U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    I love Adam and I also hope he gets well soon. I was glad to see him skate well and do well at nationals. However, maybe I'm in the minority here, but I thought his Incredibles FS was the most boring material he's put out there in years.
     
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  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, this was not a minor clarification to the technical panel, it may have been a chance from last year to this year- but it was in effect all season, he change the program late in the season. It was that the solo change foot spin has to be a sit or a camel and he was going to do an upright spin for his change foot.

    To me, if a message board poster can catch it, it is kind of sad a coach didn't (this thread- see the posts about the send off show. Also interesting to go back in this thread and see people's predictions for nationals, especially how they mention Max Aaron.)


    (Note: I previously thought the error was that he was doing a flying upright, I said that in a previous post. I was wrong there, I rewatched the program and he didn't do a flying upright, but a change foot upright. The icenetwork article confused me because he mentioned a flying upright in a quote, but just in reference to not doing it because some people don't like them.)
     
  3. Catherine M

    Catherine M Well-Known Member

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    You are not alone as I thought Adam's freeskate was pretty meh overall when I saw it at Nationals. It just didn't pop out at me like some of the others did. Not really sure what was missing but it for sure didn't go on my "wow, I love this program" list that I usually compile at the end of an event that I've witnessed in person.
     
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was fun, but a little 'slow' - if that makes sense. Too many pauses in the skating.

    I love Adam though, so as long as he does his gorgeous lutz, I'm happy. (Wish he'd grow his hair out again.)
     
  5. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Although I love Dornbush's skating, I have to say he is extremely lucky to make 4CCs two seasons in a row.
     
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  6. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    That is good news, especially with regards to Alexander Johnson, I think he is a really special skater and could become world class.. he really has the full package ..
     
  7. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I think there's some confusion here. (And some brief confusion in the Abbott/Sato camp)

    Read the IceNetwork article again: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130125&content_id=41165246&vkey=ice_news

    There was no recent change in the rules about what spins are allowed.

    The requirement for the change-foot spin in the men's short program has been the same since 1995: either camel or sit position with one change of foot.

    There has also always been a flying spin required in the short program. Since 1989, for seniors, the position has not been specified. Skaters almost always chose to do either flying camel or some flavor of flying sit.

    A lot of men had a favorite spin position and did either both the flying spin and the change-foot spin in sit position or (less commonly) both in camel position. Plenty also did sit for one and camel for the other.

    A couple of years ago there was a rule change, introduced in the summer in the usual way, which specified that senior men could no longer use the same basic position for both the flying spin and the change-foot spin in the short program.

    After that change, a number of men had to stop doing both flying sit and change-foot sit. Some of them chose to do camel for one of those spins. A handful, Abbott among them, decided to do flying upright instead, which is something that had not been used before the different-positions rule was introduced although it would have been allowed.

    Now look at the article again. I can see why it would be confusing and suggest that the rules had just changed if you read it quickly and weren't familiar with the rules, but if you do know what the rules have been and what Abbott had been doing, it makes sense.

    Remember, last year Abbott had been doing sit-change sit and flying upright.

    At the beginning of this season, he chose to change his layout to camel-change camel and flying sit, which is also legal. But he wasn't earning as high levels as he wanted.

    So they considered going back to last year's also-legal layout.

    Abbott and Sato decided, after the Grand Prix, to try something else -- change-foot upright and flying sit. That meets the requirement that the two spins be in different positions. But it does not meet the requirement -- which has not changed since 1995 -- that the change-foot spin in the senior men's short program be either camel or sit. Whoops!

    It was totally Abbott and Sato's mistake. Evidently they were busy worrying about the levels and the relatively recent can't-repeat-position rule and forgot to check what the actual rules required.

    He tried to change things up this year from what he had been doing last year, but in the fall events he ran into trouble getting the levels. So he tried to change again, this time choosing a layout that didn't meet the requirements. When someone pointed that out to him, he went back to last year's layout.

    Note that all these changes since last year are decisions that Abbott and Sato made, not changes that the ISU made. The short program spin rules have not changed in the last year.
     
  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    This is sad. I am a casual fan and I realised that it was illegal upon my first viewing when he did the short program at one of those shows leading up to Nationals. I pointed it out in one of the threads here and was given to understand that the upright change upright was just for the show.

    How much does Abbott pay Sato for her to not even realize something like that? (then again, back in 2005, Kwan didn't realize there was a 3 second rule for the positions in the spiral sequence to count).
     
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Well I enjoyed the Incredibles fp, because Adam was enjoying it. :) Plus, I love his new costume. Color looks good on Adam. His original fp outfit earlier in the season was too drab and muted, and he didn't seem comfortable with the program yet. Adam's fp was not an easy program for him because it is a completely different style, and he was also adjusting to a new coach and a new training environment. The music is different for Adam too, and while learning the program he was still in the process of re-working his jump technique, in particular on the 3-axel.

    After trial runs of the fp on the GP circuit, it's obvious that Adam and his coach got together with his choreographer, Michael Seibert, to tweak and fine-tune his fp. The changes they made work, and most importantly Adam skated it at Nationals with more conviction and enthusiasm.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
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  10. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    That's pretty poor, to not even bother checking the rules.

    It's not just the coach's responsibility. Abbott should have known the rules or at least checked himself.
     
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Props to you, Marco! :respec: It was my assumption only in that thread that Team Abbott knew which spins were required for the SP, so I turned out to be wrong.

    "Obvious" is an assumption on your part. Though I agree with the "skated ... with more conviction and enthusiasm," I won't be surprised if Rippon returns to his classical roots next season.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  12. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    One of the risks when you self choreograph.
     
  13. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    I've certainly seen coaches make that kind of mistake before. Often they have a lot of skaters at various levels and may not have had anyone at the same level and discipline recently, with the possibility of a rule change during the interim.

    Early-season competitions are good opportunities to discover these kinds of mistakes. Making a change to program content in the middle of a season is risky, especially without looking up the actual rules.

    Yes, there is a lot for coaches to keep track of, including rule changes at various levels each spring/summer and occasional clarifications during the year. IJS does tend to make things more complicated.

    Skaters each have only one level and discipline to worry about. Not all skaters are ready to take that kind of responsibility for their own program content, but an experienced senior competitor probably should be.
     
  14. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think the mistake was such a big deal (but was surprised a message board poster would catch what a coach didn't) until it was explained the rule had been in place since 1995! Keeping up with the year to year rule changes can be tough, and I know coaches don't catch everything (which is why they have tech specialists review programs.)
     
  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Actually, on the NBC broadcast (as I recall) Scott H referred to the fact that Michael Siebert had fine-tuned the Incredibles program with Adam shortly after his last GP event. I heard it, but I don't have it on tape, and I don't remember Scott's exact words.

    In any case, the below vids make it obvious that the program was tweaked, which actually is not an unusual occurrence for most skaters, their coaches and choreographers to do over the course of a season. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcAOJsCQ3_E Cup of China Incredibles


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guzEfgtvd2w Nationals Incredibles
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    ^^^ It was obvious that the program was tweaked for Nationals but not obvious who tweaked it - sorry for not being clearer earlier.

    Rippon mentioned before Nationals that his "free program is filled with many new steps and changes in layout" and the hearsay info I received was that Seibert wasn't involved in re-working the choreography. I've also seen a copy of USFS' media guide for 2013 Nationals, and it listed Rafael Arutunian and Nadia Kanaeva as additional choreographers to Seibert. I have no recollection of what Scott Hamilton said on NBC - I tune him out most of the time. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  17. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    Re Hamilton: So wise to do that. I was listening to NBC's beginning of the countdown to Sochi who was using Hamilton as their commentator. Of course he only focused on the Men and the Women's chances for medals (Evan skated an exhibition number afterwards). I immediately tweeted to him, asking him why he did not mention our best chance for a gold medal there was Meryl Davis and Charlie White.:(
     
  18. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Earlier in the Today Show broadcast, they did a preview and mentioned that Davis and White were best hope for FS gold. In Scott's segment, they probably focused on the FS events that garner the best ratings. Last Olympics, the ice dance was the least watched FS event.
     
  19. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification and sorry that I missed that.
     
  20. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Okay, wow, re Scott's comments. That's a perfect example of how erroneous info gets bandied about, purposely or otherwise. Sorry to ignominiously albeit innocently have been a party to that happening in this instance. :lol: :p

    And, as usual Sylvia, thanks for the heads up! :) I guess it would be nice to be able to develop your faculty in regard to most of what SH blathers during broadcasts. :shuffle: But, Scott and Sandra seem to be fixtures on NBC -- sort of like the statues on Mount Rushmore. They are probably really nice people most of the time, and on occasion I have found them to say a few things worthwhile, but it's too often few and far between. In any case, they've both made exemplary contributions to the sport in other respects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  21. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Evan skated a modified version of the short program he had planned for this season. I guess he will carry it over to next year unless he becomes bored with it.
     
  22. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

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    Well, imagine the regular non-skating fan watching figure skating during the Olympics having trouble figuring out the scoring with singles and pairs where there are actual jumps and spins.. Ask them how they think ice dancing is judged with people just hopping around on the ice and they would be totally clueless..For that reason Ice Dancing will always be the least viewed during the Olympics no matter how strong the team is..
     
  23. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Most of my friends that only watch figure skating during the Olympics do not watch ice dance because they find it boring, and question how "dancing" qualifies as an Olympic sport.
     
  24. YukiNieve

    YukiNieve Active Member

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  25. zaphyre14

    zaphyre14 Well-Known Member

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    I heard that Ross Miner was invited to be the guest skater at the Bay State Games gala exhibition of champions in Williamstown, MA on Feb. 16.
     
  26. apatinar

    apatinar Active Member

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    Honestly , I don't even know how it qualifies as an Olympic sport and I am a huge figure skating fan... I stopped watching dance a long time ago because out of all the disciplines, the results seem to be the most rigged.. There were other threads recently about how people who are not necessarily the best dancers but had the most money were winning medals because they happened to buy the best partners... I don't understand that at all....
    And they want to bring ballroom dancing to the summer Olympics??? I don't know....
     
  27. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

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    Yay for Johnson!! :cheer2: I hope he can get some fall internationals next season.
     
  28. luenatic

    luenatic Well-Known Member

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  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    Thanks! I've started a new Ross Miner thread in GSD with your article link: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...lympic-hopeful-it%92s-a-lot-of-hard-work-quot

    Before he departed for 4CC in Japan, Richard Dornbush spoke about how he has dealt with injury this season: http://blog.pe.com/jim-alexander/2013/02/04/skating-icetowns-dornbush-headed-for-japan/
     
  30. Fudove

    Fudove Member

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    It makes sense that a physical injury could compromise your confidence. Last minute entry was the best senario for Ricky so not to get stressed over expectations. Thanks for the link, I never put the two together.