U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I am a big fan of Jeremy's skating and have followed his skating closely the last few years. I am not sure he has the personality type for competitive sports at the highest level. For the last couple years, he has been trying to see if he can learn to compete better, perhaps as a way of challenging himself.

    I respect his effort to do that and am curious where it takes him, though I try not to get too disappointed when he doesn't medal.
     
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  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, but is it just not knowing how to channel the nerves or losing focus through overthinking?

    In the Ashley blog thread there's a revealing quote by John Nicks:

    "At times I felt [Ashley] became not very focused under pressure, certainly at Nationals. Perhaps the training wasn't very disciplined mentally as it should have been... I think Ashley is a lot more confident in her performance now..."


    With the right person (doesn't necessarily have to be a current coach either) giving Jeremy the right tips for him and practice re mental preparation for competition, why could he not change the way he approaches competition or thinks pre- and during performances?

    Obviously Nicks is a very experienced coach and there is something that clicked between him and Ashley. I also realize that Ashley has a different personality than Jeremy. The skater's own motivation is important most of all in the process of improving mental preparation and building confidence.

    Why do you think Jeremy's personality is necessarily unsuited for competitive success in sports? Just because he has so far tended to falter in big moments, at least internationally? He's also performed extremely well internationally, particularly when he won GPF in 2008.

    Is the key an experienced coach like Nicks or Frank Carroll who seem able to instill belief in their pupils? (Of course Carroll was less successful in helping Mirai build her confidence, but that could be more because she didn't always listen and do everything he asked).

    It will be interesting to see how Adam Rippon fares confidence-wise with his new coaching team.
     
  3. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I don't want to turn this into a thesis; suffice it to say that some people are just better at something and others just have to work much harder for it. Some people are just better at competing; others have to really work at it.

    There are many reasons people don't medal in competitions-- technique, injuries, luck of the draw, personal things in life keeping athletes back, athletes competing for the wrong seasons, personality that isn't naturally competitive, etc. I highly doubt anyone can have a quick fix for all that.
     
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  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to JGPF & GPF!

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    Here's U.S. Figure Skating's new montage video for the 2012-13 U.S. Men (includes clips of Lysacek, Weir, the majority of Senior men's competitors at 2012 Nationals plus junior champ Nathan Chen): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3efBTN7J21c
     
  5. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if this has been posted - from Nathan Chen's site - http://www.freewebs.com/nathan_chen/news.htm

     
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  6. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to JGPF & GPF!

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    Thanks, A.H.Black. Sounds like withdrawing from the FS was the right/smart thing to do. Here's hoping Nathan will be fine (enough) for Sectionals.
     
  7. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Nathan :wuzrobbed
     
  8. A.H.Black

    A.H.Black Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting information about Osgood-Schlatter disease. It's from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth -

    It sounds like Nathan's next challenge will be to find a balance in training to avoid injury as he grows.
     
  9. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    That's it everybody...keep underrating Josh...


    I hope Nathan can avoid too many more injuries as he gets bigger... :(
     
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ah, no thesis, indeed. Just a conversation. Surely a lot easier for us to speculate and discuss than it is for athletes to compete. Obviously some are better at competing, e.g., Kwan, Plush, Evan, Yagudin, Dai. And even at his young age, I'd include Nathan Chen (who seems to have a drive and a motivation to excel well beyond his years, not to mention the talent -- wishing Nathan success in healing soon and in pacing himself as his body grows).

    It seems that Ashley too under Nicks tutelage has learned how to compete with a strong mental attitude. In any case, I think all athletes really have to work at competing. There's an interesting video up (posted by lala in JO thread) with Plushenko talking, (in quoted captions) with lovely pics and melancholy music, to his fans and describing how skating IS his life, but that he's human and competition is not easy for him, but that desire drives him.

    Yep, there are many reasons athletes don't medal -- high among them the fact that everyone can't medal no matter how well they skate. As far as in Jeremy's case, I don't think he suffers from a lack of technique, and so far he has seemed to be in fairly good health physically :)saint:), his personal life seems fine, as far as whether he's competing for the right reasons, you may be on to something there; as far as right seasons, yeah let's hope so! ;)

    I'm not sure about Jeremy's "personality" not being naturally competitive, especially after he's competed these many years with a large degree of success. I agree that personal motivation and drive are important ingredients in competition, as well as a large measure of good luck (being well-prepared plays a part in being lucky). I suspect in Jeremy's case, and for many other athletes too, learning how to channel the nerves in a positive way is key. As well, in Jeremy's case, I think he may need to learn how to build more confidence and belief and also learn how not to over-think.

    Leave the "over-thinking" to your fans, Jeremy! :rollin:
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  11. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they surely should have included a clip of Josh in performance (and perhaps some others too :)). However, I'm sure it was NOT an intentional snub or "underrating" of Josh. It was all very quick and Josh may be in there in a group shot. Seems like the footage they were pulling from was limited (mostly to recent and past Nationals). Wish the video had been a bit longer.

    Was the voice-over from Johnny??
     
  12. acraven

    acraven Well-Known Member

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    It sounded like Evan to me.
     
  13. emason

    emason Well-Known Member

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    I think so, too; it certainly wasn't Weir.
     
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Ah yes, Evan! At first I thought Johnny, but then it really didn't sound like him exactly. I was waiting to see the person talking revealed, but he wasn't. Yes, it does sound more like Evan and it does make sense that he's the narrator for U.S. men's sojourn to Sochi!

    But yeah, as Jason and Nathan were featured, where was Josh (perhaps because he hadn't fared that well in the past two U.S. Nats, and that's the footage they were pulling from)? In any case, USFS is solidly behind Josh, and they certainly aren't underrating him.
     
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think (hope) Josh will get more attention as we enter the next Olympic cycle. Surely the USFS recognizes his talent, I just think they are preparing to prime him for 2018. It's not a snub per-se, at least I don't think, and while it's frustrating USFS did not submit his name for GP selection this season and is unlikely to send him to 4CC and/or Worlds this season regardless of how he skates at Nationals, it does make sense on some level. Josh is a very strong skater, but he's still young, so why not keep him in junior events where he can score and place well, earn ranking points, build up a solid reputation, earn JGP spots for the upcoming season, and gain confidence for when he moves to seniors? Right now there are just so many strong men with comparable skill sets in the mix to make the 2013 Worlds and 2014 Olympic team. There's still a very slim chance Josh could make those teams, but he'll be competing against around a dozen guys for 2 or 3 spots. But after 2014, we'll probably see half of those guys retire, drop off, etc. and Josh will still be young and hopefully will be continuing his upward ascent and I think then we will see the USFS really get behind him and promote him and his skills. Maybe it's wishful thinking but it does make sense. I mean, Josh isn't even 18 yet, and in 2018 he will be barely 23 which is in the prime age range for male skaters to reach their prime, and even in 2022 he will only be around the age Abbott, Lysacek, and Weir are now, so it does put things into perspective.

    It's different in the ladies field with Gracie Gold because the ladies field is less crowded and they really need a rising star with Alissa's downward trajectory and injury last season, Rachael going to Standford and not being able to keep up her old skating level, and Mirai and Agnes just being wildly inconsistent for the past couple seasons, and then Hicks got injured and Gao is at Harvard. But for the men you have Evan, Johnny, Jeremy who without a doubt 2014 is their last shot due to their age, then Adam, Ross, Richard, and Armin who have been around the scene for a while and are all in their 20s and established, then Aaron, Razzano, Carriere, Messing, and Mroz who could play as wildcards and while still young are too old for junior competitions. So USFS feels like they only really need Josh on the junior stage for right now because he's young enough to compete there and they have their hands full already deciding who will go to the 2014 Olympics in men without considering him or Jason or any other guys who have plenty of time to make it later.

    I agree about Nathan. Hopefully he will be ok. Growing periods are always tough.
     
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ And now, you forgot someone too ;) Ashley Wagner!
     
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Yes but there need to be two ladies "stars" because we're going to have at least 2 ladies spots at the Olympics.... I didn't forget Ashley, she's the one to beat right now!
     
  18. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    How do you know his personal life is fine? :p (not saying it's not)

    If you read the articles around 2009-10, there were open discussions as to what he needed to do to mature as a skater and person. The pre-Olympic analyses at the time were also pretty spot on too.

    Anyway, I don't agree with "competed these many years with a large degree of success". He started skating when he was about 5, but he didn't really medal in anything major until 19 years old, when he won jr men's at nationals. His first international success didn't come until age 21. Everything took him a while. I wish he had more time :( .

    As far as confidence goes, I would say he often lacks confidence in the quad, so that's often the first jump to go wrong when he is nervous (Used to be the 3A).
     
  19. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I wish he had more time, too. :(

    I wish he had a World medal,,,but if it's not to be, it's not to be. Four US titles (incl the Jr one), the GP and 4CC medals are something he can always be proud of. He fought hard and did well for himself.

    It just seems he has had more to overcome than most. He has great talent, musicality, creativity and drive. He just has a traitorous nervous system.
     
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  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, okay, jlai, AFAIK from afar, Jeremy's personal life appears to be fine in terms of family love and support and friendships (public ones at least). Since his life is focused around skating, I'm not sure how much of a "personal life" he has time for anyway. He seems to enjoy tweeting, and he seems to be a fun, goofy, sweet guy to be around. He's an uber-talented figure skater, he often cuts his own music, and did I say I think he's an absolutely fabulous skater!

    Yes, true that success in skating did not come fast or easy for Jeremy, and he has experienced inconsistencies in competition. I hope he is able to find the key to controlling his mental jitters and simply enjoy skating this season. Love his new programs!

    Manleywoman has a skatecast interview with Jeremy's mother, Allison Scott, which is very revealing.

    Jeremy has an excellent quad when all goes well for him going into it. I don't think he lacks anymore "confidence" in his quad than does anyone else who is trying to master quads consistently. I'm also not certain that it is specific jumps that "go wrong" for Jeremy when he gets nervous. Probably depends more on where he is in a program when he loses focus, or begins thinking too much.

    Wishing Jeremy success this season. Whether or not "pigs fly," Jeremy is always a joy to watch.
     
  21. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Oh, shoot. It sounds exactly like what Sui (as in Sui/Han) has, and he's even younger than Sui! It's possible that neither of them will be healthy enough to train/compete again until their bone structure completely matures. Yikes!

    At least it doesn't say Nathan has O-S "disease" though, just says he has O-S "pain"... Fingers crossed for Nathan!
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    At Skate America, Armin Mahbanoozadeh has made the Worlds TES minimums for both the SP and FS. Douglas Razzano has made the Worlds minimum in the FS and the Euros/4C's minimum in the SP.
     
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  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Happy Armin met the minimums, but his overall score/placement here, while by no means disastorous, are unlikely to help his case for making the World team or getting GP assignments next season, which is sad, because we know he can do much better. Hope his ankle is ok!
     
  24. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

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    Is David Wang competing this year?

    How about TJ Yang?? Anyone heard from him lately?
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to JGPF & GPF!

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    Neither David Wang (J11 at 2012 Nationals) nor Kevin Shum (N4), both of whom are listed in the ISP, have competed this year due to injury and neither registered for Regionals.

    Razzano has another shot to make the Worlds SP minimum at the Ice Challenge Senior B next month.

    Already met the TES minimums for Worlds (SP 35, FS 65) & Four Continents (SP 25, FS 45) in both segments last season or so far this season:
    Abbott, Rippon, Miner, Mahbanoozadeh, Carriere, Messing, Aaron, Dornbush, Brown, Farris.
    Four Continents minimums met in both segments/Worlds minimum met in 1 segment this season or last: Hochstein and Mroz (SP only); Razzano and Dolensky (FS only).
    Four Continents minimums met in both segments this season or last: Cassar, Choate, Warren, Weir.

    ETA: Lysacek reportedly is hoping/planning to compete in a Senior B before Nationals to achieve the minimum scores for Worlds.

    ETA #2: Nathan Chen met the Worlds minimum scores at his JGP in Austria, but he won't be age-eligible for Four Continents/Worlds until the 2014-15 season.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  26. Sk8tn

    Sk8tn Member

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    Weir too from Finlandia (69.03 SP, 132.39 FP).
     
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  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Things looking really good for Dornbush at this point. Max Aaron too. I could definitely see both those two on the podium at Nationals this season, and wouldn't be surprised if Johnny and/or Jeremy were not on it.
     
  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    At this point, I think Max Aaron (despite the fact he can land quads) is weak in presentation skills. Also, IMO, the guys who have more international experience, who are able to compete well at Nationals and who also do well on the GP have a better chance of placing in the top two at Nats, including Evan, if he's able to come back; Jeremy (if he recovers from poor SA performance); Johnny; Richard; Ross; Adam. There are only 3 podium spots, so a lot of guys won't be on it.
     
  29. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    ITA pinky166. It's time to look at the boys with the most consistent quads. As to Abbott, Lysacek, & Weir, as much as I hate to say this, they are the past & I don't see them making the World team in 2013.
     
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to JGPF & GPF!

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    Replying to your post in this relevant thread:
    Max Aaron and Keegan Messing are competing at Cup of Nice this week; Ross Miner is the lone U.S. guy at Skate Canada.

    BTW, there are 4 podium spots at Nationals (pewter medal for 4th place).