SP with Max Aaron 2nd, 75.95 (4S fall, 3Lz+3T hand, very nice 3A). Men's FS is tomorrow.
^^ Are any vids available from Coup de Nice.
Hope Ross can go clean in his fp at SC. Skating early went against Ross at SC, but he sure was not being held in high regard by the judges either (despite his fall out with hands down on the quad, and major error on combo where he lost a lot of points). Still Ross is a better overall skater than Balde (who went clean) and on a par with Amodio and Ten who both had errors on two jumping passes, not unlike what happened to Ross -- but Ross is behind all three, as well as a bit behind Gachinski who has lost his jumps and is neither smooth nor expressive (despite judges levels on his elements).
For those without Kiss and Cry access, see this Cup of Nice thread in the TV Alerts forum for a link to the live stream and archived videos: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...live-stream-(thru-Oct-28)-amp-archived-videos
Keegan Messing SP Cup of Nice 2012
I'll have another cup of nice, please.
^^ Thanks. I had trouble locating Keegan's performance in the archived stream.
Keegan was great in the sp at Cup of Nice. Is there a vid of his fp? He has programs this season which apparently match his flair. If he's able to continue performing with this kind of consistency and control, then he may be able to do some damage at Nationals. I wonder where this kind of performance would have rated him at SA?
However, does Keegan have a quad in his arsenal? Is he training them and just hasn't put them in his sp? Does he have one planned for his free program this season? It looks like most of the top guys and guys hoping to land in the top are trying to put the quads in their programs. However, that is difficult to accomplish because if you don't land them you lose points, and may also be thrown off enough to miss other elements (as happened to Ross in his SC sp).
Richard may be a bit ahead of the game this season (especially among the younger guys) since he worked on putting the quad out there last season during the GP with some success, despite his having blade problems at Nationals, which set him back a bit. Ross may have begun training the quad last season, but he did not attempt it in his programs last season yet skated fairly consistently and successfully with a GP bronze, U.S. Nats bronze, and 4CC bronze.
Keegan has attempted quads off and on for several years. I know he's landed them, but I couldn't tell you when or where. He has had some bad luck with back injuries, which may have prevented his including a quad in his programs consistently.
Good for Keegan, great short!
Keegan Messing has won his second consecutive Cup of Nice gold medal (224.44, 144.33 2nd in FS) and Aaron the silver (219.62, 143.67 3rd in FS). Messing fell on 4T< in his FS and Aaron popped his planned opening quad into 2S, but both successfully landed the majority of their jumps today.
I happened to catch Keegan's and Max's LPs on Livestream at the Cup of Nice. My impressions for both -
Keegan's program looks more cohesive than I ever recall any of his programs being. His spins are incredibly fast and his jumps (save the Quad) are cleaner and tighter than before. He also has great FW and seems to have worked on how to sell the program.
One of my complaints about Max was that he seemed to throw everything away in a program but the jumps. But, his WSS story seems to be at least a bit more watchable than before. He bailed on the Quads but everything else is better and more consistent than ever before.
If they both keep it up, I think they could be podium threats at Nats.
BTW, would either Keegan or Max be on a substitute list for the GP due to good Senior B results??
If Keegan's body holds up, he'll be a fantastic competitor in the next quadrenial. As of now he's slowly, but surely, improving each year. The body just needs to hold up...
Aww Ross, that was somewhat of a bad competition for him. Yes he had decent LP, but 8 place in the SP? No quad? He needs to turn it around in his next event.
Ross Miner: C
And where's Evan???????
I think Ross has two very watchable programs this year, and he skated pretty well in the LP. I wonder what was the motivation behind using Dorothy Hamill's LP music?