U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    If you're only interested in the men, why did you equate them with the ladies (which is the correct term, not "girls")? Why is it considered an upset for the Americans to do well, especially considering that the best 18 year old in the world left the junior circuit long ago and last year's champion isn't competing this year, either? There are some other questions I could add, but I'll stop at that.
     
  2. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this comparison would make more sense to me if I had recently seen The Last Supper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    The US men just swept the podium at Jr. Worlds! -

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wjc2013/CAT001RS.HTM

    1. Josh - 228.32
    2. Jason - 224.15
    3. Shotaro - 204.34

    Jason actually beat Josh in the LP - 154 to 152! Josh fell on the 4T

    Will these marks get Josh and Jason Sr. GP assignments next year?
     
  5. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Josh will get gp for sure. Jason's chance improved with his season's best at junior world. (There can't be too many skaters who can beat that season's best who aren't already in top 24)
     
  6. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Woot! Way to knock it out of the park, guys!
     
  7. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I hope this means GP for Josh and Jason and that Shotaro will skate as a senior at Nationals next season! Way to go guys!
     
  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    They also medalled at this event last year and skated well enough to be guaranteed at least one spot for this season's GPs. Didn't stop the USFS from keeping them junior.
     
  9. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    Or maybe they chose to stay junior. It might be a good idea for Jason to stay junior and really polish the triple axel. Maybe he can work on adding a quad with less pressure in juniors v. seniors.
     
  10. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Jason Brown has stated that it was his and his coach's decision to stay junior this season - I assume this was in part for Jason to gain consistency on his 3A in competition, which looks like a smart decision now since he won silver and gold on the JGP without landing a clean 3A and landed all 3 of his 3A attempts for the first time at Junior Worlds. He and Josh Farris both got to compete in the Sochi Olympic venue at the JGP Final as well, which they wouldn't have done had they moved up. Farris should gain a ton of confidence by winning the Junior World title on top of his successful Nationals, so I think both made the right decisions for this season, in retrospect.

    It also looks like both guys should be in the top 24 of the ISU World Standings rankings heading into next season - my calculations have the WS order, with 2010-11 points dropped and 2011-12 points reduced to 70%, as: Miner, Abbott, Dornbush, Farris, Brown (good chance to be in top 24), Rippon (will drop out of top 24 for sure), Aaron.

    ETA Season Best total scores (200+) order for the U.S. men heading into Worlds is:
    Miner 235.37, Aaron 234.65, Dornbush 234.04, Farris 228.32, Abbott 227.63, Brown 224.15 - around cut-off for top 24? - Chen 222.00 (returning to JGP), Rippon 210.47, Omori 204.34 (likely returning to JGP), Mahbanoozadeh 203.65.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  11. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    I don't see Josh staying junior next season. He's won everything he possibly could on the junior circuit, he came in fourth at senior nationals and he's in the top 24. If USFSA doesn't submit his name for the senior GP, I would be very surprised. I think a case could be made for keeping Jason junior another season but I could see him moving up too.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    I think the USFSA would be nuts to keep either of them back if they want to go up. Damon Allen's remarks about a "nice end to Josh's junior career" etc suggest that he's going Senior whether the USFSA wants him to or not, and although a case probably could be made for Jason to stay down I think there's nothing to be gained there, he's won pretty much everything except for the JWC, and is that really enough of a carrot to send him round again in the Olympic season?
     
  13. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  14. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I think the emoticon generator just perished from overuse.
     
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    "U.S. men pull off unprecedented sweep in Milan": http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130302&content_id=42192778&vkey=ice_news
     
  16. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Jason would be nuts to stay a Junior. He's already better then most of the top Senior men so why stay as on the JGP?
     
  17. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    I'll bet it was!
     
  18. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Why stay Junior? It's an Olympic year. They have a serious shot at making the team.
     
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Re-posting Jem X's article link from the Junior Worlds forum in Kiss and Cry - Phil Hersh spoke to Jason Brown via phone from Milan: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...n-helps-make-history-20130302,0,1623762.story
     
  20. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Very sensible.
     
  21. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Besides with the US Men not strong doing the quad he can still be competitive. Aaron is the only one who is consistent with quads. Minor is of and on and so is Dornbush. Abbott might as well forget doing them and Rippon i don't think tried one all season. A quad does put Josh and Jason right in the thick of things.
     
  22. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think the USFS was trying to help Dornbush and Rippon get 2 GPs each though this season and maybe encouraged them to stay junior though. After what went down this season, I don't see them holding Farris and Brown back in favor of Rippon and Abbott and the likes of those guys. These two are realistic contenders for the Olympic team and with Farris being 4th at Nationals I think the USFS has now "invested" in him, and they've loved Jason for years now so now that he put up this great score there is no reason for him to be staying in juniors.

    Also Josh seems close on his 4t. It's always round it just seems like he's prone to overcooking it and crashing into the boards. However, given that he's pretty reliable to skate a good program otherwise and hit both axels (which are quite gorgeous, btw) I think he's really in the shake up. Max's quad is consistent. Miner and Dornbush have a success rate a little better than Josh but are by no means masters of it in competition, plus Farris is more consistent with his 3a than both those guys (Dornbush especially, at least the past couple seasons) and his 3a is also of better quality. Rippon and Abbott can't even be counted on to rotate their quad attempts at this point and Rippon wasn't even attempting them in competition this season at all. Mahbanoozadeh, Razzano, and Messing are all capable of the quad but sort of took themselves off the radar screen with Nationals and other subpar results this season - I doubt we'll be seeing them on the GP. Johnson is fab artistically but he just got his 3a secure and hasn't shown signs of a quad yet. So really, Farris is in the shakeup for the team I would say, and if he can start landing that quad in competition more, I think he's a strong contender. Does he train the 4s as well? I was noticing he has a very nice salchow jump and wondered if he had tried training the quad on that jump too. As for Brown he'd probably need to be at least trying for the quad to be the shakeup, but he might not need to be consistently landing it to make the team.
     
  23. missing

    missing Well-Known Member

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    Most of the men of fairly recent vintage who've won the Olympics skated in their previous Olympics (frequently coming in around 4th or 5th).

    If Farris and Brown are serious about the 2018 Olympics, it would help them to skate in the 2014 Olympics first.
     
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I agree but it's also worth noting they would both be only recently 27 for 2022 so that isn't out of the realms of possibility either.
     
  25. kalamalka

    kalamalka Active Member

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    this surprised me, so I looked up results - and it's true - from 88 on, the OGM's finishes in the previous Olympics were:
    4th: Lysacek 2006
    5th: Yagudin 1998; Urmanov 1992; Boitano 1984
    Other: Plushenko 2002 - silver; Petrenko 1988 bronze
    Did not compete: Kulik 1994 - won junior worlds that year.

    On that basis, it would be promising for Patrick Chan (5th in 2010; 4th was Lambiel)
     
  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    The importance of the quad nowadays (and the effects of training a quad and/or multiple quads) may limit the length of the top men's careers... only time will tell.


    ISU's SB total scores listed updated after Junior Worlds:
    Miner #11, Aaron 13, Dornbush 14, Farris 18, Abbott 19, Brown 21, Chen 23, Rippon 26, Omori 28, Mahbanoozadeh 30.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  27. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Since this thread is titled "U.S. MEN 2012-2013", I thought I would re-post here what I posted to an interesting thread in the Trash Can section of the forum:


    Btw, more interesting facts (about the American men only), leastways to me:


    Mark Cockerell ~ 1976 jr. world gold medalist; never medalled at the Olympics (13th in 1984)

    Christopher Bowman ~ 1983 jr. world gold medalist; ditto (7th in 1988 & 4th in 1992)

    Rudy Galindo ~ 1987 jr. world gold medalist, 1986 jr. world silver medalist, 1985 jr. world bronze medalist :hat1: ; never got the chance to skate at the Olympics, yet he did capture bronze at Big Worlds in 1996.

    Todd Eldredge ~ 1988 jr. world gold medalist, 1987 jr. world silver medalist; never medalled at the Olympics (10th in 1992, 4th in 1998, 6th in 2002).

    Michael Weiss ~ 1994 jr. world gold medalist, 1993 jr. world silver medalist; ditto (7th in both 1998 & 2002).

    Johnny Weir ~ 2001 jr. world gold medalist; ditto (5th in 2006 & 6th in 2010)

    Matthew Savoie ~ 2000 jr. world bronze medalist; ditto (7th in in 2006)




    And the following American men never made it to the Olympics, despite medalling at jr. worlds:


    Scott Williams (1982 jr. world gold medalist & 1981 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Erik Larson (1985 jr. world gold medalist)

    Shepherd Clark (1989 jr. world silver medalist)

    Damon Allen (1992 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Jere Michael (1994 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Derrick Delmore (1998 jr. world gold medalist)

    Jordan Brauninger (2004 jr. world bronze medalist)

    Stephen Carriere (2007 jr. world gold medalist)

    Adam Rippon (2008 & 2009 jr. world gold medalist both times) :smokin:


    ONLY 3 American men have medalled at both Jr. Worlds and the Olympics:


    Paul Wylie ~ 1981 jr. world gold medalist & 1992 Olympic silver medalist

    Timothy Goebel ~ 1997 jr. world silver medalist & 2002 Olympic silver medalist

    Evan Lysacek ~ 2001, 2003, 2004 jr. world silver medalist three times & 2010 Olympic gold medalist :smokin:
     
  28. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    ^^ The correlation stats above is depressing. Room on top is very limited.:( Looks like the Russian men have a better track record? Did Brian B and Scott H participate in any Worlds Junior?

    Unless they are prepared to take over the crown of Bionic Skater from Plushenko.:D
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  29. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Boitano was bronze medalist at 1978 Jr. Worlds. NadineWhite did mention that in another post in the Trash Can thread.

    Hamilton was already senior by the time Junior Worlds began in the late 70s.
     
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Actually this is a 2012-13 news thread for the U.S. men - the Trash Can is the main place for historical skating results & discussions.

    ETA:
    This Associated Press article on the U.S. men's medal sweep in Milan references two past instances of comparable success at Junior Worlds: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/03/02/2496386/us-men-sweep-podium-for-1st-time.html
    IFS' Facebook photo of Farris, Brown, and Omori posing with their medals and a big American flag: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0768452538.526601.278550292537&type=3&theater

    Another photo of the sweep :lol:: http://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/308304136355577856/photo/1

    Exhibition performances earlier today in Milan: Shotaro Omori ("Ave Maria"), Jason Brown ("Can't touch this" by MC Hammer :cool:), and Josh Farris ("Ain't no sunshine" cover by Josh Hoge - thanks, TanithandBenFan!).
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013