U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I was just perusing Sylvia's no's from her link. I think based on scores thus far, the US men are in a better position to take on the world than they were the last 2 season: More prepared, more Quads, and more attack. I think many eyes will be on Abbott and Lysacek to see what exactly they lay out on the ice at SA (Will Evan go for a Quad and how rusty is he? Will Jeremy finally show a little more consistency?) and what kind of scores they can bring. Johnny set the bar at 201 pts. for the 'old men' and I think they both will go above that.

    But, Evan has to show up first ... :slinkaway
  2. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    As far as the clean Ricky vs. Inconsistent Jeremy vs. Normal Evan, and I say this as a huge Evan uber, Evan hasn't skated competitively in two seasons. And the code has changed pretty seriously since the last time he did. If he skates at SA, I'm not sure we have any idea what "normal" Evan is now.
  3. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Ricky skated a clean SP and earned a SB score in his FS at 2011 Worlds, scoring over 150 points for that program and hitting a 3a-3t in the second half of the program. His 9th place was actually a really good result considering the depth of the field and how he was competing on the junior circuit just that fall. Overall, he might have skated even better at 2011 Worlds compared to Nationals, simply because his SP was cleaner (his SP at Nats was a bit shaky and only relegated 7th place and a score of around 67 IIRC). The only mistakes in that FS were a doubled loop and a shaky landing on his 1st 3a, which was somewhat canceled out by the fact that he landed 3a-3t so well in the second half of the program, earning a bonus that he wouldn't have gotten had he performed that combo as intended at the beginning of his skate.

    Last season, Dornbush was ok on the GP (SA - fairly good SP and okay FS, CoC - bad SP but pretty good FS), a mess in the SP at Nats but rebounded with a pretty good FS, then was off for both programs at 4CC. So really, he wasn't that inconsistent, he just wasn't skating his best, and considering he had boot problems, it makes sense. Richard last season was still probably more consistent than Jeremy is during any given season, he simply didn't score as high because Jeremy has more reputation, experience, and senior level medals to back him up as well as really strong PCS. I'm not saying his PCS aren't deserved, they certainly are, but Jeremy's TES is consistently a huge problem for him, last season I can't recall if he ever broke 70 for his FS TES, whereas Dornbush just posted 90+ at Finlandia and in 2010-2011 was regularly posting high 70s and low 80s for TES in his FS. Internationally, Jeremy may have up to 10 points in PCS cushion on Ricky (Evan as well), but at Nationals the differential is likely to be lower, and considering for Jeremy TES in the 60s and sometimes even dipping into the 50s is pretty normal, Ricky can easily make up those PCS points in TES with a strong skate. As for Evan we'll have to see, the quad was never his strong suit and now it's likely even he will need one to be competitive, and further, his 3a isn't great either. So now that he's taken time off, I wonder where he will slot in even if he skates cleanly...
  4. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    We are within 2 weeks of SA....Evan must be planning to skate or he'd have withdrawn by now. Right? His team has always let folks know of a withdrawal in plenty of time to send another skater. I can't imagine Evan being unprepared. I expect him to do well.

    Jeremy was very late getting his programs, and I couldn't tell much from the show where the programs debuted. He didn't look really ready for competition, though. His overall excellent skating skills and choreography will probably help a sub par jump performance.

    I'm looking forward to seeing Razzano (he's the other US man at SA?)

    I think the US men will have a rough time beating Hanyu and Kozuka.
  5. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious as to whether or not Evan's 3A will still be acceptable to the judges or if they will finally start dinging him for the under rotations.
  6. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Evan's 3A is under rotated. It won't get any + GOE but don't see any reason why it would get - GOE.
  7. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, EL had problems with UR on the 4toe. But, I don't recall it being a problem with his 3x. Some complained about pre-rotations, though
  8. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I meant pre rotation, not under rotation.
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, but I think both Hanyu and Kozuka have vulnerabilities. Of course, if they both lay it down, they will be difficult to beat. And too, Kozuka is a former silver medalist, and Hanyu is the current World bronze medalist. And two Japanese men were on the podium at Worlds in 2011. However, in any given competition, anyone is beatable.

    I agree the U.S. men have stepped it up a notch. They've had to. Rooting for them all to do well this season and to be strongly and consistently competitive!
  10. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    Granted, I am a frustrated Jeremy über, but that SP is freakin' AMAZING -- if he hits cleanly, he will demolish the competition.

    As much as I want to like Dornbush (I loved his Sherlock Holmes FS), I just cannot get over my hatred of U2 to find the lurve for his SP.

    ETA: Just watched Abbot's FS for the first time -- absolutely gorgeous and sublime :swoon:, but he's GOT to land the jumps in order to win :wall:.

    He also gets massive props for continuing to use music that is not overused and creating programs that push the artistic level.

    *********

    Benji Schwimmer has the potential to become a kickass choreographer for figure skating -- he's two-for-two now with Abbott....I would like to see what he can do for Ice Dance (if he's already choreographed for anyone else, I'm not aware of it :eek: :shuffle: ).
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
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  11. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    One thing about Evan, he can be counted on to be prepared. I will be interested to see how his DWTS experience affects his skating and choreography.
  12. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    I don't quite "get" Abbott's SP yet. Looks like there may be gloves as gloves and gloves as guns? Also it was difficult for me to switch between suave spy and hip spy. I usually love his work (jumps or no) so hopefully I'll figure it out watching SA.

    Hopefully the two weeks will help and he'll look more prepared to skate those two programs at SA.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  13. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    "Bring Him Home" is a beautiful program. My only concern is his jump placement. Obviously, that wasn't the fully competitive version, but should he really be placing next to no jumps in the beginning and the majority of his jumps at the end? Risky choice for Jeremy, but I love that program.
    centerpt1 and (deleted member) like this.
  14. skatefan102

    skatefan102 New Member

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    the question is is two weeks enough. He got his programs really late and then he got a really early GP assignment. I hope he can pull them all together in time.
    centerpt1 and (deleted member) like this.
  15. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Also, forgive me if I missed it, but did Nathan Chen get a diagnosis?
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    If he has, it hasn't been publicized. On a positive note, his injury didn't seem to keep him from doing some walking/touring around the old city of Zagreb from a few photos I've seen online.
  17. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I'd love to know he's okay, though I must giggle a little at Chen being discussed in a US Men's thread. :)
  18. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Hanyu will be tough to beat. As for Kozuka, he kind of tanked most of last season, so while I like to hope he's back on track now and will return to his late 2011 form, we'll have to wait and see. Certainly his scores and placements from last season show he's vulnerable. Hanyu seems more consistent and a stronger competitor in general, but he's also so young that he could still potentially be dealing with body changes that require adjustment. We'll have to see. As of right now, both these guys, along with Javi and Dai, look to be in good form. And Richard. The Czech and French men, otoh, seem quite rusty/not ready yet. But it's early and that could change.
  19. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Figure Skating: Where Thirteen Year Olds Are Men.

    :lol:

    Jokes aside, I hope it's not serious. Which Regional/Sectional thingywhatsy does he have to do? How long does he have?
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Nathan Chen has a bye through his Regionals (Central Pacific) this month and so his next scheduled competition is Pacific Coast Sectionals, November 9-13, to qualify for Nationals.

    BTW, confirmation that 2011 U.S. Junior silver medalist Alex Zahradnicek is skating now for France is in the French Masters article I posted in the French skating news thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3706314#post3706314
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  21. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Lol, I know. :p His brother and I go to the same school, and I remember once having a conversation like this in our class FB group (before I knew they were brothers):

    Guy we go to school with named Nathan Chen: something random
    His brother: Woah, that's my little bro's name!
    Me: It's also the name of a US Men's skater I love.
    His Brother: Dude, that's my brother...but he's not a man!

    LOL

    ETA: I haven't crossed paths with the elder Chen (aside from facebook), so I couldn't just ask him for an update on his brother.
  22. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ITA! The more I watch both of Jeremy's new programs, the more mesmerized I become. Very cool sp -- love that kickin' hip hop dance move he does close to the end ... and the ending itself is classic and iconic, but still unexpected! :cool: And remember, he's performing under show lights on crappy ice. Can't wait to see these programs in competition. Stay cool and in the zone, Jeremy. Find a way to make nerves work for you. Release, and let go while maintaining balance and edge. Go into the gap between thoughts and rock it. You are the bomb!

    There's so much to be revealed in his fp with repeat viewings. Looking forward to seeing the full version in competition. :cheer:
  23. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn´t that be called Tano lutz after Boitano?
  24. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Tano is one hand overhead, Rippon two. He was doing a Rippon.
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    How about calling the jumps with two arms overhead jumps with two arms overhead? :shuffle:

    It's always been clearly and significantly pre-rotated.
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I can just hear Boitano and Rippon scathingly declaring: NO WAY, Zigs!!!
  27. Mrs. P

    Mrs. P New Member

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  28. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Being discussed also in the Lysacek comeback thread. I'm glad Armin gets a GP spot. :)

    Oh well, no Abbott vs Lysacek just yet.
  29. dots

    dots Well-Known Member

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    Well this blows!

    :fragile:
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    aftershocks, can you please take any re-hashing of past seasons' U.S. men's competitions to the Trash Can? Thanks in advance.

    It's always good to come across local coverage of figure skating, especially of U.S. men - here's a blog article about Dornbush's silver in Finland and coach Tammy Gambill's hectic travel schedule (Shotaro Omori is the correct spelling of the junior man she accompanied to Germany this week): http://blog.pe.com/gregg-patton/2012/10/08/figure-skating-dornbush-skates-to-second-in-finland/
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  31. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Look okay, Sylvia, but you will also need to monitor and enforce others' former season and out of place commentary in GSD as well, don't you think?
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    ETA: aftershocks, I'm not a moderator here and I can't tell you or anyone else what or where to post. I was just making a request, that's all. Feel free to start a new thread in the Trash Can to re-hash past competition results.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  33. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Ditto. So much for my failure to see your pre-emptive request initially, much less for my overall presumptuousness!


    Dear Sylvia, my aim was to respond to other posters' equally out of place comments in the Evan thread, not to get into a back and forth with you. In any case, since I respect you very much, I've acquiesced already across the board to your requests/ suggestions/ advice not to post rehash comments in the GSD threads in question. Thanks for all you do.

    As to starting a series of U.S. men's rehash threads in Trash, at the moment, NEVERMIND.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  34. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    aftershocks can you kindly stop spewing pointless and senseless bullshit all the time and then on top of that flip when somebody tells you nicely to cut it? I mean one only can take as much of your verbal diarrhoea... :drama:
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  35. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    One person's flip is another's flap. Ah, and you might want to look up the proper spelling for that very uncomfortable condition, of which you might also be in the running (no pun intended) for as well. ;)
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    It's the British spelling of the word.

    BTW, I believe you when you said you didn't see my initial request before posting here, and I appreciate that you've since moved your post to the Weir thread in the Trash Can. :)

    Keegan Messing has received a second Senior B assignment following his bronze at Nebelhorn -- he will join Max Aaron at Cup of Nice in France later this month (Oct. 24-28).
  37. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Aahh, so basically the first senior B sort of acted as a skateoff--the podium finishers among the US men get another assignment. That's pretty fair.
  38. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks as always, Sylvia! Brit spelling of that "burning sensation" is news to me, and I didn't know Ziggy's a Brit. ;)

    In any case, I'm not flipped out re your requests/ suggestions. It definitely can be annoying when GSD threads stray too far OT (not that many of them don't quite often).

    Off to take my probiotics, but doubt I'll ever learn how to edit myself, much less quit "spewing" to Ziggy's satisfaction. :p
  39. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    I've never gotten the sense that Abbott has a confidence problem. He has openly admitted though that he has a problem staying focused in competition. I really wish he could get a handle on that once and for all.
  40. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yeah, I wouldn't describe Jeremy as necessarily having a confidence problem. But, e.g., last season, he reacted with surprise a few times in the kiss 'n cry re high scores from the international judges. Perhaps understandable because he has been low-balled at times, especially in PCS. I think Jeremy needs to work on feeling good about himself and his abilities, particularly when he skates well, and try not to over-react to the judges' scores, good or bad.

    I also think Jeremy may be someone who tends to "think too much" during competition, or perhaps "overthink" beforehand. He did say that he has worked with a sports psychologist. If I were him, I would explore working with someone different, experiment with pre-competition preparation and take whatever approach to competition that is going to work best for him individually. It's not enough to do the training and prepare the programs and go out there hit or miss re the mental aspect of his skating. If nothing changes in that habitual mental sphere, then nothing will change re his overall results in big moments.

    Not saying I'm a psychologist, but I did some reading about the psychological aspects of athletes' performances as a direct consequence of watching Abbott's and Rippon's 2012 Worlds performances. As I said previously, I think part of the difficulty has to do with U.S. Nationals being so major and intense, unlike the Nationals that many non-U.S. competitors experience. It takes such a battle to make the U.S. team. How do U.S. medalists pace and prepare themselves in the aftermath of Nationals in order to be at their best for Worlds?