U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Such as?

    Placement at their first Worlds (among the men who competed at 2013 Nationals):
    Aaron 7th in 2013
    Dornbush 9th in 2011
    Miner 11th in 2011
    Rippon 6th in 2010
    Mroz 9th in 2009
    Carriere 10th in 2008
    Abbott 11th in 2008

    ETA: I would say all the rookies had solid debuts except for Abbott, placement-wise, who went as an alternate and the 3rd man (he landed 4T+2T in SP and 4T in FS but had problems with his three 3A attempts).
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  2. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think Ross is a good type of skater for the 3rd mens spot on World Teams if we had it, and Max is a good pick for the 2nd spot. Problem is, we need a solid 1st team member pick which we don't have right now, someone who should be good to place in the top 5 and can challenge for a medal/win on a good day (If Abbott could deliver consistently, he could be that, and Lysacek used to be that, but given their respective ages and the scoring of Babou and technical unraveling of Dai witnessed last night, I'm not too hopeful about Abbott or Lysacek becoming a strong 1st World/Olympic Team member pick before their respective retirements, which will probably occur pretty soon, at this point). So I guess it's just a game of wait and see now. I think Josh Farris shows promise and was arguably the most consistent US man this season, and I think he could have made his mark at these Worlds, but realistically, skating his best would be about 9th or 10th place, so definitely not good enough for 3 spots, and look what good that did Richard Dornbush back in 2011 :( ...none whatsoever despite his skating and scoring remarkably well for a teenage newbie at his first Worlds. So in the end, we're just in transition right now.

    C'est a la via. Will say though that I'm mighty impressed Nathan Chen is still in the top 24 SB list :D. The future could be arriving sooner than we think, I mean, look at the amazing ascent of Denis Ten! Or even Fernandez who was nothing too too special just two seasons ago.
     
  3. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    We were spoiled by Weir too. Not a lot of World/Olympic podium placements, but he never finished lower than 8th at those events, and helped us get 3 spots quite a few times.
     
  4. ilovepaydays

    ilovepaydays Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think we can all agree that the GP this fall will definitely be :watch: for the U.S. men. If I was going to make prediction on who makes the team based on what I see right now, it would be Aaron & Farris/Dornbush. Maybe Brown is in the mix. As much as I like Jeremy's skating, I think that he isn't going to be given the benefit of doubt if he makes mistakes at Nationals.
     
  5. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    If Lysacek shows up at Nationals, he's going to get an Olympic slot-no matter how he really skates.

    So there's one Olympic slot for the rest......I bet it's Aaron.
     
  6. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

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    I think we'll see Max repeat as National Champion in 2014. I expect him to incorporate his quad salchow into next year's program. The rest of the Americans will be playing catch-up. Abbott can't deal with pressure & as much as I like him, Rippon is questionable. Dornbush is tough & determined & Miner needs to work more on a consistent quad. As for Farris & Brown if they develop consistent quads (at least 1 in the long) they'll have a shot at making the Olympic team. I haven't totally given up on Carriere & will be watching the summer & fall competitions just as I did last year for him & Max to see if he is progressing or regressing. I'll reserve judgment on Evan until I see him again in competition.
    I was thrilled with Max & his 7th place result. I'm still laughing at his hitting the boards & instead of falling he dug his left skate into the ice & pushed off. Didn't seem to faze him. Remarkable!
     
  7. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so, not without a quad and not without skating really, really well. Think back to Sasha Cohen in 2010..Firstly, I don't think Evan will be coming back, and secondly, if he does, I don't think he's a lock for the team, though he could make it. He never really had a quad to speak of in his prime and his 3a is not of very good quality either. Plus it seems the past generation is getting a little bit dumped...Joubert, with quads, down in 9th, Takahashi down in 6th after missing jumps but more importantly with PCS below not only a Chan meltdown but also Ten and a good-but-not-great Fernandez. Make of that what you will.

    If we see the men ease up on the quads internationally next season, then Abbott and Brown probably have decent odds to make the team, they'd probably just need to be trying one in the FS and might even be able to afford a fall if it's rotated (Jason) and maybe even if it's not (Jeremy).

    If quad is still a really big factor, the team will probably be Aaron and either Dornbush or Farris. Dornbush needs to stop popping his 3a so much and work on avoiding silly mistakes in the SP, Farris has a great 3a and 3a-3t and seems to be getting closer on his quad attempts, if he can start landing them more often than not come next season and keep up the consistency on his other jumps, he may be the smartest pick. Right now the quad is usually a splat, albeit rotated, but he probably has the best 3a in the field right now and seems to be able to pull out the rest of his jumps well most of the time even when he does crash on the 4t. If I were him, I'd leave it out of the SP next season, he's always been a strong SP skater and his ability to get level 4s on all his spins and footwork combined with the quality of his 3a make it less crucial for him in the SP. Plus in seniors he could do a 3lo as his solo jump if he's worried about getting called for lipping, his 3lo is one of his best jumps anyway. Then in the FS a layout where he could try for two 4t, if he lands the first, and just one if he falls on the first, might be smart, or if the 4t is more miss than hit still, he could try for 3a-3t or even both 3a in the bonus. Dornbush I assume will keep trying the 4t in the SP along with his optional two or one (but usually two) 4ts in the FS. If he can hit the quads most of the time and keep the other mistakes to a minimum, he's probably the strongest pick for the 2nd spot, and maybe could even overtake Aaron for the 1st.

    Miner, Rippon, Johnson, and Mahbanoozadeh could find themselves in the mix but I don't think they'll be receiving any reputation bonuses at Nationals next year and I don't think they are going to be who the USFS is focused on leading up to Nationals/the Olympics. And then obviously, they will need to have the 3a secured and be at least going for the 4t, likely with some success and full-rotation credit, to be in the shakeup.

    I do think that, now that the results of the season are in, that things have shifted from Abbott and Miner seeming like the likely Olympic team to Aaron and Dornbush/Farris (probably mostly Dornbush as USFS likely wants to push for Farris to really peak for 2018 and may be prone to hold him back a bit for now, although he did win pewter at Nats with scores right up with the top 3, and is JWC. So we shall see.) And I do think a team of two of those three guys would have decent odds at getting back a 3rd spot, maybe not next season and it could even take a few years, but after all the post-Sochi retirements, a dynamic, consistent jumper like Max along with well-rounded skaters who are balanced technically and performance wise/artistically like Richard and Joshua should be the type of skaters who could be placing in the top 5-7 at Worlds and challenging for medals on a good day (barring onset of headcase-ness, injury, illness, quitting, even higher technical expectations, etc.) And there is a lot of talent coming up through the ranks too in Omori, Chen, Ma, and Zhou. Plus Jason Brown seems a lot steadier with the 3a now and has already come into his own artistically at 18.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  8. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Solid debuts. Definitely. But recently it has been the rookies leading the charge (Dornbush and Miner - '11) (Aaron - '13) and thus they are the ones with a heavy burden to deliver subsequent great performances.
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    USFS posted their Gardena Spring Trophy (April 1-3) entries on their site today: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=216
    5 men are going to Italy:
    Senior - Adam Rippon, Brandon Mroz
    Junior - Jimmy Ma (J4), Jordan Moeller (J5)
    Novice - Vincent Zhou (J1)
    It will be the international debut for Ma, Moeller, and Zhou.
     
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^I love the fact that the US is sending notable skaters to these competitions (don't they normally skip them?). I hope they do well.
     
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Gardena looks like a "makeup" competition for Rippon and Mroz, both of whom had to withdraw from their last competition due to injury. Rippon lost the chance to improve his Season Best total score and gain ISU World Standings ranking points at Four Continents (Dornbush, his replacement at 4CC, subsequently passed him on both lists), while Mroz was originally scheduled to go to Challenge Cup with Alex Johnson. Glad to see USFS being so proactive! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  12. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    If Rippon is going to this one, I would assume he's not going to WTT?

    When do they have to announce the WTT entries?
     
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    2013 Gardena Spring Trophy Senior Men's final top 4:
    1 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN 228.63 1 2
    2 Adam RIPPON USA 219.16 3 1 (he received 225 ISU WS ranking points)
    3 St├Ęphane WALKER SUI 193.71 4 3
    4 Brandon MROZ USA 190.26 2 5 (he received 182 WS points)

    ETA Gardena podium pic via Twitter:
    Senior Men (L to R: Rippon, Kozuka, Stephane Walker SUI)

    FS top 5:
    1 Adam RIPPON USA 155.52 74.18 81.34 8.08 7.92 8.25 8.17 8.25 0.00 #10
    2 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN 147.45 70.45 79.00 8.00 7.67 7.83 8.17 7.83 2.00 #9
    3 St├Ęphane WALKER SUI 130.96 62.96 68.00 7.00 6.50 7.08 6.75 6.67 0.00 #11
    4 Abzal RAKIMGALIYEV KAZ 125.74 57.56 68.18 6.75 6.42 6.92 7.08 6.92 0.00 #13
    5 Brandon MROZ USA 121.42 51.42 71.00 7.08 6.92 7.08 7.25 7.17 1.00 #12
    Protocols: http://application.fisg.it/results/3081/23Gard_SeniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf

    Rippon wrote a short blog for his site before he left for Italy and mentioned that he had started jumping again 2 weeks ago after recovering from the ankle injury that forced his WD from Four Continents. He debuted a new long program today to Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun, choreographed by Tom Dickson. 2 photos from today's FS:
    Beginning(?) pose: http://imgur.com/fY0OIip
    End pose: http://imgur.com/yYx85PP

    2013 Gardena Spring Trophy Junior Men's podium photo (L to R: Shu Nakamura, Jordan Moeller, Jimmy Ma)
    1 Jordan MOELLER USA 195.67 1 1
    2 Shu NAKAMURA JPN 163.82 5 2
    3 Jimmy MA USA 153.98 2 3
    FS:
    1 Jordan MOELLER USA 132.05 66.73 65.32 6.58 6.25 6.75 6.58 6.50 0.00 #6
    2 Shu NAKAMURA JPN 116.46 60.96 55.50 5.83 5.17 5.58 6.00 5.17 0.00 #5
    3 Jimmy MA USA 98.90 44.90 55.00 5.83 5.08 5.75 5.67 5.17 1.00 #9
    Moeller landed 7 triples: 3F, 2A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2T+1Lo, 3S, 2A+2T.

    Vincent Zhou won the Novice Boy's gold medal with an impressive total score (153.55) and 7 triple FS (3S, Rippon 3Lz, 2A, 3Lo, 3F, 3F+2T, Rippon 3Lz+3T):
    1 Vincent ZHOU USA 105.09 58.26 46.83 6.67 6.25 6.67 6.42 0.00 #7
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Nice PCS for Adam...higher than Kozuka :eek:, the new program must be pretty great! Did he try a quad of any kind here?
    Zhou continues to be great, too bad he's still too young for JGP next season.
    Moeller much better than at Nationals but he won't go anywhere without a 3a, likely not even on the JGP, so hope that jump will be ready soon!
     
  16. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    According to the protocol there was no quad, no 3A, and he had a lutz (!) combo <. But he did say on his blog this competition would not be about jumping. Kozuka did a 4t
     
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, amazing score considering! He must of gotten huge +GOE!
     
  18. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Looks like just 2 men tried a 4t; one fell and one nearly fell? Mroz looks to have planned a 4t to open his program but did a 3t instead. Adam did only 2A, no 3A. Can't wait to see this program; Tom Dickson always knocks it out of the park with his choreography and Adam has that flowing lyrical style that suits Dickson's choreography well.
     
  19. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure once Adam is no longer battling injury those 2As will be triples.
     
  20. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Looks like he's going for the Nijinsky style interpretation like Ilia Klimkin did. It should suit him well.

    Nice to see Rippon get strong PCS from an international panel despite the watered down jump content. Doubt it will make a difference with the US Nationals judges and their +5 PCS bonus for just standing up on a quad jump. :p
     
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    After Max's season I wouldn't be surprised if he gets PCS of almost 90 in the FS at Nationals next season :p. If Jeremy rocks it at WTT and gets his mojo back I assume Miner's components will fall back to Earth at Nationals though and Aaron and the vets (meaning Abbott and Lysacek if he shows up) will be the only ones getting hearty PCS boosts come Nats. Excited to see what pukeyface does at WTT...I hope he has another good season in him. I can't handle another great skater going the route of Verner :slinkaway
     
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  22. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Pukeyface? :rolleyes: Why such disrespect?
     
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    It's the "about to puke" expression that Abbott has waiting for a program to begin when his nerves get to him. There seems to be a direct correlation between his confidence -- ie facial expression -- and his performance.
     
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Haha I like Jeremy it's just a nickname because his "I'm an arteest" face he has when he hits his starting pose for his programs always looks like he's nauseous and about to yack...hence pukeyface. It's not meant to be mean, sort of just something viewers have noticed over the years. It might be due to nerves too.
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Thanks, Sylvia. I watched his LP and it's a beauty. Now, he just needs the jumps ....

    Is he planning to stay with RA this season???
     
  27. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that the jumps will come; as he continues to recover/regain his strength and confidence.
    It's a beautiful program with an amazing level of performance already!
     
  28. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Sure - Adam's 3axel technique was much improved at Nationals.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Ahh love Adam's new program. I honestly thought he was probably done and haven't been too impressed with his programs/artistry for a few seasons now but this program changes all that. Just lovely. Adam doing what he does best, being lyrical and pretty.
     
  30. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    What a *perfect* program for him. Love it. :swoon: